Riverdale Season 2 (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by Samhain Who Cares, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. John Clark

    John Clark Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Location:
    There
    I guess with Cheryl, it's because V was doing the waitress gig, though given the history there, I too would have expected V to be filling in as one of the Pussycats.

    I did enjoy the episode, but thought the ending was a bit grim and not just because of the shooting. I do hope we see Tom Mcbeath back at some point. Liked Betty confronting (and beating) Cheryl too.
     
  2. Samhain Who Cares

    Samhain Who Cares Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Gryffindorian
    So actor Ross Butler, who played Reggie Mantle in the first season, has been replaced by another actor, Charles Melton. The latter is not as douchey as the other guy. He brought up a good point. "Only a dumbass lunatic brings a baseball bat into a gunfight."
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Oh, I dunno about that. The Mythbusters showed that in some cases, "bringing a knife to a gunfight" could actually work -- at close enough range, the knife-wielder could close on the gun-wielder and attack before the latter could complete the process of drawing, aiming, and firing. Logically, a bat-wielder could do so as well -- and a bat would have greater reach than a knife, so it might be even easier.
     
    Samhain Who Cares likes this.
  4. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Catching up on last week's episode...

    - Oh man, the Blossoms' greenhouse dining room made me laugh out loud! Classic Riverdale.

    - The ladies in those yellow Pop's shirts were... quite fetching.

    - Much respect to the show for renting those classic cars for a three-second period visual gag at the very start. This series takes its production incredibly seriously.

    - I guess Mrs. Andrews went back to Chicago?

    - Well, that shooting at the end was straight out of Zodiac.

    I can't quite decide if the Pussycats are by far the worst aspect of the show, or right in line with its campy absurdity. On the one hand, the cat ear headbands will never fail to be head-bangingly stupid, and the name "Pussycats", especially when applied to high school girls, is woefully dated. On the other hand, the show doesn't seem to wink at us with any of the Pussycats stuff the way it does with the Blossom household, leading me to think the producers actually want us to take the group seriously. But I can't! That said, the "Milkshake" cover was awesomely stupid, and also campy, I guess. But the show keeps positioning Josie herself as some self-evident star with relatively comparable power to her mother, and I just can't take that seriously.

    Maybe the murderer will be a mini/"pod" story arc, a la S4 of Agents of SHIELD?

    Indeed, I've been wondering how long the show can maintain its excellence, especially given the inherent precariousness of teenage-hood and the full-season order. After all this intrigue and murder, surely the kids applying to colleges and Archie doing his music thing will seem hopelessly anticlimactic? And given the fairly short time span of the narrative (have we even reached the school year's halfway point?), it certainly doesn't seem as though our leads have been getting any homework done...

    Now you've got me picturing a Daybreakers/Red Dawn mashup, where vampires take over the world, forcing our teen heroes to join an anti-monster militia, and turning the series into something more like The 100 (which, full disclosure, I haven't seen) than even the dark high school show it started off as - and I would be totally in favor of that. :bolian:
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    They finally revealed Jughead's full name, Forsythe Pendleton Jones III! I was wondering when and if they'd get around to that. I'm surprised it was so casual.

    A number of Easter egg references here. Red Circle was the name of Archie Comics's superhero publishing imprint in the 1970s-80s, whose characters included a revival of the 1940s vigilante character the Black Hood, who's been given a rather dark twist here. The drug "Jingle Jangle" is named for a song from Filmation's The Archies. And I'm pretty sure the gang "the Goolies" is a reference to Filmation's The Groovie Goolies, a variety-musical show featuring comedy versions of Dracula, Frankenstein, the Wolf Man, etc., which was a segment on, and later a spinoff from, The Sabrina the Teenage Witch Show.

    Hm. Between this and a version of Isis showing up on Legends of Tomorrow, Berlanti Productions is giving us a bit of a Filmation renaissance lately.
     
