Riverdale Season 2 (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by Samhain Who Cares, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Samhain Who Cares

    Samhain Who Cares Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Wednesdays, 8 PM, The CW

    Tonight's season premiere shed little light on the cliffhanger finale last season. Fred Andrews survives the shooting at Pop's Diner. Archie and company have reason to believe that it was a hit and not a robbery. Veronica suspects her mother was involved. Jug asks The Snakes to do some digging around, but all they do is bring a guy into his living room, all bloodied and beaten. Cheryl admonishes an injured Mrs. Blossom that things will be different from now on. Hiram Lodge comes home.

    Meanwhile, in another town, the boy-loving Ms. Grundy is brutally attacked and murdered in her own home.

    What say you?
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Pretty effective. I still love Veronica. She resisted the temptation to do the melodramatic contrived-conflict thing and leave when Archie told her to, and instead did the stronger, kinder thing and stood by him. What I love about this show is how solidly good the core foursome are even in this town full of darkness and sinister motives.

    Lots of Archie Comics nods here. Jughead's bottomless appetite and love of burgers finally makes an appearance. Archie's superhero identity Pureheart the Powerful (yes, that's a thing) gets a namedrop. "Miss Grundy" was murdered in Greendale, which is Sabrina the Teenage Witch's hometown (which is bound to raise speculation about whether the upcoming Chilling Adventures of Sabrina CW series is in continuity with Riverdale). And apparently the Black Hood is one of Archie Comics' superhero properties, although it's never been crossed over with the Archie characters themselves. This guy's a murderer rather than a hero, so it's odd, but they did stress that it was a "black hood" instead of a ski mask and it looks the same as the comics character's mask: http://www.cbr.com/riverdale-black-hood-season-2/

    For that matter, the opening scene with the cast members going about their lives and getting phone calls about the tragedy is a recreation of a sequence that happened in the comics earlier this year in Mark Waid's "Over the Edge" storyline, although it was a different character who was hospitalized in that case: https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2017...tinues-in-archie-21-check-out-a-preview-here/
     
  3. John Clark

    John Clark Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just starting on the episode now. I wasn't sure I was going to like it, but ended up binge watching the first season and got hooked.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Yeah, it's surprisingly addictive.
     
  5. Samhain Who Cares

    Samhain Who Cares Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't know there were superheroic elements included in the comics (since I don't follow them). If Sabrina The Teenage Witch has a crossover, then that will introduce supernatural elements into the show. It gets even better!
     
  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, yes and no. In the mainstream comics about Archie, Jughead, etc., they're just teenagers getting up to comedy antics with dating, school, and the like (although the current mainstream title has gotten more dramatic and sophisticated) -- aside from occasional crossovers with Sabrina. But there have been a number of offbeat variations over the decades, including one that turned the characters into comedy superheroes, and one that made Jughead an agent of a time police agency. And there have been out-of-continuity inter-company crossovers like Archie Meets the Punisher and Archie vs. Predator (yes, really).

    But Archie Comics, the company, has occasionally tried to diversify its titles beyond comedy and get in on the superhero trend. So they've published various superhero titles that were independent of the Archie continuity, and apparently the Black Hood is one of the characters they've owned since the '40s and have recently made one of their periodic attempts to revive.
     
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  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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  8. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Commodore Commodore

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    They have, or have had, the license for the Shield, the Human Fly, and that group of superheroes. I think they will occasionally put out something to keep up the license/trademark, but for the last few decades they haven't put a lot of effort into anything ongoing.

    Interesting note about the term "superhero": the copyright is co-owned by Marvel Comics and DC Comics. All other publishers the use the term on their covers either pays a usage fee or gets a C&D.
     
  9. Samhain Who Cares

    Samhain Who Cares Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm trying to imagine KJ Apa in a spandex suit. Oh my! :hugegrin:
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    It's a trademark, not a copyright. Copyrights are on a single complete work, starting from the date of publication and expiring after a certain number of years; trademarks are on specific, distinguishing words or images like titles, logos, character names, catchphrases, etc., and last as long as they continue to be exercised.

    And you're right that it only applies to use on covers, or more specifically in titles, logos, and cover or promotional images. Others are free to use the term within their stories. I used the word "superhero" plenty in my novel Only Superhuman, and there was no legal difficulty there. (Although we also used it on the back cover blurbs and the plot description on the inside flap, so I don't think the trademark is enforced all that much.)
     
  11. marillion

    marillion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, it got steamy between Arch and V pretty quick (and literally)... Good start for the season.. Plus Jughead's insatiable appetite makes an appearance. REALLY starting to dislike Veronica's mom, but I think Veronica's laying it on a little thick with her.

    As for bringing in Sabrina.. in this day and age, wiccans and witches aren't that big a deal any more.. They could easily bring in Sabrina and have her just be a teen who happens to be a wicca and does spell casting.. Then, coincidentally or not, things happen around town... Doesn't HAVE to be supernaturally caused.. But maybe...
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's what disturbs me about the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina show they're developing. I gather that in the namesake comic, and in their plans for the show, Sabrina's witchcraft is overtly linked to Satanism, and that strikes me as an outdated and disrespectful handling of the subject given how many practicing Wiccans there are these days.
     
  13. marillion

    marillion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly... But that's the thing.. "Big Satan" sells... Wicca, as an accepted part of society doesn't.. Look at The Craft.. Schlocky movie at best, but it took witchcraft and made it this evil thing that girls do to get back at boys and make money...
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    But that was over 20 years ago. I would've expected attitudes to have changed by now.

    And even then, not all portrayals of witchcraft were negative. Charmed began only two years later. And there were Willow and Tara on Buffy.
     
