Spoilers Rings of Power Season 2 Rating and Review and Discussion Thread: Spoilers inside.

[Adaptive Manipulator]

I'm grumpy about almost everything, repeatedly called "old" by various people despite being 40, and often described as a "wet blanket" by my kids, and generally feel grumpy.

Rings of Power is one thing that I feel doesn't need to sweeten me up. I enjoy it all across the board as a separate thing from a book that I consider one of the greatest ever written.

The information about the Second Age in the Appendices, Unfinished Tales and Silmarillion is sketchy and sometimes contradictory. It would certainly have required heavy modification whoever adapted it. My main quarrel is with the quality of the adaptation and the loss of the main themes of the Legendarium - primarily the contrast between the deathlessness of Elves and the mortality of Men.

My other quibble is that Galadriel should be the second-oldest Elf in Middle Earth at this point in the Second Age (after Círdan) and, due to her time spent learning from Melian the Maia, would already be a powerful sorceress. She's older than Gil-galad and Celebrimbor. She's Elrond's future mother-in-law. She shouldn't be depicted as an annoying shrew of an adult girlchild pursuing a simplistic vendetta against Sauron because her brother Finrod's soul was untimely dispatched to the Halls of Mandos in Valinor. Her motivation should be to want to create a small version of the timeless and unchanging Undying Lands in Middle-earth - something that she and Elrond would achieve separately in Lothlórien and Imladris with the aid of their rings, Nenya and Vilya.

Being only a few years off 70, I am definitely old (and mortal).

 

[fireproof78]

She shouldn't be depicted as an annoying shrew of an adult girlchild pursuing a simplistic vendetta against Sauron because her brother Finrod's soul was untimely dispatched to the Halls of Mandos in Valinor. Her motivation should be to want to create a small version of the timeless and unchanging Undying Lands in Middle-earth - something that she and Elrond would achieve separately in Lothlórien and Imladris with the aid of their rings, Nenya and Vilya.

I feel like she isn't a shrew, but has her blind spots and is starting to move in to that place with Gil-Galad in this season.

My main quarrel is with the quality of the adaptation and the loss of the main themes of the Legendarium - primarily the contrast between the deathlessness of Elves and the mortality of Men.

I feel like I'm seeing those themes through the show, so I guess agree to disagree.

 

[CaptainWacky]

So many lines of dialogue in episode 4 lifted (sometimes slightly modified) from the movies. Yeah, the movies took them from the books, but the intention here was definitely to remind us of the movies and make us think this show is the same thing (especially with the Ents showing up and speedrunning their "don't cut down trees!" story.) Arondir using Gandalf's "deep places of the world" line about that little bog was particularly silly.

Meanwhile half of Tom's lines were lifted directly form his book conversation with the hobbits, which at least mean his dialogue was pretty good.

Isildur sure falls in love fast.

 

[fireproof78]

Isildur sure falls in love fast.

In my experience, at that age, I fell in love pretty quickly too. Seems normal enough.

o many lines of dialogue in episode 4 lifted (sometimes slightly modified) from the movies. Yeah, the movies took them from the books, but the intention here was definitely to remind us of the movies and make us think this show is the same thing

So...that they're connected together?

Because I think that's deliberate for us to treat this show and films as being together. Note, not the books because this is an adaptation and, like the films, they will change stuff.

 

[Drunk Superman]

Isildur sure falls in love fast.

He's the Jim Kirk of Middle Earth

 

[JD]

The Harfoots & The Stranger have been one of my favorite parts of the show since it started, and I really liked what we got with them here. Tom Bombadil was a definitely highlight, he might have been more serious than he was in the book, but what we got with him still felt right to me. I love the design of the Stoor village, and the reveal that the Harfoots actually split off from the Stoors was a surprise. So if The Dark Wizard is an Istari, does that mean they've created a new Istari for the show. I read through some of the stuff about them on Wikipedia, and he's clearly not Gandalf, or Radagast, and Saruman isn't evil yet. It didn't say a lot about The Blue Wizards, but I would think if the intent was for him to be one of them, there would be some Blue somewhere. I guess they might say he's Saruman and he was evil all along, but I don't know how he could be and still be so trusted in the Third Age.
I've always loved the Ents, and while it wasn't much, I liked what we got with them here.
I was surprised that Estrid really did
I was a little shocked Elrond still refused to trust Galadriel with the ring after their encounter with the Barrow Wights, I would think that would have at least made him reconsider, since if he had listened to her warning, the Elf who died would still be alive. The Barrow Wights were seriously creepy.

