Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...

[Noname Given]

Even if you are an equal, you can't go off half cocked and march into England and declare they need to sign a treaty with you so you can set up a treaty port...a self-defined imperialistic tool. I'm sure England and their nuclear subs, and aircraft will take very kindly to this "request".

Now show where Fox went into the Eminian council chamber and demanded a treaty? He ordered the Enterprise to ignore the 'code 710' but never once did he order a hostile stance be taken against them. As a matter of fact he ordered Scott to resume a peaceful stance.

The fact Ambassador Fox ignored Eminian soveriegnty (ie remeber - the 1701 was broadcasting the ambassador's wish to travel to the planet and establish diplomatic relations. After days of doing this, the Eminian reply was a code 710, which translated to: "Do NOT approach this Planet under any circumstances."

As soon as Fox order kirk to ignore that and go in against the Eminian's wishes; technically, he was commiting an at of war, again violating their soverinty.

To put it in perspective, it would be like trhe leader of Russia, sitting at sea off the coast of the USA on an Russian Aircraft carrier; broadcasting his intent to ccome in and dock at Long Beach in California; being told by the U.S. government to stay away; yet he ignores that message completely and head the Aircraft carrier in, to dock at Long Beach.
^^^
If the above happened, most likely they would be met with U.S. Naval vessels and air craft; and if they still continued, it would be considered an at of war agauinst the U.S.

In effect, that's the stance ambassador Fox took whe he ignored the 'code 710' reply. And if you watch the episode; Kirk orders shioelds up and phasers armed for the approach. No matter how you look at it, the Federation going in was NOT a 'peaceful gesture' or a 'non-hostile stance/approach'.

 

[Warped9]

The fact Ambassador Fox ignored Eminian soveriegnty (ie remeber - the 1701 was broadcasting the ambassador's wish to travel to the planet and establish diplomatic relations. After days of doing this, the Eminian reply was a code 710, which translated to: "Do NOT approach this Planet under any circumstances."

As soon as Fox order kirk to ignore that and go in against the Eminian's wishes; technically, he was commiting an at of war, again violating their soverinty.

To put it in perspective, it would be like trhe leader of Russia, sitting at sea off the coast of the USA on an Russian Aircraft carrier; broadcasting his intent to ccome in and dock at Long Beach in California; being told by the U.S. government to stay away; yet he ignores that message completely and head the Aircraft carrier in, to dock at Long Beach.
^^^
If the above happened, most likely they would be met with U.S. Naval vessels and air craft; and if they still continued, it would be considered an at of war agauinst the U.S.

In effect, that's the stance ambassador Fox took whe he ignored the 'code 710' reply. And if you watch the episode; Kirk orders shioelds up and phasers armed for the approach. No matter how you look at it, the Federation going in was NOT a 'peaceful gesture' or a 'non-hostile stance/approach'.

In this light it really does make Fox and the Federation look bad. In this case it would have been nice if we had been given more information as to why the Federation thought it was so imperative to take this approach.

As I mentioned upthread TOS (and pretty much all other series) in the '60s didn't really do episode-to-episode continuity, but in this case perhaps it's a happy coincidence that "Errand Of Mercy" follows "A Taste Of Armageddon" because perhaps the Federation's focus on a treaty port in the Eminian area was connected to territorial disputes with the Klingons, disputes which lead to declaration of war in "Errand Of Mercy" and Kirk sent to Organia to to negotiate a base there.

 

[Warped9]

"The City On The Edge Of Forever" *****

An alien time portal sends Kirk, Spock and McCoy back to 1930's New York.

Fantastic! There are some quirks to this, but it's one helluva story. There are solid performances all around and plenty of good moments. It's an emotionally engaging story as well as a damned good piece of science fiction. And by all rights this would have been an ideal season finale. I should also note that TOS often enough had a knack for good episode titles.

The setting and scenery have a nice authentic feel to them. And being pre-cgi most everything has a credible and tangible feel to it. A young Joan Collins is very fetching here and Kirk really has a torturous choice on his hands.

There are questions though. When they beam down to search for McCoy why is Scotty and Uhura along with them? And why can't they locate McCoy with their tricorders? Perhaps the time displacement waves the Guardian is putting out interferes with such scans? I know it's meant to be dramatic, but that cordrazine seems to work awfully fast, both on Sulu and McCoy. Finally there are some historical inconsistencies here, but we are talking about the fictional history of the Star Trek universe and not the history of our own reality so it doesn't really matter.

While the story ends with their mission successful on some level it still feels somewhat like a downbeat ending. Interesting.

This story brings to mind many impressions I have of revisiting Season 1 TOS, but I'll reserve those for my summation of the season after watching the last episode. And then it will be on to Season 2...

 

[Forbin]

Despite all her later shenanigans and overglamification, Joan Collins was an absolutley stunning young woman.

