Retroactive justification for Riker's friction towards Jellico?
- Thread starter Ragitsu
- Start date
Left at maximum warp.(And, as an aside, there is a line that where Jellico mentions 'already missing the Cairo' and I always snark at the screen, wondering if the Cairo misses him. Probably not.)
Perhaps knowing that the crew were disturbed by Picards sudden departure,Jellico wanted to keep them further off kilter by instigating the changes he demanded.
Why?And why when the ship was possibly heading into an extremely tricky situation?So they would obey his commands without question??
Seems implausible.
Actually the whole scenario seems implausible,if Fleet command wanted Jellico on scene,why not just divert the Cairo?
Leave Riker to run the Enterprise and everything is as best as you can make it.
As someone upthread said..TNG opted for drama above everything else.
Why?And why when the ship was possibly heading into an extremely tricky situation?So they would obey his commands without question??
Seems implausible.
Actually the whole scenario seems implausible,if Fleet command wanted Jellico on scene,why not just divert the Cairo?
Leave Riker to run the Enterprise and everything is as best as you can make it.
As someone upthread said..TNG opted for drama above everything else.
Plot convenience lol. It's always the case that the Enterprise is the "only" ship that can do it. At least that was Nechayev's claim. They wanted the flagship to be the one to handle it as a show of strength, but with a new captain. It's sort similar to how all of a sudden Will Riker (& not Data) is the "best" shuttle pilot on board. Ok, that's convenient too. Since when can he pilot better than an android?
A few people do complain about him in it but most people who dislike him do just say he should have been/remained Captain since Season 4, that not happening ruined him.
I think it's excessive hostility to interpret that it was just about himself and him feeling hurt rather than at least thinking he was going for what he thought was best for the crew.
The show cast is generally criticized for being too flawlessly idealized and then the few times they do have flaws and errors that is really condemned as horrible writing and unprofessionalism.
Interesting comparison in that (aside from that Picard may have thought her jumping over him was unusual, iffy but not clearly obviously wrong) Riker was initially steamed and yet later came to think her very different style and inclinations could be contributory.
Evidently because they wanted the Galaxy class Enterprise and not an Excelsior class.
"But a Galaxy class ship, that's something special."
I never thought that writing Riker this way was bad writing. Quite the opposite. I think it's the beginning of the best writing they ever did for him. Between Chain of Command & The Pegasus, they successfully reconned his whole character arc (at least in my head canon)
But it does rather undermine his character, in being what he was introduced to us as. It paints a picture of a guy who has hangups about subordinance & confidence issues about becoming a captain, which work to explain & justify a lot of his character inconsistencies.
I'm always supportive of giving the characters ambiguity. I was never more riveted than when Worf refused to aid a dying Romulan in The Enemy. Riker being a dick with a dark past & some hangups, is a smart move, if you're going to bother keeping him around after BoBW
So for the Cardassians - size matters.
Somebody will probably make a better Garak joke than I can think of.
To be fair, when Picard took the D, to deal with the Ben Maxwell situation, the Cardies were pretty shook. Even Maxwell's nebula class wiped out one of theirs, absent its shields to boot. Macet seemed downright appalled that Picard had freely read their transponder codes, & one of his men was doing anything he could to get a glimpse at their weapons systems. The D is probably well discussed back on Cardassia.So for the Cardassians - size matters.
Somebody will probably make a better Garak joke than I can think of.
Plus, in truth, this whole Celtis III operation began with a pretty glaring attempt to target Picard, with bait, that he, out of every other active officer in the fleet, was the only one conveniently experienced to deal with. It was fairly evident that this Cardy ruse was specifically designed to entrap the Enterprise & her captain. (As we'd later discover, to obtain the Minos Korva defense plans)
As such, upper command likely deliberately sent the D, because that was the ship they were trying to trap, & they wanted to let the ruse play out a little more... except dealing them Jellico "The Cardassian Cuckholder" instead of Mr. Target Picard in command.
It reminds me of the Admiral Jarok ruse (The Defector) that Tomalok had arranged, after his humiliation at the Golorndon Core. (The Enemy) Picard shows up an adversary, (then Romulan, now Cardassian) & that paints a target on his back for future retribution. The disturbing part is where Nechayev is so willing to use him as bait.
I use to think she was just stupid for letting him fall into such an obvious trap, but now I think she knew exactly what would happen, & she used Picard. Albeit, she shrewdly put Jellico in there, knowing Riker was too sensitive for it, because Picard was going to get trapped, & Will was going to get butthurt about it, as usual, & make the mistake of mounting a rescue. (which he even argued for) That would've caused a political incident, where the UFP look like aggressors, which is what the Cardies were deliberately hoping for.
I think the only thing that kept this from utter catastrophe WAS that she sent Jellico to do things the way he did. That's the one thing the Cardies weren't expecting. They'd hoped to capture Picard while in command of the D, & expected his crew to attempt a rescue, & cause an incident
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War, no. It's mostly a bluff, but Starfleet really doesn't know that yet, & must at least consider it a viable threat of war. The Cardassian majority don't want another long war, but fringe elements doing things, still makes sense, if they want to cause an incident, that colors Starfleet as an aggressor, so they have some political leverage to get back their disputed Neutral Zone systems, via the negotiating table (like Jellico suggested)
Lemec seems to be spearheading this, with a makeshift fleet in the nebula... and it kind of makes sense, if they're loosing their foothold at Bajor, for some elements to try to regain other contested territory, just before they start backing down. Once the Bajor abdication takes place, they really don't have the metal to be demanding systems back. So, somebody cooks up a scheme to try to dupe Starfleet into offering them, out of embarrassment
It may well have worked too, if Starfleet had simply ordered Picard, with the D, over to Celtris III, & then he got captured, investigating this theta band carrier wave nonsense, because he's the only guy who's experienced with it. Then, Riker is in command, making a Picard rescue his top priority, because daddy issues, which would play right into their hand, as the only way to do that would be a strike on Madred's facility.
