RIP Richard Datin, one of the fathers of the Enterprise

[Sir Rhosis]

Really, styles are cyclical, hair and clothing. All three men's hair and clothing would be fairly unremarkable today, even the workman's overalls or the striped shirt (as opposed to if they had been phtographed in, say, 1974/75). If one supered them and the model over the modern picture with enough skill to adjust for the different lighting, photo grain, etc., I doubt anything would be immediately noted as an anachronism.

We sure have strayed. I would hope Mr Datin wouldn't mind the interesting converation he has inspired.

Sir Rhosis

 

[scotpens]

Smog varies a lot depending on the weather. Actually, the smog today in L.A. isn't as bad as it was, as there's been some effort (not entirely successful) to curb it. Still, some days it looks pristine, the next it's like looking through stretched nylons.

Yes, the air in L.A. is actually a bit cleaner than it used to be, thanks to strict California smog regulations on cars. But on some days, coming over the Sepulveda Pass as you head north on the 405 freeway, you can still see that brown layer hanging over the Valley. The smog doesn't bother most of us native Angelenos, though. We're used to breathing chunky-style air.

 

[GSchnitzer]

Here's a shot with a focal length that's a bit closer to the original shot:

You can see that the Foursquare Media City Church is pretty clear, and the Verdugo Foothills look "closer" because of the lens.

Where's the pic taken? I love the time capsule. The cars, the bell sign, the striped top, etc.

The cars and the old Bell System logo certainly date the picture, but have men stopped wearing striped shirts?

yes

No, but seriously - the change in how far you can (can't) see! I have never been to LA and only heard about the smog. I walked down the street via Google maps, and that sure does seem to be the same church about a block to the NE. Granted the roof line is obstructed by a corner strip mall, but the bell tower is still visible - just barely. And the mountains seem miles removed from their location in the first pic. Very interesting.

"TrekAce's" pic is much clearer. Was it just a smoggier day on Google Maps pictaking day? Does it vary a lot. I am in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan: mainly woods with a few small cities (mine: 15,000 pop.) though I did grow up in the D. I am ignorant about the realities of smog and LA life.

 

[Shaw]

An average day in Southern California along the coast starts with a marine layer hanging over everything that usually burns off by mid-morning... highs in the upper 70s, lows in the upper 60s, with a low in the low 60s over night.

And now lets look at the weather around the rest of the country.

 

[plynch]

I was actually wondering about focal length, but I know nothing about such.

And I was wrong about the striped top, ok!!

I remembered it as a striped 60's pullover top with a ribbed collar (not unlike some starship tunics we know), but it is a horizontally striped button down shirt. I was conflating it with a top worn by some behind the scenes guy in a photo in Trek 365 (I think Plato's Steps, but I don't have the book handy). I freely admit I shoulda scrolled up and checked the shirt. Forgive.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Regarding smog in Southern California, pity the poor folks in San Bernardino. No only do they have to deal with their own pollution, they also get all the crap that gets blown in from Los Angeles. About a month after I first got to Norton AFB, there was finally a clear day, and I got a look at the previously invisible San Bernardino Mountains. Scared the crap out of me.

 

[Keith1701]

As DS9Sega has indicated, Richard Datin's old shop was located at 104 East Providencia Avenue in Burbank.

Here's a recent shot from the exact same angle--from the folks over at the HobbyTalk forum:

Rest in Peace, Richard, you will be missed by all STAR TREK FANS!!

 

[M'Sharak]

Regarding smog in Southern California, pity the poor folks in San Bernardino. No only do they have to deal with their own pollution, they also get all the crap that gets blown in from Los Angeles. About a month after I first got to Norton AFB, there was finally a clear day, and I got a look at the previously invisible San Bernardino Mountains. Scared the crap out of me.

I don't know when you were at Norton but, unless you were here during the 60s and early 70s, you never even saw the truly scary air. What's passed for smog since 1980 or so is only a weak imitation of its former murky and toxic glory.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I got there in October, 1987, so I guess I should count my lucky stars.