 

[scotpens]

. . . What we don't see here (in the show, not this board) is the discussion or perhaps hot debate in regard to what exactly the Prime Directive really means. As I said earlier it seems to have different layers of meaning or to be elastic enough depending on the situation. And this will continue from TOS into TNG. There may be exceptions to it such as not having to sacrifice yourself and your ship if you can find a way out of it without violating the directive at least in spirit.

From “The Omega Glory”:

Captain's log, supplemental. The Enterprise has left the Exeter and moved into close planet orbit. Although it appears the infection may strand us here the rest of our lives, I face an even more difficult problem: a growing belief that Captain Tracey has been interfering with the evolution of life on this planet. It seems impossible. A star captain's most solemn oath is that he will give his life, even his entire crew, rather than violate the Prime Directive.

Or not, depending on the requirements of the plot.

 

[Brian]

It can be inferred from the dialogue in the episode that the thousands of lives lost in the Eminiar/Vendikar sector are not from passing ships. When the Enterprise was declared a casualty, Sar's line to Anan about "just as it happened fifty years ago" pretty clearly communicates that there have been no other visiting/passing ships targeted.

 

[BillJ]

It can be inferred from the dialogue in the episode that the thousands of lives lost in the Eminiar/Vendikar sector are not from passing ships. When the Enterprise was declared a casualty, Sar's line to Anan about "just as it happened fifty years ago" pretty clearly communicates that there have been no other visiting/passing ships targeted.

There are two worlds involved though. We are only seeing things through the eyes of the Eminians.

 

[Brian]

Two worlds with closely coupled war game computers. You don't think both sides know when casualties are registered, and when/if they are carried out? That was key to the whole episode.

 

[Rom's Sehlat]

"I'm in your database, killin' your doods!"

 

[RAMA]

It can be inferred from the dialogue in the episode that the thousands of lives lost in the Eminiar/Vendikar sector are not from passing ships. When the Enterprise was declared a casualty, Sar's line to Anan about "just as it happened fifty years ago" pretty clearly communicates that there have been no other visiting/passing ships targeted.

Agreed

I haven't seen most of TOS-R although I've seen quite a few screencaps. Some of what I've seen is visually interesting, some good, but I've been lukewarm to disappointed with a lot of what I've seen. As has been mentioned already this really isn't the thread to go too deep into it.

That said I will reiterate that I'm not watching the TOS-R versions of these primarily because I want to see them as they were intended with what they had at hand. The way they told these stories is how I grew up with them and they were able to effectively engage my imagination as is.

Part of what bothers me about TOS-R is the fact that to my eyes it doesn't look seamless. It looks like two wholly different productions stitched together---which is exactly what it is. I'm often jarred out of the flow of the story because I'm seeing f/x sequences most of which I know couldn't have been done in the '60s even under the very best of conditions. That a lot of folks claim otherwise doesn't impress or influence me in the slightest.

I simply can't watch the older version anymore...I have explained why I disagree with you on this point, so I won't bother...the one thing I'll mention is that when I've talked to or watched the episodes with people who've seen both versions, but are not dedcated Trekkers, they feel the TOS-R episodes are how the series always was...in other words...seamless. Nothing is jarring to them. I trust these opinions more than I would from dedicated trekkers like us. far more impartial to me.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

"The City On The Edge Of Forever" *****

An alien time portal sends Kirk, Spock and McCoy back to 1930's New York.

Fantastic! There are some quirks to this, but it's one helluva story. There are solid performances all around and plenty of good moments. It's an emotionally engaging story as well as a damned good piece of science fiction. And by all rights this would have been an ideal season finale. I should also note that TOS often enough had a knack for good episode titles.

The setting and scenery have a nice authentic feel to them. And being pre-cgi most everything has a credible and tangible feel to it. A young Joan Collins is very fetching here and Kirk really has a torturous choice on his hands.

There are questions though. When they beam down to search for McCoy why is Scotty and Uhura along with them? And why can't they locate McCoy with their tricorders? Perhaps the time displacement waves the Guardian is putting out interferes with such scans? I know it's meant to be dramatic, but that cordrazine seems to work awfully fast, both on Sulu and McCoy. Finally there are some historical inconsistencies here, but we are talking about the fictional history of the Star Trek universe and not the history of our own reality so it doesn't really matter.

While the story ends with their mission successful on some level it still feels somewhat like a downbeat ending. Interesting.

This story brings to mind many impressions I have of revisiting Season 1 TOS, but I'll reserve those for my summation of the season after watching the last episode. And then it will be on to Season 2...

OK so Harlan's script was better...so what...even if it IS "star Trek, despite drug use, it wouldn't have gotten on the air!! In retrospect the producers made the right choice...everybody got awards out of it. ***** stars original ***** 1/2 stars TOS-R(lol)

As for the events of the episode...it feels different from most episodes...the performances raised up to the material. One of my fav scenes from all trek shows: when Kirk looks up and realizes they are all alone. This scene is improved in the TOS-R version, there is a smoother, longer transition. The orbiting shot across the episode titles in the TOS-R version is also terrific. But the best thing is the seamless insertion of a widescreen planet surface for the higher resolution Bluray:

RAMA

 

[CorporalCaptain]

In the vast majority of cases, the matte work in TOS-R is a positive enhancement. Also, as far as I know, this point is widely agreed upon. For example, the widescreen planet surface shown above is fine.

