Retroactive justification for Riker's friction towards Jellico?

[Shamrock Holmes]

Jellico: How many duty watches does the crew stand?
Riker: We have a standard three shift rotation.
Jellico: I'd like to change that to four starting tonight.

No, it is a suggestion because he's not in command. Note, once that Jellico arrogantly dismisses Riker's concerns after he is in command, Riker immediately impliments the order he has now been given by his commanding officer, despite his reservations.

IMO, the fact that Jellico continues to run roughshod over the crew and endanger the crew and the ship with his reckless and arrogant micro-managing proves that Riker was in the right the first time and while legally in the right the second, was morally and ethnically wrong.

Now, Riker did eventually lose his temper with Jellico and go out of line, but note that that didn't have any to do with Jellico's commanding of the ship but rather his callous but perhaps necessary conduct of the diplomatic negotiations.

 

[Tomalak]

I swear that "Jellico: yay or nay?" has been the backbone of this forum since it started.

 

[BK613]

Hmm, nothing in the dialog that suggests that the length of the shifts, however long they were, had changed. Only that the pool of shift-standers, which was divided into thirds, was now supposed to be divided into fourths.
Which results in fewer people available per section to man the same amount of stations or whatever. If one's department, lab, etc, didn't actually have enough people to do that, it would be a problem.

 

[Tosk]

I swear that "Jellico: yay or nay?" has been the backbone of this forum since it started.

If only we had gotten an episode where Jellico and Tuvix met.

No, it is a suggestion because he's not in command.

Should we pretend that Riker was under no obligation to do as he was asked by a superior officer that he knew full well would officially have command in the next scene?

 

[Mudd]

Riker commanded the Enterprise in defeating a Borg invasion of the Federation that destroyed much of Starfleet.

Jellico was...not much of anybody, really.

End of debate.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Should we pretend that Riker was under no obligation to do as he was asked by a superior officer that he knew full well would officially have command in the next scene?

Yes, he was under the obligation to do everything he needed to prepare to do it... which he did. But as Jellico was not his superior officer at the time, he was not obliged to implement what he considered to be an appropriate and unwise procedure until after Jellico did have the authority to issue the order.

 

[BK613]

Yes, he was under the obligation to do everything he needed to prepare to do it... which he did. But as Jellico was not his superior officer at the time, he was not obliged to implement what he considered to be an appropriate and unwise procedure until after Jellico did have the authority to issue the order.

Yeah, pretty much this. Jellico was premature and out of line orderting Riker to change the operational structure of the Enterprise while it was still Picard's command.

 

[Tosk]

Jellico was premature and out of line orderting Riker

But Shamrock said it was a suggestion, not an order! Now I don't know what to think!

 

[BK613]

But Shamrock said it was a suggestion, not an order! Now I don't know what to think!

Well, Jellico thought it was an order Riker had to follow.
But Riker wasn't his to command yet because he wasn't Riker's commanding officer yet.
And it was Jellico's mistake to expect that an order he wasn't authorized to give would be done before he even assumed command.
Not as if Riker sat on his hands about it either.

(And, as an aside, there is a line that where Jellico mentions 'already missing the Cairo' and I always snark at the screen, wondering if the Cairo misses him. Probably not. )

 

[Forbin]

The episode paints Starfleet in a poor light. Jellico is not taking feedback and Riker is unwilling to engage with his superior officer. Picard is sent on a completely inappropriate field mission, rather than relying on intelligence assets.

I'd say it mainly paints the writers in a poor light.

 

[BK613]

I'd say it mainly paints the writers in a poor light.

There. Are. Poor. Lights.

 

[fireproof78]

I'd say it mainly paints the writers in a poor light.

True. It's a prime example of Trek shooting for drama first.

 

[Mudd]

The drama always comes first.

 

[DonIago]

Given the premise that Riker wasn't obligated to listen to Jellico because Jellico wasn't (officially) in command yet, I'd find it hilarious if it turned out that the order of those two scenes had been shifted around during the editing process and that originally Jellico was going to talk to Riker after the transfer-of-command ceremony.

(I haven't seen the two episodes in years, so if there's dialog that contradicts my rumination, alas!)

 

[Tosk]

(I haven't seen the two episodes in years, so if there's dialog that contradicts my rumination, alas!)

There is. Sorry.

 

[DonIago]

Darn it!