Spoilers Rings of Power Season 2 Rating and Review and Discussion Thread: Spoilers inside.

[Skywalker]

Overall, I've been enjoying this season more than I did the first one. (I did like the first season, but it was very clunky in places and you can tell that the writing has gotten a lot sharper this year.) There are still a couple of things that kinda take me out of it, but for the most part it's been a big step up. That being said, I think last week's episode was a bit of a comedown after the pretty strong opening trio of episodes. So I was a little wary going into episode 5, worried that maybe the show was starting to slip again.

But folks, this one was a home run. Definitely one of the best episodes yet. This was the drama I wanted to see when this show was first announced. Even the Númenor storyline, which I thought got off to a really rocky start (which is a shame because it's personally my favorite storyline from this era), was firing on all cylinders this week. I'm hyped for episode 6, and to see where things go from here.

 

[Valandil]

The most recent episode was absolutely superb. Best of the series so far.

 

[Saul]

I enjoyed this episode. Season 2 is really redeeming this show. In some ways it does feel rushed but it makes up for the lackluster season 1.

 

[JD]

Was Miriel part of Tolkien's writing? I had assumed she was a new character created for the show, but Wikipedia has her listed as one of the characters created by Tolkien.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Was Miriel part of Tolkien's writing? I had assumed she was a new character created for the show, but Wikipedia has her listed as one of the characters created by Tolkien.

Yeah, she is a Tolkien creation. However, there wasn't really a lot written about her.

 

[FreezeC77]

Was Miriel part of Tolkien's writing? I had assumed she was a new character created for the show, but Wikipedia has her listed as one of the characters created by Tolkien.

She was created by Tolkien, but other then a sentence or two or appearing in an appendix as part of a lineage there was not much written.

There was a collection of books written/edited by Tolkien's son Christopher which make up what is referred to as the "History Of Middle-Earth" and is 13 books. Most containing snippets of writings by Tolkien (sometimes... often unfinished... some early drafts, conflicting descriptions, etc...)

In the final book he put out in 2002. He has a part where he talks about the Fall of Numenor and some of the writings. The closest to an official account of Miriel in Tolkien's writings previously was I believe he simply referred to her as being fair of complexion and smaller than an average Numenorean woman and that she was forced into marriage by Pharazon who stole the throne that rightfully was hers.

In the 2002 book Christopher uses drafts and snippets of Tolkien's writing and I believe at one point ever remarks that there was more written by his Father on it, but much of it was hard to decipher in he style Tolkien wrote and I think his handwriting in general at times was difficult to comprehend.

But Tolkien did take a crack a longer description of Miriel, Pharazon, Elendil (and his Father Amandil) and the relationship. In that version Miriel actually was taken by Pharazon's appearance and stature. The Pharazon in both the 'semi-official' previous descriptions by Tolkien and in some of the rough drafts (or conflicting rough drafts) is a lot different than the Rings Of Power version.

Pharazon was a mariner. He spent most of his time AWAY from Numenor and fighting on the mainland. He was pretty well-regarded for his war prowess and it was definitely something that helped the masses to accept him usurping the line of succession.

In the more expanded rough draft Pharazon and Miriel defy the rules that do not allow the royal family to marry first-cousins. Pharazon also was best-friends with Elendil's Father (Amandil) and they spent time fighting together. He wasn't just a scheming politician/noble like in the show.

 

[fireproof78]

In the more expanded rough draft Pharazon and Miriel defy the rules that do not allow the royal family to marry first-cousins. Pharazon also was best-friends with Elendil's Father (Amandil) and they spent time fighting together. He wasn't just a scheming politician/noble like in the show.

Kind of like how Denethor was not just a depressed madman as in the films, right?

 

[FreezeC77]

Kind of like how Denethor was not just a depressed madman as in the films, right?

Yea. I'm sure the decision was to change the narrative and offer more of a counter/villain for those Minas Tirith scenes, but it is a shame what was done to him.

For Pharazon while I said he was very similar to Elendil so I think in the show it's probably being done to offer a bigger contrast between the one to root for in the Numenor storyline (Elendil and also Isildur) and have Pharazon established as an obvious threat from the start.

 

[fireproof78]

Yea. I'm sure the decision was to change the narrative and offer more of a counter/villain for those Minas Tirith scenes, but it is a shame what was done to him.

For Pharazon while I said he was very similar to Elendil so I think in the show it's probably being done to offer a bigger contrast between the one to root for in the Numenor storyline (Elendil and also Isildur) and have Pharazon established as an obvious threat from the start.

Pharazon always struck me as a Numenor first type of a guy, and more along the lines of shrewd or backhanded negotiating to cooperation like Elendil. If he was a mariner, he would not have bought in to it like Elendil did and used his connections to move up in power.

My impressions, from season 1 at least.

 

[JD]

Yeah, she is a Tolkien creation. However, there wasn't really a lot written about her.

She was created by Tolkien, but other then a sentence or two or appearing in an appendix as part of a lineage there was not much written.

There was a collection of books written/edited by Tolkien's son Christopher which make up what is referred to as the "History Of Middle-Earth" and is 13 books. Most containing snippets of writings by Tolkien (sometimes... often unfinished... some early drafts, conflicting descriptions, etc...)

In the final book he put out in 2002. He has a part where he talks about the Fall of Numenor and some of the writings. The closest to an official account of Miriel in Tolkien's writings previously was I believe he simply referred to her as being fair of complexion and smaller than an average Numenorean woman and that she was forced into marriage by Pharazon who stole the throne that rightfully his.