 

[GNDN]

RAMA,
Did that COTEOF widescreen shot come from StarTrek.com? Because as presented on Blu-ray, it's still cropped at 4:3, no?

From Trekcore:

vs

 

[RAMA]

RAMA,
Did that COTEOF widescreen shot come from StarTrek.com? Because as presented on Blu-ray, it's still cropped at 4:3, no?

Yes all the mattes created were large enough for future "remasterings", and any contingencies. There are a handful of the original mattes online that are larger than what appeared on the discs.

RAMA

 

[GNDN]

^ Right, I was just thrown off when you said But the best thing is the seamless insertion of a widescreen planet surface for the higher resolution Bluray: and then posted the widescreen photo. It is a (slightly) wider field of view on the current blu-ray, but not widescreen.

I hadn't even noticed this subtle change (as opposed to others such as in The Man Trap)

 

[RAMA]

^ Right, I was just thrown off when you said But the best thing is the seamless insertion of a widescreen planet surface for the higher resolution Bluray: and then posted the widescreen photo. It is a (slightly) wider field of view on the current blu-ray, but not widescreen.

I hadn't even noticed this subtle change (as opposed to others such as in The Man Trap)

I meant it in reference to the original photo, obviously its cropped to the bluray aspect ratio. The reason I brought it up was because its more subtle and a lot of people didn't notice the change. More support for these being seamless.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

My 17 year old daughter is a purist in every sense of the word. She refuses to even be in the room when I watch the episodes with the updated effects.

My 14 year old son was watching an episode the other day and complaining how mismatched the effects look with the live-action material.

They both call me a sellout for embracing the new effects.

 

[GNDN]

With all due respect to Warped9, I'd suggest we use this other thread he started to continue discussing TOS-R VFX, as this thread is more devoted to TOS stories and the versions he's re-watching include the original VFX.

There have been a few screencaps of the new planetside mattes posted over there and I plan on posting more since I agree that they are some of the most effective 'upgrades' staying the truest in style and tone to the original while at the same time expanding the scope of the TOS universe. The ship shots are very hit or miss.

Looking forward to more of Warped9's reviews!

 

[RAMA]

With all due respect to Warped9, I'd suggest we use this other thread he started to continue discussing TOS-R VFX, as this thread is more devoted to TOS stories and the versions he's re-watching include the original VFX.

There have been a few screencaps of the new planetside mattes posted over there and I plan on posting more since I agree that they are some of the most effective 'upgrades' staying the truest in style and tone to the original while at the same time expanding the scope of the TOS universe. The ship shots are very hit or miss.

Looking forward to more of Warped9's reviews!

If I were talking only about mattes I would, but the new versions are integral to the episodes now. I can't seperate one from the other, especially when they make significant improvements to the show. I'll restrict the commentary only where this occurs.

The ship shots are very hit or miss.

Looking forward to more of Warped9's reviews!

They're not hit or miss at all, they always used the same CGI model after they modified the first one. The only thing "hit or miss" is the understanding people bring to the FX...some complain the new FX are there, then go on to complain that they are not state of the art...well the reason for this is to make them more seamless to the 60s episode(duh). Using Enteprise or even Phase II type FX would not fit with the episodes! The other side of the coin suggests they didn't go far enough with the FX! Well, I think they did a rather measured remastering, though I definitely would have made more changes if I had been doing it.

My 17 year old daughter is a purist in every sense of the word. She refuses to even be in the room when I watch the episodes with the updated effects.

My 14 year old son was watching an episode the other day and complaining how mismatched the effects look with the live-action material.

They both call me a sellout for embracing the new effects.

I've never heard of this happening and I find it impossible to believe. My experiences have been 180 degrees opposite of this. My 10 year old nephew only watched TOS when it was remastered...he NEVER expressed interest in them before, for example.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

I've never heard of this happening and I find it impossible to believe. My experiences have been 180 degrees opposite of this. My 10 year old nephew only watched TOS when it was remastered...he NEVER expressed interest in them before, for example.

RAMA

You do know that different people do have different experiences? Shocking, but true! Both of my children have grown up watching The Original Series with the original effects with me. So they have a base of reference.

I actually have a great deal of pride in them for respecting the historical significance of things past. My daughter, for example, at 17 is a huge I Love Lucy fan.

I'll never forget the day that The Doomsday Machine Remastered came on... my daughter comes running in with the VHS copy we own, pointing to the back. "That's not the Doomsday Machine" she said pointing to the TV, then showed me the back of the box, "This is the Doomsday Machine".

Got to be honest here... I'd question the intelligence of anyone who can't enjoy The Original Series without the updated effects. Does the dated effects from Star Trek: The Next Generation somehow detract from your enjoyment of that series?