  6. Samhain Who Cares

    Samhain Who Cares Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Gryffindorian
    Archie forms the Red Circle, a vigilante group. I didn't see that coming, although I have to admit, he has been hypervigilant of late after his father was shot by the Black Hood. As Hiram Lodge suggested, Archie had to take a more proactive approach. Sheriff Keller was perceptive while the school principal didn't think anything was harmful about a student club.

    I wonder what Hiram's motives are for goading Archie into taking an aggressive step toward stopping a serial criminal instead of letting the authorities do their jobs. From what we can tell, the Black Hood sees the denizens of Riverdale as hypocrites, drug addicts, fornicators, "sinners." Could he be a Serpent? Highly doubtful, considering they're not saints.

    I thought it was refreshing to see Kevin cruising, albeit in the woods at night. I personally have never tried it either online or in person, but the whole point is that in a small town, gays have fewer options. Betty wasn't completely closed-minded for scolding him; she was just concerned for his safety, but I guess he didn't see it that way.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I don't think Principal Weatherbee was actually that clueless -- he just supported what Archie was doing and was covering for him with the sheriff.


    It occurred to me that maybe Hiram is behind the Hood, trying to create terror and disruption in Riverdale in order to achieve some long-term goal. Maybe he wants to drive property values down so he can buy up land cheaply. Maybe he wants to breed enough chaos that the mayor or the sheriff will be voted out and he can install some puppet in their place. If he's not behind the Hood, at least he may see this as an opportunity he can exploit to destabilize the town.


    Yeah. I think Kevin's misjudging Betty, but I can understand why it feels that way to him. He's probably faced a lot of judgment and hostility from more closed-minded sorts, and Betty's acceptance of who he is has always been a source of comfort. So having her question his activities feels like she's questioning his identity, and that makes him feel like he's lost the safe space her friendship provided. Hopefully he'll come around and realize she was just concerned about the circumstances, though hopefully she'll also realize how her disapproval made him feel.
     
  8. Samhain Who Cares

    Samhain Who Cares Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Gryffindorian
    I thought about that as well, that Hiram was somewhat linked to the Black Hood, though I could not come up with a specific intent for all the machinations. You give some valid points.
     
  9. Samhain Who Cares

    Samhain Who Cares Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Gryffindorian
    Archie was foolish and reckless for going to the Southside and spraypainting Red Circle graffiti to try to taunt the Black Hood. If he didn't have a gun, he wouldn't be so tough, but I guess that was the point. I was thinking he should have stood down the moment Principal Weatherbee told him (I'm paraphrasing), "You need to put an end to this, or else."

    What I did like was that Veronica was reasonable. She suspected her father Hiram poured poison into Archie's ears, which he clearly denied by saying he didn't remember what they talked about. She supported Archie and revived the Red Circle movement, but she didn't necessarily follow him blindly. Even she realized Archie was putting himself in danger by carrying a gun and trying to hunt down the serial shooter/killer.

    I found it rather surprising that Betty was contacted by the Black Hood, who told her in a note that he was doing all this for her. That got me thinking, could the person originally have been from the Northside? Of course, it's only natural to blame the Serpents and Soutsiders, since the targets are people from Archie's part of the community.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    This show is getting way too dark. Even without any murder attempts this week, we've got psychological torture, gang initiations, friendships and romances being ruined, illegal drug use, and even attempted date rape. It doesn't feel fun anymore.

    I'm starting to suspect the Black Hood is Hal Cooper. He knows way too much not to be someone really close to Betty. And he's determined to control Betty's life and decide who she should and shouldn't associate with, which is a twisted version of how a father might think.

    I don't use custom ringtones, so I want to make sure of something: Betty would choose her own settings for what ringtones go with each caller, right? So "Lollipop" would've been her choice, not the Black Hood's? It seems weird, but I'm guessing she chose something innocuous-sounding as camouflage in case he called while her family or friends were around.

    In the comics, apparently, Nick St. Clair was a minor character who was a "bad boy" love interest for Veronica, to give Archie some competition.
     
  11. Samhain Who Cares

    Samhain Who Cares Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Gryffindorian
    ^Correct, the cell phone owner gets to choose his or her ringtone for a specific caller. But who's to say that's not her default ringtone for all calls.