In the 2002 book Christopher uses drafts and snippets of Tolkien's writing and I believe at one point ever remarks that there was more written by his Father on it, but much of it was hard to decipher in he style Tolkien wrote and I think his handwriting in general at times was difficult to comprehend.

But Tolkien did take a crack a longer description of Miriel, Pharazon, Elendil (and his Father Amandil) and the relationship. In that version Miriel actually was taken by Pharazon's appearance and stature. The Pharazon in both the 'semi-official' previous descriptions by Tolkien and in some of the rough drafts (or conflicting rough drafts) is a lot different than the Rings Of Power version.

Pharazon was a mariner. He spent most of his time AWAY from Numenor and fighting on the mainland. He was pretty well-regarded for his war prowess and it was definitely something that helped the masses to accept him usurping the line of succession.

In the more expanded rough draft Pharazon and Miriel defy the rules that do not allow the royal family to marry first-cousins. Pharazon also was best-friends with Elendil's Father (Amandil) and they spent time fighting together. He wasn't just a scheming politician/noble like in the show.

Interesting. I didn't realize he ever covered anything from this era in that much detail.

 

[FreezeC77]

Interesting. I didn't realize he ever covered anything from this era in that much detail.

From what I gather from what his son wrote and described a lot of the material Tolkien produced wasn't very story/narrative... but he was such an academic that he just did loads of research and felt compelled to create 'backstory' or tidbits about minor characters just to have them be more 'real'.

Even just extending to names that would basically be 'footnotes' and lineages of ancestry.

But I do think from his notes there may have been an intention or possibility of him at one point thinking to write a larger account of the "Fall Of Numenor" similar to the Fall Of Gondolin (an elvish city destroyed in the First Age war) which appeared in the Silmarillion, but was a later draft with his earlier version appearing in one of the books edited by his son after Tolkien's death. I think the first draft of the Fall Of Gondolin is credited as one of the first lengthy tales he ever wrote in the LOTR universe.

 

[Fuddles]

I haven't watched the latest episode but my favorite part so far from this season is the hill troll.

 

[JD]

It looks like we've reached the final push to the finale.
I was a little surprised that we had Mirile was back as queen by the end of the episodes, I had expected a bigger, longer conflict there.
Celebrimbor and Durin III are really not handling Sauron and the ring's influence very well.
It looks like Nori and Poppy's time with the Stoors is hinting at the Harfoots eventually settling down in the Shire. I wonder if that's where they're end their storyline in the series?
I'm a little confused as to what exactly Sauron's plotting with the Adar's attack on Eregion?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I've watched too much Star Trek when Celebrimor says "What's your name smith" I expected her to respond "The names Jones, sir".

 

[Turtletrekker]

It looks like Nori and Poppy's time with the Stoors is hinting at the Harfoots eventually settling down in the Shire. I wonder if that's where they're end their storyline in the series?

Well, as we all have come to accept by this point, Tolkien's actual writings are more of a suggestion than a guideline, but in the lore the hobbits didn't migrate to the Shire until well into the Third Age. They were bequeathed the land by the King of Arthedain and all the various wandering tribes eventually migrated there. When Arthedain fell to the Witch King of Angmar, the Hobbits just kept on going on as they always did.

 

[JD]

Interesting, but that's the kind of thing I could see them changing for this. You're mention of the Witch King of Angmar reminds me of something I've been wondering about. Will we be seeing and following at least some of the 9 men who get their rings? I could see a whole big arc following at least one of them as they are corrupted and changed into a Ringwraith.

 

[FreezeC77]

Interesting, but that's the kind of thing I could see them changing for this. You're mention of the Witch King of Angmar reminds me of something I've been wondering about. Will we be seeing and following at least some of the 9 men who get their rings? I could see a whole big arc following at least one of them as they are corrupted and changed into a Ringwraith.

7 dwarf lords got rings and we followed 'one' as a minor character since the start of the show. The others don't even appear since it was emissaries that were dispatched on their behalf to be shown the rings by King Durin.

Although we saw all 3 elf rings, but that's because we already have seen/know the characters who get them.

Tolkien didn't ever reveal anything much about them. The only one who ever gets a name was Khamul who was said to be an Easterling (which is the regions east/southeast of Mordor.

I actually wonder if the show may turn one or more of the existing human characters into ringwraiths. Theo has already been touched by Sauron's evil. He's also not a Numenorean so he doesn't have the multiple centuries lifespan of Isildur.

When last we see him Arondir is leaving and addresses Theo as the "Lord of Pelargir". Now it's not like he can bestow a Lordship and Pelargir is just refugees from the Southlands in an abandoned Numenorean outpost... but it's possible he could rise to that and help to organize it and then at some point when Isildur/his Father seek to establish their colonies it may lead Theo to be a bit off-put having managed to build-up the town over a decade or two and meanwhile Isildur barely looks a few months older.

The other possible ringwraith candidate I think is Pharazon's son. He's quite foppish, but also very jealous of Isildur. All the lore about Numenor is that Pharazon falls for Sauron's treachery and it leads to their demise... so what if Pharazon's son falls for Sauron's flattery and is convinced of something that could make him stronger than Isildur?

 

[JD]

I do like the idea of Pharazon's son being one of them.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I do like the idea of Pharazon's son being one of them.

He does seem to be an easily corruptible little weasel

 

[mswood]

Damn!