Riker/Troi... do you wish they'd done something with it sooner?

[Lance]

I was rewatching "Menage A Troi" on Blu-Ray the other night, and it occured to me how nice it was to see the Will/Deanna relationship being played out. The scenes of the two of them on the planet, just enjoying each other's company, it made me think that although they had some great moments on-screen over the years, it's a shame they didn't develop this more fully until "Insurrection" and "Nemesis". The little spots we did get of it through the television run always felt somewhat few and far between (even though it was clear they had a great working relationship).

Do I gather there were some on the production team who didn't want to explore it? It seems odd to me that it wasn't so much 'dropped', as it was kind of got revisited every so often, without any real thought going into it. Things like "Menage A Troi" and "Second Chances" really took the ball and ran with it, and it was kind of a shame they didn't choose to explore it more fully and frequently.

I mean, they went down this kind of narrative dead-end with Worf/Troi in season 7, and although I personally loved that too, again it seemed a shame that it wasn't until "All Good Things..." that we got into that thing of exploring Riker's feelings about it. They could have done a lot more with that a lot sooner, too.

What do you guys think?

 

[F. King Daniel]

It really, really seemed to me as if they married out of fear of dying alone. Settled for one another. If it was meant to be, they'd have been together during TNG rather than taking turns, one merrily sitting by while the other enjoyed an Affair of the Week™

 

[TheSubCommander]

The Troi/Riker relationship was weird. I know in reality it was just them leaving writing possibilities open, but in early seasons, Troi kind of just sat by like a door mat while Riker was busy being a player. Then Troi had a few romances,t oo. Then there was the Worf debacle that didn't please anyone. But through the whole show, one week it seemed like Troi/Riker were at the very least were boinking on the downlow, and the next they were indifferent towards each other, almost like they had an open relationship, like a couple of swingers.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I always wish they'd done more with the Worf/Troi romance.

 

[bolak]

I always wish they'd done more with the Worf/Troi romance.

Troi was probably grateful they didn't, given the fate usually reserved for Worf's partners...

 

[Orphalesion]

While I personally also prefer Troi/Worf, I very much think that they should have pursued the relationship between Troi and Riker starting with Menage a Troi and by the end of the series they should have been married and had a child/children.
No only would it have provided additional story fodder for the two characters (and by Insurrection/Nemesis their child would have been old enough to play a significant role in the plot) but it would have exploited the "families on board" theme more.

Let alone that it would have saved us from the slew of awkward, stupid "romances" Troi and Riker had with the alien of the week.
But sadly the writers of TNG were still far too much in the "TOS swinging singles" mind frame.

 

[borgboy]

I'm rereading Imzadi now for I think the third time.
I love Troi and Riker, I always shipped them from the beginning. It seemed to me that Troi wanted to be with Riker all along, and it was Riker who was afraid to commit. When Tom Riker came along I wanted Troi to be with him because I was really fed up with Will turning down true love over and over again for years. I enjoyed the Worf/Troi relationship as part of the overall story. They weren't meant to be together, but it was only natural that Troi eventually tried to move on in another serious relationship. She couldn't and shouldn't wait on Will forever. The series finale was a push for Riker to get his act together since he clearly didn't want her to be with anyone else. It was just frustrating that the first two movies didn't do more with their relationship, but at least Insurrection finally started their reconciliation. That's one thing Insurrection did right anyways, and their marriage was a high point in Nemesis for me, something I'd wanted for many years, and it's great for their story to be continued in the novels.
The two Imzadi novels add a lot to their story. In a lot of ways the novels are the best part of their story. I think that Troi and Riker were meant to be together, and their marriage felt like it took longer to happen than it should've, but was always inevitable.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I thought their relationship felt awkward from the start and that it had gotten worse after Tom, Will's "twin brother" came along and dumped Deanna the same way his doppelganger did a few years ago. It would have been reasonable of Deanna to realize after this "double failure" that she should move on and look somewhere else.

 

[borgboy]

I thought their relationship felt awkward from the start and that it had gotten worse after Tom, Will's "twin brother" came along and dumped Deanna the same way his doppelganger did a few years ago. It would have been reasonable of Deanna to realize after this "double failure" that she should move on and look somewhere else.

Well, she did move on and look somewhere else, Worf. Riker seems to wake up out of his complacency and realize that he could lose Troi if he continued to take her for granted, even if it did take him four movies to put a ring on it.
I am of two minds about this. When the relationship is done well, I love it. And I love the little hints that are scattered thru the franchise about their feelings, their nonverbal communication. The way they look to each other in moments of crisis. The way Troi will touch Riker's hand to draw strength from him.
I wonder how much of those little things were in the script and/or direction, and how much of it were acting choices.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I never really like the Riker/Troi relationship.