    As for Betty's dad being the Black Hood, I can see how he feels a sense of connection with her, but didn't he threaten to harm Polly and Alice if Betty didn't do what he asked? Hal would have to be pretty disturbed to commit these crimes and put his own daughter through hell.
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Her phone didn't have that ringtone when the Hood called her at the end of last week's episode (at least, I'm sure I'd remember it if it had, because it's hard to miss). So she must've assigned that tone to his number after he called.


    Something like 2/3 of murders are committed by family members of the victims. Women are twice as likely to be murdered by a spouse or lover (or perhaps a father) than by a stranger. And remember, Hal was outraged that Polly was carrying babies with "Blossom blood," and Alice kicked him out because of it. So he could have reason to condemn both of them as "sinners."

    And abusers put their family members through hell all the time, often in the belief (or with the excuse) that it's "for their own good." We see that in how the Hood is talking to Betty -- he's forcing her to cut off her relationships with "unworthy" people because he wants to decide what's best for her.

    Of course, if Hal really were abusive in that way, he probably would've been tormenting his family in secret for years, rather than just now starting to do it in this roundabout way. So that's a point against my idea.

    EDIT: There's another possibility that The A.V. Club points out in its review: Maybe Hal is pretending to be the Black Hood in order to manipulate/control Betty and punish Alice. Which could explain why the two letters' handwriting didn't match. That's actually a more plausible hypothesis than my own, I think. I mean, we've already had one of this show's dads turn out to be a murderer. And it would mean that he wouldn't actually murder Nick at Betty's request, which would mean her character wouldn't be irreversibly tainted by being consciously responsible for someone's death.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
    Samhain Who Cares likes this.
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I said last week that the show didn't feel fun anymore, but this episode brought the fun back. It got pretty wild and zany in the lengths it went to, and there were some fun character moments too. I mean... the way to save the Serpents from a takeover by the nastier drug-dealing gang is... a drag race? And Betty just happens to be a master mechanic? And Cheryl as the starter was priceless. Oh, yes, and the cold open ending with the police just storming into the high school like the Untouchables raiding a speakeasy -- it was just so ridiculously over the top, and that's what we love about this show.

    The story about Nick St. Clair was timely -- it showed how society and institutions resist believing women's charges of sexual assault, or consider them less important than other matters. And in that, as well as the other plots, we saw the return of what I like about this show and what was missing last week: the teen heroes banding together to pursue justice and/or solutions when their parents' agendas and self-absorption make things worse. Although I'm uneasy with Veronica being so okay with Nick being hurt in a car accident than Hiram presumably arranged. She should be better than that.

    If the Black Hood did kill the Sugarman at the end there, as seemed to be the case, I guess that debunks the theory that Hal is calling Betty and only pretending to be the Hood to manipulate her.
     
  14. Samhain Who Cares

    Samhain Who Cares Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Gryffindorian
    I wasn't paying that much attention throughout the whole episode, but toward the end Betty said to the Black Hood over the phone when she revealed his identity, "Can you feel me breathing down your neck?" It sounded as if she had the upper hand. How so?

    Did the Sugarman have ties to the Serpents?

    Also, the St. Clairs gave Mrs. Blossom "hush money." That didn't make sense, considering how wealthy the Blossoms are.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    She's playing mind games with him, turning the tables. It was more an intimidation tactic than a statement of fact. She intends to find him and stop him, and that was her declaration that she's coming for him. Dark Betty is in the house.


    It was the Goolies (Ghoulies?) who were selling the drugs, not the Serpents.


    They've no doubt hit some rough waters lately what with their patriarch being exposed as a murderer, their ancestral business being exposed as a drug-dealing front, and their ancestral mansion being burned to the ground. Besides, if there's one thing rich people will do anything to get, it's even more money.

    Really, though, it's less about the money and more about "handling" the matter in a quiet way without public scandal. The payoff is a token gesture. To rich people, everything can be bought and sold, and all human misery can be reduced to a dollar value. The payoff was the St. Clair family's "compensation" for their son's assault on the Blossoms' daughter, a way of settling the debt.
     
