Riverdale Season 2 (Spoilers)

[Christopher]

It's a show about high school students and murder.

No, it's a show about high school students dealing with the dark and troubling sins of their parents and elders. That doesn't have to be just death all the time, which would be lazy and unimaginative. Even season 1 wasn't just about murder -- the murder of Jason was an ongoing thread, but it was also about drugs, gangs, rape, misogyny, corruption, marital infidelity, music, football, journalism, teen romance, and a lot of other stuff. And most of that is still part of the show.

That's why I think it was a mistake to go right to the Black Hood arc -- it created the false impression that this show was just about murder, which was never the intention.

I thought I was clear: Yes, absolutely, to all of that! Maybe not at this exact point, but certainly by the end of this second season, I'd be disappointed if the show and its world weren't radically and irrevocably upended. An unreasonable hope, you might say? Perhaps, but my hope nonetheless.

Then where the hell would they go in a fifth or sixth season? I mean, come on, this is The CW, which seemingly has an aversion to cancelling shows. Supernatural was planned for 5 years and it's in its 13th. Given that Riverdale is a hit, we should expect it to be in for the long haul.

 

[Gaith]

No, it's a show about high school students dealing with the dark and troubling sins of their parents and elders. That doesn't have to be just death all the time, which would be lazy and unimaginative.

Now you're the one being reductive. Not every Smallville ep, especially in the early years, was directly concerned with Lex's downfall - some even had him acting danged nobly. But the overall arc of the show was always high schooler/hero-in-training Clark and villain-in-the-making Luthor (during the good years, at least).

Then where the hell would they go in a fifth or sixth season?

Hoo boy, though I loved the first season and first half of the second as much as anyone, did I ever not sign up for five or six years or more of this show. Three seasons, in fact, strikes me as ideal. Time enough to do a few apocalypse/magic/flat-out insane storylines, and wrap things up while they're still riding high on the crazy train. As my Mr. Dent meme says...

​

As you say, it doesn't seem at all likely the CW will cancel the show anytime soon... meaning the odds are on the other thing happening. Question is, are we there already?

 

[Christopher]

Now you're the one being reductive. Not every Smallville ep, especially in the early years, was directly concerned with Lex's downfall - some even had him acting danged nobly. But the overall arc of the show was always high schooler/hero-in-training Clark and villain-in-the-making Luthor (during the good years, at least).

What? I'm being the opposite of reductive. I'm saying the focus of the show is extremely broad; it's not just a show about murder. It can be about anything, because the theme of children dealing with their parents' screwups can be applied to virtually every category of human experience.

Hoo boy, though I loved the first season and first half of the second as much as anyone, did I ever not sign up for five or six years or more of this show. Three seasons, in fact, strikes me as ideal.

Like I said, that's a pretty unrealistic thing to expect from a CW show. I see that you acknowledged that point later in your post, but I already put together this whole list before I noticed that, so just for the sake of trivia:

Of the now-concluded CW dramas that haven't been cancelled after one season, The Carrie Diaries, Life Unexpected, and Reaper ran two seasons, while Beauty and the Beast, Hart of Dixie, Nikita, and Reign have gone four seasons, 90210 and Smallville (post-UPN) ran five, Gossip Girl and One Tree Hill (post-UPN) had six, and The Vampire Diaries lasted eight seasons. Of the dramas still on the air, Supernatural is in season 13, Arrow is in season 6, The 100 and The Originals are about to begin season 5 (which will be the latter show's final season), The Flash and iZombie are in or about to begin season 4. Legends of Tomorrow is in season 3 and Supergirl is in its second CW season, and neither one seems in danger of cancellation any time soon. So most of their shows run either just 1 season or at least 4 seasons. And it's just a feeling, but it seems like their ratio of quickly-cancelled shows to long-running shows is lower than most other networks'.

 

[Christopher]

That's twice this season that this show has used a song I've heard in some other show or movie and rather liked -- "Bitter Sweet Symphony" in this case. I can't remember where I heard it before, though.

Well, I guess my hope that they'd avoid murder-related plots for a while was futile.

 

[Christopher]

Whoa. I only just discovered that Tall Boy, Jughead's rival in the Serpents, is played by Scott McNeil, whom I know mainly as a voice artist from shows like Beast Wars: Transformers (Dinobot, Rattrap, Waspinator, Silverbolt) and X-Men Evolution (Wolverine). I knew his voice sounded familiar, but I couldn't place it! He looks a lot younger than he is, so it didn't occur to me that he could be someone who's been around that long. Dang, I wish I'd known sooner.

 

[Gryffindorian]

So does this mean Alice - or Chic - is a murderer, and Betty is an accessory? I'm starting to think Hal is right - Chic spells trouble for the Coopers.

When Archie overheard the two goons plotting against Hiram, I thought it was a test to see how loyal Archie was to the Lodges. But as it turned, Hiram took him seriously, and soon enough Papa Poutine(?) was gone.

 

[Christopher]

So does this mean Alice - or Chic - is a murderer, and Betty is an accessory? I'm starting to think Hal is right - Chic spells trouble for the Coopers.

It will probably turn out to have been an accident, or self-defense.

When Archie overheard the two goons plotting against Hiram, I thought it was a test to see how loyal Archie was to the Lodges. But as it turned, Hiram took him seriously, and soon enough Papa Poutine(?) was gone.