 

[Adaptive Manipulator]

I feel like I'm seeing those themes through the show, so I guess agree to disagree.

Fair enough. I only recall the "Elves coming here stealing our jobs" nonsense from season one. Based on the excerpts I've seen, I can't bear to watch this season to see if and how they course-correct. As far as I can tell, the fate of Elvish and Human souls after the physical death of their bodies is never mentioned. I suspect it's been glossed over because not all markets would accept such religious themes to be exposed - a marketing decision.

Anyhow, enough of my babbling distraction - the other fish I need to fry are on the turn.

ETA: The following excellent video describes why Sauron should be individually stronger, not weaker, before he forges the One Ring - only regaining his strength once he wears it. It's related to the nature of Morgoth's ring and how that must also be ultimately destroyed in the Dagor Dagorath.

 

[Starbrow]

I really liked introduction of Cirdan. Very likeable character.
Halbrand -> Annatar

Seems like every plot is moving along nicely.

What i am curiose about is how many soldiers each sides have atm? It would have been interesting to figure out how big of a threat Adar's Uruks are atm.

 

[Starbrow]

Episode 4 was ok, but Elrond is being such a shitty little asshole. "She did it to save the ring". Really? If she just wanted to save the fucking ring she'd have fled with the ring, she certainly could have outrun the other elves if she put her mind to it and didn't care about their safety. Elrond is going way too far with his ring based temper tantrum, if they keep this up he could become an irredeemable asshole. The fact that he's going to wear one of the Elvish rings for over 3000 years makes this even stupider.

Tom Bombadil was ok, but its totally broken his lore in a way that just feels ridiculous. He shouldn't be in Rhun, he shouldn't be so serious and he shouldn't be without Goldberry. Still, at least the stuff with The Stranger was interesting, The Hobbit storyline is just garbage, total filler. I have no idea why they felt like the show needed hobbits, but they were wrong. Also, the stoors never lived in rhun, they lived near a river close to the east side of the Misty mountains. Also Smeagol was a stoor, which is pretty funny based on what RoP has done with the stoors (hard to find the one ring in a river when the stoors no longer live within hundreds of miles of that river, according to RoP)

This is definitely a rough episode, but minus the hobbit stuff it was ok if a bit frustrating.

Elrond response kind of fits here if you keep in mind the concept that Rings corrupt, turning Elf against Elf, friends against each other.

What puzzled me, is to why they all agreed to sacrifice Galadriel, instead of 3 random elves from Elronds party. I mean even Arondir, some low ranking elf stationed in the middle of nowhere in Southlands recognized Galadriel, when he saw her in the first season. So she is kind of super famous among elves, and yet they were all happy to abandon her. Could it be the ring corruption had this effect on them?

Really like the Barrow-wights, and the " Avengers assemble " scene .

 

[fireproof78]

I was a little shocked Elrond still refused to trust Galadriel with the ring after their encounter with the Barrow Wights, I would think that would have at least made him reconsider, since if he had listened to her warning, the Elf who died would still be alive.

"Save me from the stubbornness of Elves."

 

[diankra]

The Harfoots & The Stranger have been one of my favorite parts of the show since it started, and I really liked what we got with them here. Tom Bombadil was a definitely highlight, he might have been more serious than he was in the book, but what we got with him still felt right to me. I love the design of the Stoor village, and the reveal that the Harfoots actually split off from the Stoors was a surprise. So if The Dark Wizard is an Istari, does that mean they've created a new Istari for the show. I read through some of the stuff about them on Wikipedia, and he's clearly not Gandalf, or Radagast, and Saruman isn't evil yet. It didn't say a lot about The Blue Wizards, but I would think if the intent was for him to be one of them, there would be some Blue somewhere. I guess they might say he's Saruman and he was evil all along, but I don't know how he could be and still be so trusted in the Third Age.
I've always loved the Ents, and while it wasn't much, I liked what we got with them here.
I was surprised that Estrid really did
I was a little shocked Elrond still refused to trust Galadriel with the ring after their encounter with the Barrow Wights, I would think that would have at least made him reconsider, since if he had listened to her warning, the Elf who died would still be alive. The Barrow Wights were seriously creepy.