Now, they're doing special ops in Cardy space & the flagship is assaulting a place to get back their operatives. It's a bad look, that might tip the scales politically, making a war unnecessary, even though they'll act like they're ready for one. It's also a risky gamble, because even if the Cardies don't want war, this has the potential to cause one regardless, if it plays out badly. Fortunately, Starfleet really doesn't want one either, even though they might be better readied than they were, back when they turned a blind eye & offered up Ben Maxwell (who was likely right) just to keep the peace.
Not to stamp his authority.
If I have 1,000 lives directly depending on me and the future of the UFP often hangs in the balance in our adventures, I'm running things the way I think is best, not the way the last guy thought.
Maybe he believes 8 hours is too long to maintain peak focus, so he likes six-hour shifts where everyone stays a little bit fresher. Now he abandon's his belief and there's an attack in the last 30 minutes of Gamma shift that claims lives. "Dammit, If they'd been sharp and fresh and alert after just coming on, Delta shift might have reacted faster and be alive right now. Never again do I follow someone else's system!"
EDIT
Or I could have kept reading for two more posts
I'm coming in a bit late so sorry if I've missed anything when I respond to these.
There is zero proof that his request was reckless and I'd argue it's not even micro managing as it's a broad instruction on how the ship operates. But as viewers we don't have any information on his previous commands or the benefits of a different shift rotation.
And as he's brought in to take on the flagship, he's clearly not a nobody and has earned a good reputation within Starfleet.
QED. You need to realise that you're a human watching a constructed TV show. Just because he doesn't have a history in the show doesn't mean he doesn't have a history. It doesn't mean he was hatched out of an egg and put on the Enterprise.
I'm very curious to what experience you have of managing a starship, and Jellico's previous experience.
There is zero proof that his request was reckless and I'd argue it's not even micro managing as it's a broad instruction on how the ship operates. But as viewers we don't have any information on his previous commands or the benefits of a different shift rotation.
And as he's brought in to take on the flagship, he's clearly not a nobody and has earned a good reputation within Starfleet.
QED. You need to realise that you're a human watching a constructed TV show. Just because he doesn't have a history in the show doesn't mean he doesn't have a history. It doesn't mean he was hatched out of an egg and put on the Enterprise.
Firepower matters. Maybe a squadron of Defiant class ships would have been better, and diverted fewer personnel than either the Enterprise or the Cairo. Too bad the ship was mothballed.So for the Cardassians - size matters.
On DS9, the change proved positive. But that's probably because Sisko and Kira were good managers, and did the job right:
1. Wait for a period of routine operations, to allow for shakedown time.
2. Consult with your department heads and address their concerns before making the change. This includes training existing personnel, and transferring in new ones.
3. Evaluate the change, and make it permanent if it works out (and it did).
There IS proof. Riker did due diligence: he consulted the shift heads. They told him under no uncertain terms that the change would cause severe personnel issues. So, like the professional he was, Riker waited on making the change until he could make Jellico aware if the difficulties. Jellico demanded that he do it anyway. Delta Shift was most likely a cobbled together mess, and the other three shifts lost significant efficiency due to being cherrypicked of essential personnel.
Riker was correct in the matter of the shift change. And yes, he was wrong about Picard. Acknowledging a covert operation of that nature is generally a bad idea, and it wasn't even Jellico's call (it was Necheyev's). But it was still Riker's job to point out an action he saw as a mistake.
Ironically it would later be Picard who declared Riker to be his "Number One Dad!"
I liked Jellico. I liked how he shook things up, and I’ll always be grateful to him for finally making Troi wear blue.
How he handled communication, though—that was a different story. That scene where he beamed the Cardassians aboard just to keep them waiting, leaving Riker and Troi confused on the bridge, was the part that annoyed me the most. Jellico might be a great captain, but his leadership style is pretty authoritarian, and honestly, it kind of shows his insecurity.
But Jellico’s character ultimately made audiences appreciate Picard even more. So, here’s to Jellico. I’d even go so far as to say he was right to call out Riker. It was a little out of character for Riker to act the way he did, I’ll admit. But overall, Jellico was right—Riker had gotten a little too comfortable as first officer, used to the same captain for so long. In the long run, it was good for Riker to see how he’d handle working under someone new.
That said… yeah, Jellico was definitely a jerk, too.
How he handled communication, though—that was a different story. That scene where he beamed the Cardassians aboard just to keep them waiting, leaving Riker and Troi confused on the bridge, was the part that annoyed me the most. Jellico might be a great captain, but his leadership style is pretty authoritarian, and honestly, it kind of shows his insecurity.
But Jellico’s character ultimately made audiences appreciate Picard even more. So, here’s to Jellico. I’d even go so far as to say he was right to call out Riker. It was a little out of character for Riker to act the way he did, I’ll admit. But overall, Jellico was right—Riker had gotten a little too comfortable as first officer, used to the same captain for so long. In the long run, it was good for Riker to see how he’d handle working under someone new.
That said… yeah, Jellico was definitely a jerk, too.
THAT forgives a multitude of sins. He also let Data be first officer, and he rocked it.
Give me Jellico and a crew of Worfs and Data's, and they'll GET IT DONE!
I see what you did there