 

[plynch]

So it seems, rather, that the neighborhood is well overdue for maintenance.

As is every other bit of infrastructure and much of our once common life together. "Taxes are the price we pay for civilization." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

 

[Haggis and tatties]

As DS9Sega has indicated, Richard Datin's old shop was located at 104 East Providencia Avenue in Burbank.

Here's a recent shot from the exact same angle--from the folks over at the HobbyTalk forum:

Its amazing how the old cars in the top picture look more futuristic compared the bland boxes we drive about in today in the bottom picture.

But anyway R.I.P Mr Datin.

 

[Tallguy]

Wow. I missed this. I know most of the cast is still on this side of the grass, but with Roddenberry, Justman, Jefferies, Theiss, Courage, and now Datin gone I feel like original Star Trek has truly passed. (I don't mean that in a cranky old man way either.)

Thanks, Mr. Datin. I dearly love playing with the toys you gave me.

 

[plynch]

Its amazing how the old cars in the top picture look more futuristic compared the bland boxes we drive about in today in the bottom picture.

But anyway R.I.P Mr Datin.

I'm diggin' this thread and the cool tangents. Re. the cars: they are "futuristic," in the sixties sense of that word, though not accurately predictive of the future (80s - now, say). Interesting.

Some of you might be interested in the book my kid got for Christmas all about the predictions and artwork from Popular Science over the years.

 

[Maurice]

I just dug out an email exchange I had with Mr. Datin in 2005: Here is the main one:

Hi Maurice:

See below for my replies. Please remember quite a "few" years have passed since I worked for the show--thusly the memory banks have fallen on lean times.

> Hi Richard,
>
> Thanks for taking the time to write back!
>
> Please excuse me if I ask you questions you've answered a billion times
> before.
>
> Here we go...
>
> 1. I saw there was an article about you in the Star Trek magazine. Are there
> other interviews you've done that you feel give a fully rounded picture of
> your work on the show?

No, but take a look at Wm McCullars website IDICPage.

> 2. Space Station K7. I enjoyed seeing the S-IV B pieces that were in its
> construction. Can you tell me what kind of modifications you made to the
> Douglas pieces, and what the rest of the station was composed of, and what
> markings it had? I've heard that you felt the model used in "Trials and
> Tribbleations" wasn't accurate. Is this so?

There was a considerable amout of work to convert it to the K7. That model was entirely too large. The modelers who built it never contacted me for info, though they were well aware of who built it. Someone told me that they were too busy due to the sho schedule. The original pieces of the Douglas model was made of some sort of plastic that I was not familiar with at the time. It had a rubbery feel to it and not easy to work with.

> 3. Was there any indication from Jeffries as to what some of the elements on
> the ship were supposed to be? For instance, the little window above the
> hangar deck doors.

No.

> 4. Why does the large Enterprise model lack the indented detail near the
> front of the engineering hull on it's left (port) side? I'm curious why it
> was left off.

Do you mean the secondary hull? I don't know of the "indented detail" you speak of. Are you referring to the "restored" Enterprise model at NASM in DC? If so, that was the side of the model never photographed. The Enterprise flew from left to right on the screen so it was not necessary to detail the other side..

> 5. Would you have liked an opportunity to restore the model, rather than
> what happened to it?


No, not after all those years had passed, besides I no longer lived in LA. It was not a craftsman type of restoration!



> Thanks in advance, sir!

You're welcome!

 

[Warped9]

--Richard Datin: It was not a craftsman type of restoration!

++++++++++

That's putting it kindly.

 

[deg3D]

Late RIP to Datin. Wonder if the other guys who actually built her are still around...

Some naming confusion it seems. Boris posted a link that corrects Datin, but Mel Keys and Vern Sion are miss-tagged in his second link.