IIRC, we're told that many Istari came to Middle Earth, but only Gandalf, Saruman and Radegast are still there by The Hobbit.

 

[JD]

Oh OK. All the stuff I read only mentioned Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the two Blue Wizards.

 

[FPAlpha]

That was a great episode - full on Ring power on display in all their subtlety as commanded by their actual master Sauron.

This is the core of the show and it's always best with the scenes involving Sauron and his masterful deceptions and seductions. We see how the Rings slowly take over people, even those as stubborn as Dwarves. Sauron is a true puppet master and we see how he plays everybody. Celebrimbor inadvertantly pinpointed the exact way how Sauron works by planting thoughts in people's minds until they are convinced it was their idea all along.

I love how they reveal all the small things we are so familiar with but here they are being built - the door to Moria with the famous Friend codeword, Durin's wife hearing the Balrog ( at first i thought it was the Watcher in the Water but it's the wrong location and i'm not sure of it's there at this point of time), the Dwarves starting to dig too deep and the start of the forging of the Nine Rings.

The Numenor storyline keeps developing but its payoff is still a long way off, i'd say season 3 or even season 4 at the earliest since Sauron has to complete the forging of the Rings before he travels to Numenor to meet with Ar-Pharazon and usher in the end of Numenor ( if they keep to this storyline that is).

No pre-Hobbits this time which for me was a good thing, really don't like these annoying little creatures though the Stranger storyline is intriguing. I really hope it's something far more interesting with him than just revealing it's Gandalf.

So yeah, huge setup for the coming Battle of Eregion that's supposed to be the largest battle ever seen on TV.

 

[Starbrow]

This is not how i imagined the other rings would come to be. I thought at least they will spend this whole season introducing other dwarves and their problems and why they need this rings, and next season would be the introduction of Men.
Instead the whole ring business looks kind of diminished, they just craft them cause the story demends it. Why other Dwarves and Men even need this rings? And which Men? Which Kingdoms?
Seems like Adar is just focused on Elves atm, is he really a threat to all the other Men and Dwarves?

I think they are going to fast, way to fast. makes one wonder why are they rushing so much - are they already planing on canceling the show? I thought the whole point of this show were the Rings. But if they craft them in season 2, what else is there to for the remaining seasons?

I really hope they at least introduce the other Dwarf Lords, instead of just silent emissaries.

8 episodes is just too short, we need to go back to the old format of 24 episode pr season.

 

[Timelord Victorious]

This is not how i imagined the other rings would come to be. I thought at least they will spend this whole season introducing other dwarves and their problems and why they need this rings, and next season would be the introduction of Men.
Instead the whole ring business looks kind of diminished, they just craft them cause the story demends it. Why other Dwarves and Men even need this rings? And which Men? Which Kingdoms?
Seems like Adar is just focused on Elves atm, is he really a threat to all the other Men and Dwarves?

I think they are going to fast, way to fast. makes one wonder why are they rushing so much - are they already planing on canceling the show? I thought the whole point of this show were the Rings. But if they craft them in season 2, what else is there to for the remaining seasons?

I really hope they at least introduce the other Dwarf Lords, instead of just silent emissaries.

8 episodes is just too short, we need to go back to the old format of 24 episode pr season.

I am pretty sure this show will end with the great War and Sauron's defeat.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh OK. All the stuff I read only mentioned Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the two Blue Wizards.

Tolkien has a lot different ideas around the Wizards, and when they appeared. Their chief purpose in the tales is to be encouraging and advising and stirring up resistance against evil, and be in opposition to Sauron.

 

[FPAlpha]

This is not how i imagined the other rings would come to be. I thought at least they will spend this whole season introducing other dwarves and their problems and why they need this rings, and next season would be the introduction of Men.
Instead the whole ring business looks kind of diminished, they just craft them cause the story demends it. Why other Dwarves and Men even need this rings? And which Men? Which Kingdoms?
Seems like Adar is just focused on Elves atm, is he really a threat to all the other Men and Dwarves?