  15. marillion

    marillion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Fair points all.. But with media the way it is, especially now.. The kinder, gentler side of things rarely is as financially popular... I don't think Charmed or Buffy, the way they were then, could make it today... Heck look at Trek: DSC...

    I was listening to the SyFy Podcast from last week and they were discussing TNG and what made it great.. There were goofy episodes.. Funny episode.. Just downright silly episode.. That is what made TNG great.. In my opinion, you could never do that today and have it be taken seriously.. DSC has a hard edge to it.. It will never have an episode where the characters are dressed up like Robin Hood and his Merry Men where they riff on Animal House and the best line of the episode is where the Klingon says "I am not a Merry Man!"... Maybe I'm jaded.. And I know you're a writer and more closely tied into this sort of thing.. But culture now is just beaten over the head with the dark side of things in a very serious manner... ( And I realize the Marvel Universe superhero movies can contradict this, but) Hell, even my favorite horror movie, Prince of Darkness, which I found HORRIFYING at the time, had some very silly elements to it... If they remade that now, all the character and comedic elements of it would be removed and we'd be beaten over the head with SATAN SATAN SATAN... Don't get me wrong.. I love dark.. I really do.. In fact, I think sometimes there is too much lightheartedness in the Marvel movies.. Or maybe that's just the formulaic way they are not being made.. But still.. I love a good horror movie.. But I still think things like Buffy and Charmed or even TNG, the way they were made then, would not stand a chance now.. Supergirl, Flash.. Maybe Arrow buck the trend to an extent, but even they tend to be darker... Or maybe it's just the better production values... I dunno.. I'm blathering on... Drinks anyone?

    Sorry.. It's been a long week..
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    On the other hand, look at Supergirl and The Flash. Or the relatively upbeat Wonder Woman being more successful than the previous, darker DCEU movies. Not everything is grim and gritty these days.

    For that matter, The CW is developing a Charmed reboot for the 2018-19 season -- the same season Chilling Adventures of Sabrina is planned to appear on the same network. So somebody there thinks Charmed can still work.


    The culture has been into "the dark side of things" for decades now. If anything, I think the pendulum is swinging back the other way these days. Look how much fondness there is lately for the Adam West Batman, which used to be treated with scorn. Look at the shows I mentioned above. People these days are getting more receptive to upbeat stories. It's when times get darkest that people have the most need for hope and optimism.
     
  17. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Commodore Commodore

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    That is exactly correct, my mistake. Especially as I used the proper term in my previous paragraph.
     
  18. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Looks as though the CWTV.com player has been streamlined and improved, as it seemed to run much more smoothly than the old one did. Sweet!

    Anyhow, fun premiere! So glad Fred isn't dead (all his visions were great), and though I imagine Archie and Veronica will likely break up at some point, I'm very much digging them together. Though, did anyone else catch that it seems Archie called Betty and not his girlfriend about Fred being shot? Maybe it didn't mean anything, but I definitely noticed. And the hospital interiors were classic Riverdale timelessness. (By the way, it sure didn't take long for Betty's worry that Jughead's involvement with the serpents would get someone hurt to come true.)

    I was so surprised to see "Ms. Grundy" return that I was genuinely startled when she was killed, even though Jughead's narration had set it up (and then I wondered if she'd graduated from taking advantage of boys to murdering them). I further assume it means that Hiram Lodge didn't put the hit on Fred, as that would have been too obvious.

    Given the success the CW has had with the Arrowverse, I can't imagine it won't be. And I still haven't seen Twin Peaks, a major inspiration for this series, but magical stuff happens there, right? So that could be a way of bringing weirdness to the... "Riververse"?
     
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  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I needed it to watch The Flash this morning, since my local CW station lost picture for a while last night and I couldn't watch it then.


    Archie and Betty have been best friends since childhood. It would be an ingrained reflex to call her (or Jughead) first. Also, that means Betty has known Fred for a lot longer than Veronica has, so that makes sense.


    I'd call it more surreal and supernatural stuff. The word "magic," technically, refers to human beings deliberately harnessing supernatural forces as a sort of tool, e.g. casting spells and curses or doing rituals to summon things. Magic is the mystical equivalent of technology and science, the use of knowledge of mystical forces to control and direct them for human ends. The supernatural/surreal elements of Twin Peaks are mysterious and not under anyone's control. There's an apparent demon or two, there are a couple of weird beings who appear in dreams and visions, there's "Another Place" where those beings reside along with the occasional human soul, there's a lady who appears to gain insights from talking to her log, and the owls, reportedly, are not what they seem; but there aren't any witch covens casting spells or sorcerors summoning mystic forces or demon hunters with ancient books of lore. It's just a quiet little town where weird stuff happens. (At least, the original series was like that. I haven't seen the revival.)
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Hmm... I don't think I like where this season is going. Last season, just one murder was enough to roil the town for a whole season. Now we've had one attempted murder, one successful murder, and two more probable murders in three consecutive episodes. Having every single episode end with an attempted or actual homicide is overdoing the shock value and cheapening the impact of death as a storytelling device. And where do they go from here in future seasons? How many beloved comics characters can they afford to kill off? (Although apparently Aguirre-Sacasa killed off quite a few of them in Afterlife with Archie, and turned them into zombies, no less.)

    Otherwise, aside from Archie's angst, it was a pretty fun episode, with Betty going to any lengths to save both Pop's and F.P. Jones. I would've expected Veronica to be the one to beat Cheryl at her own game, but Betty's tougher than she looks.

    Why was Cheryl filling in as a Pussycat instead of Veronica, who's done it twice before and was standing right there?