So to be clear: In Maurice's top photo, that is (L to R): Richard C. Datin, Jr., Vernon Sion, Mel Keys. Most likely taken by Volmer Jensen (owner of the Production Models Shop).

Then in the bottom one (most likely taken by Datin), is (L to R): Vern Sion, Mel Keys, Volmer Jensen.

I was at the spot the night of 09.08.2011, the 45th anny of Star Trek with John Eaves and another buddy, Matt Boardman, who works with me on BSG: BC.

Here's a pic (full rez version here). Will go back in the day-time soon to get another shot.

It's interesting to me, there's an "orb" artifact right in the middle of where E would have been, and as I walked over the site, I felt a distinct "wave" come over me, before I even knew I was in the correct spot.

Note to the weather/smog in LA/The Valley (where Burbank is, where the shots were taken); Been here 9 months now, and it's pretty darn clear an' pretty here now every day. Weather is awesome I gotta say.

 

[deg3D]

Way-cool, dude. Thanks for sharin' that.

I just dug out an email exchange I had with Mr. Datin in 2005: Here is the main one:

Hi Maurice:

See below for my replies. Please remember quite a "few" years have passed since I worked for the show--thusly the memory banks have fallen on lean times.

> Hi Richard,
>
> Thanks for taking the time to write back!
>
> Please excuse me if I ask you questions you've answered a billion times
> before.
>
> Here we go...
>
> 1. I saw there was an article about you in the Star Trek magazine. Are there
> other interviews you've done that you feel give a fully rounded picture of
> your work on the show?

No, but take a look at Wm McCullars website IDICPage.

> 2. Space Station K7. I enjoyed seeing the S-IV B pieces that were in its
> construction. Can you tell me what kind of modifications you made to the
> Douglas pieces, and what the rest of the station was composed of, and what
> markings it had? I've heard that you felt the model used in "Trials and
> Tribbleations" wasn't accurate. Is this so?

There was a considerable amout of work to convert it to the K7. That model was entirely too large. The modelers who built it never contacted me for info, though they were well aware of who built it. Someone told me that they were too busy due to the sho schedule. The original pieces of the Douglas model was made of some sort of plastic that I was not familiar with at the time. It had a rubbery feel to it and not easy to work with.

> 3. Was there any indication from Jeffries as to what some of the elements on
> the ship were supposed to be? For instance, the little window above the
> hangar deck doors.

No.

> 4. Why does the large Enterprise model lack the indented detail near the
> front of the engineering hull on it's left (port) side? I'm curious why it
> was left off.

Do you mean the secondary hull? I don't know of the "indented detail" you speak of. Are you referring to the "restored" Enterprise model at NASM in DC? If so, that was the side of the model never photographed. The Enterprise flew from left to right on the screen so it was not necessary to detail the other side..

> 5. Would you have liked an opportunity to restore the model, rather than
> what happened to it?


No, not after all those years had passed, besides I no longer lived in LA. It was not a craftsman type of restoration!



> Thanks in advance, sir!

You're welcome!

 

[Sir Rhosis]

I recall reading (or seeing) somewhere on the net that Datin was actually added to the photo of the other guys and Enterprise on the street, i.e., he wasn't originally in the picture. Anyone else recall seeing that?

Sir Rhosis

 

[deg3D]

I recall reading (or seeing) somewhere on the net that Datin was actually added to the photo of the other guys and Enterprise on the street, i.e., he wasn't originally in the picture. Anyone else recall seeing that?

Sir Rhosis

The guy at StarTrek History made a compilation of the two pics (which he flags as such at the bottom of the pic): http://www.startrekhistory.com/models.html

I would suspect, given that the two pics are the same background-wise and Keys and Sion are dressed the same, that Datin and Jensen took turns taking pics of one another (both with Keys and Sion). That's my call anywho.

 

[Sir Rhosis]

Ah, that's it. Thank you.

Sir Rhosis