It still could be a test. I suspect it will turn out that Hiram didn't order a hit and someone else killed PP for a different reason. After all, if Hiram had done it, that would mean Archie was indirectly responsible for a murder, and I don't think they'd go there.

 

[Gryffindorian]

^ You're right.

By the way, I should have put a spoiler code in the first paragraph, since I was referring to an upcoming episode.

The final scene reminded me of an old episode of Desperate Housewives, after Eva Longoria's character Gabrielle Solis was seen cleaning up the mess in her living room. Gabby was sexually abused as a child by her stepfather, whom she later confronted. The housewives helped their friend cover up the crime by burying the man's body. A tenacious FBI agent investigated the women, who were later accused ofmurder, but a dear neighbor who was dying of cancer decided to take the fall for them. I believe that was the series finale.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Chic looks like a psycho. That weird smirk on his face was creepy. Is he the real Black Hood? I'm glad it turned out Adams was a fake FBI guy because an FBI recruiting a minor as an informant without parental permission was shady as hell.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, I figured all along that Adams would turn out to be a fake agent, although I didn't predict who his real employer would turn out to be.

I think this show has gone too dark too fast. What I liked about the first season was how decent, kind, and well-intentioned the four lead teenagers managed to be even while everyone around them was mired in tawdriness and crime. Now, they've all gotten compromised along with the adults.

 

[marillion]

Yeah... I agree with you on that, Christopher.... While all around them was falling apart, our four heroes remained mostly above it all... To a certain extent that's still true... Veronica is still that way, as she tries to suss out her parent's activities.. And Archie THINKS he's doing the right thing... Jug's gone down the dark side by standing up for his "people"... But Betty... Wow... She's gone way dark... And now she's paying the price for it.. It's ripping her apart.

I figured Adams to be a fake agent as well... The real FBI isn't going to work like that... Especially not in this day and age.

 

[Christopher]

Well, that's cheeky. An episode of the Greg Berlanti-produced Riverdale has the characters going to see the premiere of an upcoming real-world movie, Love, Simon -- which is directed by Greg Berlanti. And immediately afterward, there's a commercial for said movie.

The "Lodge lodge" stuff was kind of fun. It was kind of a relief to see the core foursome getting away from the crazy that's been dragging them down and reaffirm their friendship, working through their issues and forgiving and accepting each other. At least until it all fell apart in the penultimate act there.

And I loved how quick Jughead was to accept the "logic" that kissing Veronica would solve everything. I mean, who can blame him? And it was fun to hear the writers (through Jughead) throwing shade on their own decision to have B&V gratuitously kiss in the pilot.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

So Chic is not Betty's brother. So then who is he really? And where is her real brother? Chic is just really creepy. Clifford Blossom had a twin brother who seems to be a bad guy as well. Poor Cheryl.

 

[Christopher]

Clifford Blossom had a twin brother who seems to be a bad guy as well. Poor Cheryl.

I read a review speculating that maybe "Claudius" is actually Clifford -- that Clifford faked his death by hanging his identical twin and is now pretending to be that identical twin. Although the problem with that theory is that identical twins have different fingerprints.

It's a bit depressing that Cheryl is starting to seem like the most noble and decent of the lead characters. I'm all in favor of her becoming a better person, but the core foursome have all become increasingly compromised this season.

 

[Gryffindorian]

At last Hiram Lodge's plans for Riverdale are revealed. He says he wants to build a private prison on the site of the old Southside High; that's why he's been busy buying up properties all over town - the trailer park, Pop's diner. He almost succeeds in convincing Fred Andrews to run for mayor, but upon learning of Hiram's intentions, Fred backs out.

It's not like Archie to side with Hiram, especially since his dad at first was enthusiastic about forming a partnership with the Hodges while Archie himself initially questioned Hiram's motives.

 

[Christopher]

It's not like Archie to side with Hiram

That's kind of been the point of his arc this season. The shooting of his dad by the Black Hood has made him afraid and given him a need to feel strong and in control, and it's left him susceptible to the temptation of what Hiram offers. He's not acting like himself because his fear and pain have led him astray.

 

[Gryffindorian]

He's definitely shown his loyalty to Hiram. I was thinking in the sense of building a prison in town. It was a fact not immediately revealed, but when it was eventually, not even Fred liked the idea. Betty and Jughead wanted to publish an article on Hiram, but Principal Weatherbee didn't allow it. Archie, on the other hand, unquestioningly accepted Hiram's plans. But like you said, he's doing it out of fear.

 

[Christopher]

I suppose maybe it's social commentary. Archie Andrews is the archetypal All-American teenager (never mind that he's played by a New Zealander), so maybe he's symbolizing Americans whose fear and insecurity makes them vulnerable to corrupt, rich, and powerful people manipulating them into supporting creeping authoritarianism, oppression, and policies that work against their own best interests and undermine their communities.

 

[Gaith]

The shenanigans of the series' writing team remind me of an exchange from The Matrix Revolutions:

Neo: I know it’s difficult to understand…
Roland: No, it’s not – you’re out of your goddamn mind.​

An ex-con, building a private prison? Don't big corporations do that? And Archie going all-in on mobster-dom?!

 

[Christopher]

An ex-con, building a private prison? Don't big corporations do that?

Corporations like Lodge Industries, of which Hiram is the CEO? Yes, he's an ex-con, but it was for embezzlement and fraud, and he was acquitted. It's not like he knocked over a liquor store or something.