I think they are going to fast, way to fast. makes one wonder why are they rushing so much - are they already planing on canceling the show? I thought the whole point of this show were the Rings. But if they craft them in season 2, what else is there to for the remaining seasons?

I really hope they at least introduce the other Dwarf Lords, instead of just silent emissaries.

8 episodes is just too short, we need to go back to the old format of 24 episode pr season.

There's yet so much still to happen. The Rings of Men still need to be forged, this will happen this season.

Then the 9 Rings need to be distributed to the leaders of men, i figure one of them will be the already seen dark wizard in Rhun, the future Witchking still needs to be introduced ( i figure season 3). Ar-Pharazon still needs to be completely corrupted by Sauron and made to invade Valinor prompting the downfall of Numenor ( seasons 3 and 4 i guess), some major battles coming in between, Sauron still needs to at least start building Barad Dur, then the founding of Arnor and Gondor by Elendil and Isildur. Sauron will forge his One Ring and finally the Last Alliance battle that sees Sauron defeated until the beginning of the Lord of the Rings.

Now obviously the show can't and won't stick to the official timeline, that was clear even before it aired so some of these events will be moved around, might even happen differently than in the book ( and the Tolkien Purist hate will only deepen ) but there is more than enough material left to cover the planned 5 seasons and i hope they stick with it and not run out of steam in the final season like GoT where everybody just wanted to finish up and go home and it clearly shows.

Personally i'm ok with tentpole shows like these having reduced episodes, 8-10, maybe 12, works out well for most shows because it forces the writers to cut off any unnecessary filler that were full of in old school 24 episode runs ( how many bad episodes per season did Star Trek have because of this?). It also means that the budget can be used better due to less episodes.

 

[JD]

This was a great episode.
So was anything Sauron said true? He's known as a liar, so I'm assuming everything was pretty much the opposite of what he said?
Damn, Pharazon's son really is absolutely horrible. It will be interesting to see how Earien reacts to Valandil's death, they seemed pretty close.
You really have to feel sorry for poor Elendil, he thinks his son is dead, his daughter has turned on him, and now Valandil, who was obviously pretty close to is dead now too.
It was fascinating to see just how quick to ring was to start to effect Durin III.
It was fun seeing the creation of the door from Fellowship of Ring. Was the ring that Mirdania wore THE RING, or would that have been one of The Nine? I had thought going sending it's wearer into the shadow world, or whatever they called it, was something that only THE RING did.

 

[David cgc]

It wouldn't surprise me if Sauron pocketed that prototype ring after what happened and eventually uses it as the foundation for his Ring.

 

[Starbrow]

This was a great episode.
So was anything Sauron said true? He's known as a liar, so I'm assuming everything was pretty much the opposite of what he said?
Damn, Pharazon's son really is absolutely horrible. It will be interesting to see how Earien reacts to Valandil's death, they seemed pretty close.
You really have to feel sorry for poor Elendil, he thinks his son is dead, his daughter has turned on him, and now Valandil, who was obviously pretty close to is dead now too.
It was fascinating to see just how quick to ring was to start to effect Durin III.
It was fun seeing the creation of the door from Fellowship of Ring. Was the ring that Mirdania wore THE RING, or would that have been one of The Nine? I had thought going sending it's wearer into the shadow world, or whatever they called it, was something that only THE RING did.

" The chief power ( of all the rings alike) was prevention or slowing of decay ... And finnaly they had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron: such as rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the invisible world visible" - The Silmarillion.

Valandil had it coming after he mocked Pharazon son Kemen in the tavern in episode 3 and then actually attacking Kemen in Episode 5. Valandil was his own undoing.
Kemen on the other hand was about to say what he was promoted to, but Elendil cut him off. Not a smart move either.
Looks like this Numenoreans have temper issues.
Surprised no Halfling/Ishtar/Isildur plots this episode either and very little of the Elves.

Gil-Galad and Elronds little dialogue was very interesting, whom Gil-Galad meant to turn for help, when he said " Our Armies cannot defeat both Adar and Sauron. Not alone " ?