    Samhain Who Cares likes this.
  16. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Location:
    In many different universes, simultaneously.
    The timing in this season is bizarre. They pull Cheryl out of the river in the middle of winter, and it's like spring just a short time later.

    That's a character trait that was established in many of the comics. Archie would go to her to fix his jalopy, and she'd be so happy to do him that favor because she could spend time with him, and then she'd be disappointed when he'd say, "Thanks, Bets, you're the greatest - now I can take Veronica to the rock concert."


    I binge watched the last episode of Season 1 and all of Season 2 that's available on Netflix.

    Regarding the comedy in the comic books... not all of them were intentionally funny. The "Archie at Riverdale High" comics had occasional bits of humor, but they were more dramatic, and were meant as "message" stories or morality plays. There were stories about job loss, depression, relationships and dating, natural disasters, various kinds of crimes - one story in particular that I still remember involved Archie and Jughead being suspected of being drug dealers, since the cops caught them taking a package of drugs from a garbage can where the real dealer dropped it (they were curious about what was in the package since the guy who dropped it in there kept acting so furtively).


    I still can't stand those horrible lips that look glued to Cheryl's face. They don't look at all natural, and the lipstick colors make her look like a clown.
     
  17. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Lancaster, PA
    Wait. You have a bad guy named "The Sugar Man" and you don't seize the opportunity to reprise "Sugar, Sugar"?
     
    Timewalker likes this.
  18. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    An unavoidable consequence of shooting a short in-universe time frame across multiple real-world seasons. I suppose we're still heading into winter, this is just a particularly warm snap. And, wasn't last winter an especially cold one for the Vancouver area?

    Before last week's episode, my favorite Black Hood theory was Betty's long-lost brother - it'd be someone she'd recognize, but also someone removed enough to have all kinds of crazy, murderous grudges. That's still my best guess, actually; the other obvious candidate would seem to be Hal (and since when did he and Hiram go way back?! Hiram's not a local guy!), but having her own father psychologically torture her to that extent would be nuts.

    Yep, "When a Stranger Calls" was one of the darkest hours of TV I've seen, but it was also very well-done. I love the show's camp, but genuine darkness like that (once in a while, at least) keeps things tethered, so we can enjoy such glorious silliness as a drag race for high school turf without getting too carried away. And Jughead's got an undeniable point that, while he may not have made him (Jughead) complicit in his tip-off to the cops, the Ghoulies now have serious motive for personal revenge against him. Speaking of which, anyone else getting a James Franco vibe off the Ghoulie leader?

    (And still not even a mention of Nana Blossom?!)

    The cut from Veronica's "so, what is your insane reason" to Betty guiltily yet contentedly slurping the remains of a sundae was pure gold.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Well, this was a wild one. The first segment was evidently setting up next year's Sabrina show, hinting at eerie things going on in Greendale. I laughed out loud when I saw the writing on the side of the crate -- it came from H.P. Lovecraft at Miskatonic University! Plus we get Tony Todd as a creepy and melodramatic old stranger!

    And holy crap, Cheryl, that's sick even for you! I should've known she couldn't just be friendly and grateful toward Josie, she'd become all stalkery and possessive about it.

    Pop's role this season seems to be the guy who makes melodramatic and ominous pronouncements. Why would the Hood call him to deliver his message instead of sending a letter to the Mayor or Alice or something? And why would Pop scare his customers by repeating it? This show is so over-the-top and silly, but of course, that's why we love it.
     
  20. Samhain Who Cares

    Samhain Who Cares Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Gryffindorian
    Yeah, I'd say Cheryl is pretty twisted. I had forgotten that she was saved by Josie and the others from being assaulted, which is why she was acting so nice and friendly toward Josie.

    Betty's obsession with the Sheriff was ridiculous. Breaking and entering, really? At least she and Ronnie did uncover a secret affair between the Sheriff and Mayor McCoy. Why keep it a secret anyway? In today's world, no one would bat an eyelash.