I was a Worf/Troi shipper.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I thought their relationship felt awkward from the start and that it had gotten worse after Tom, Will's "twin brother" came along and dumped Deanna the same way his doppelganger did a few years ago. It would have been reasonable of Deanna to realize after this "double failure" that she should move on and look somewhere else.

Well, she did move on and look somewhere else, Worf. Riker seems to wake up out of his complacency and realize that he could lose Troi if he continued to take her for granted, even if it did take him four movies to put a ring on it.
I am of two minds about this. When the relationship is done well, I love it. And I love the little hints that are scattered thru the franchise about their feelings, their nonverbal communication. The way they look to each other in moments of crisis. The way Troi will touch Riker's hand to draw strength from him.
I wonder how much of those little things were in the script and/or direction, and how much of it were acting choices.

Well, given that Frakes directed some of these episodes then I'd say that in his case it was both at the same time.

 

[Mojochi]

I wish they hadn't bothered with it to begin with. It was inconvenient to the show & never gave us anything beyond awkwardness.

 

[Pondwater]

I liked it just the way it was.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I wish they hadn't bothered with it to begin with. It was inconvenient to the show & never gave us anything beyond awkwardness.

My thinking exactly.

 

[Mojochi]

I wish they hadn't bothered with it to begin with. It was inconvenient to the show & never gave us anything beyond awkwardness.

My thinking exactly.

I look at it like Dixon Hill. It was one of those things they dropped in the recipe when they built the show, before they had even cast it, & then once the show was launched, & took on a life of its own, there really was no place for it, but now it was in their lap. Dixon Hill was easy to leave by the wayside. The Troi/Riker romance was much harder to let go because it was backstory. A fan can tell when the writers don't like something they've been stuck with

 

[Lance]

While I personally also prefer Troi/Worf, I very much think that they should have pursued the relationship between Troi and Riker starting with Menage a Troi and by the end of the series they should have been married and had a child/children.
No only would it have provided additional story fodder for the two characters (and by Insurrection/Nemesis their child would have been old enough to play a significant role in the plot) but it would have exploited the "families on board" theme more.

Agreed. And I also think you and TheSubCommander are both right in that the way the writers ended up presenting it to us, it was like they were a swinging couple. But on the other hand, consider the final scene in "Conundrum": to all extents and purposes, the punchline of the episode hinges on Troi/Riker being an item, and Riker's embarrassment in front of Troi about having jumped into Ro's bed. So inconsistent.

Oh, and I agree with Borg Boy too, that finally pairing them up was one of the few good things that "Insurrection" and "Nemesis" did. I just wish they had've done it earlier... the actors shares a great screen chemistry, and what we saw in "Menage A Troi" shows us so much of what we were missing.

 

[trekshark]

I'm not really a fan of the main characters in a show like star trek being romantically involved with each other, at least not with there being plots revolving around it

 

[TheSubCommander]

I think this is yet another thing SG1 did better than Star Trek. The way Riker/Troi should have been handled was like how O'Neill/Carter was handled: acknowledged the mutual attraction but for the duration of at least the series, the characters saw they were in the same chain of command and couldn't date while they were. Period. TNG KIND of hinted that, but never outright said it in that context. That's all they had to do, and they could then date others as the story needed, without looking like Riker was shoving those he slept with in Troi's face. Now as far as how Riker/Troi was handled in Insurrection and Nemesis, I agree, that was one of the few things about both films I liked and thought actually turned out well.

Finally, as far as Troi/Worf, I never was a fan. I guess I am outnumbered on this thread, but I am glad they didn't pursue it further than it went, and would have preferred not at all.

 

[HIjol]

I never thought they 'looked" or "felt" right as a couple, and while I was not a huge fan of Frakes, I did not begrudge either of them a little "buns-up, kneelin" But as a couple, no. And, all due respect, IMHO, Troi and Worf??? Uh. No.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Spock was a married First Officer, I suppose, in the Original Series. But their marriage was on paper only, especially when Spock returned home to claim T'Pring as his wife and went crazy with horniness. Stonn was well-pleased, when finally face to face with his "competition." After Spock's "show," there was no way T'Pring was going to get with him. So, despite Spock being technically married, he was, for all intents and purposes, Footloose & Fancy Free.

Riker should've been the married first officer on his ENTERPRISE, only one that audiences actually saw, every week. The ship was set up for families and family life, in general, and it would've further distanced TNG from its predecessor. In fact, I would've had Riker and Troi married by, or during, the second season for that reason, alone. This odd, star-crossed lover thing that these two had, wrapped and packaged under the brand name "Imzadi" never really meant too much until after ALL of the stops and starts they'd had, they finally got married in the movies.

Now, as to the Worf/Troi romance, for me ... it was a breaking of the 4th wall. There was no reason for it, other than for two real life friends to get more scenes together that they wouldn't have otherwise had. It never made sense otherwise, but ... what can you do, when others have control over your favourite series? You know? Take the good with the bad, that's it ...