Retroactive justification for Riker's friction towards Jellico?

[Tomalak]

This is an element that stretches back to Riker's prototype, Decker in Phase II/TMP. In that case, he and Kirk clashed, and didn't really begin to click until they're outside the cloud and Kirk snaps at Decker about him constantly advising they take a more aggressive stance, and Decker retorts that his job is to provide Kirk with every alternative, and Kirk suddenly Gets It about Decker's style as a first officer.

Ah, my favourite scene in TMP:

"Stop! Com. PetingwithmeDecker!"

 

[Nerys Myk]

(And, as an aside, there is a line that where Jellico mentions 'already missing the Cairo' and I always snark at the screen, wondering if the Cairo misses him. Probably not. )

Left at maximum warp.

 

[flandry84]

Perhaps knowing that the crew were disturbed by Picards sudden departure,Jellico wanted to keep them further off kilter by instigating the changes he demanded.
Why?And why when the ship was possibly heading into an extremely tricky situation?So they would obey his commands without question??
Seems implausible.
Actually the whole scenario seems implausible,if Fleet command wanted Jellico on scene,why not just divert the Cairo?
Leave Riker to run the Enterprise and everything is as best as you can make it.
As someone upthread said..TNG opted for drama above everything else.

 

[Mojochi]

Actually the whole scenario seems implausible,if Fleet command wanted Jellico on scene,why not just divert the Cairo?
Leave Riker to run the Enterprise and everything is as best as you can make it.
As someone upthread said..TNG opted for drama above everything else.

Plot convenience lol. It's always the case that the Enterprise is the "only" ship that can do it. At least that was Nechayev's claim. They wanted the flagship to be the one to handle it as a show of strength, but with a new captain. It's sort similar to how all of a sudden Will Riker (& not Data) is the "best" shuttle pilot on board. Ok, that's convenient too. Since when can he pilot better than an android?

 

[suarezguy]

Still the episode harmed Riker as a character but nobody in the writers room seemed to care.

A few people do complain about him in it but most people who dislike him do just say he should have been/remained Captain since Season 4, that not happening ruined him.

I think a lot of you are giving Riker more benefit than he deserves. He was borderline petulant because Starfleet didn't let him keep command of the ship with Picard away.

Riker's behavior in these episodes was incredibly unprofessional. He was the XO and should have set a better tone for those under him, but he was too absorbed with his own petty resentment to manage it.

I think it's excessive hostility to interpret that it was just about himself and him feeling hurt rather than at least thinking he was going for what he thought was best for the crew.

The show cast is generally criticized for being too flawlessly idealized and then the few times they do have flaws and errors that is really condemned as horrible writing and unprofessionalism.

Riker acted unprofessional and had one of his subordinates acted towards him like he did to Jellico we all know Riker would have puffed up his chest and read them the riot act. Remember how he treated Shelby for example?

Interesting comparison in that (aside from that Picard may have thought her jumping over him was unusual, iffy but not clearly obviously wrong) Riker was initially steamed and yet later came to think her very different style and inclinations could be contributory.

 

[Tosk]

if Fleet command wanted Jellico on scene,why not just divert the Cairo?

Evidently because they wanted the Galaxy class Enterprise and not an Excelsior class.

"But a Galaxy class ship, that's something special."

 

[Mojochi]

The show cast is generally criticized for being too flawlessly idealized and then the few times they do have flaws and errors that is really condemned as horrible writing and unprofessionalism.

I never thought that writing Riker this way was bad writing. Quite the opposite. I think it's the beginning of the best writing they ever did for him. Between Chain of Command & The Pegasus, they successfully reconned his whole character arc (at least in my head canon)

But it does rather undermine his character, in being what he was introduced to us as. It paints a picture of a guy who has hangups about subordinance & confidence issues about becoming a captain, which work to explain & justify a lot of his character inconsistencies.

I'm always supportive of giving the characters ambiguity. I was never more riveted than when Worf refused to aid a dying Romulan in The Enemy. Riker being a dick with a dark past & some hangups, is a smart move, if you're going to bother keeping him around after BoBW

 

[flandry84]

"But a Galaxy class ship, that's something special."

So for the Cardassians - size matters.

Somebody will probably make a better Garak joke than I can think of.

 

[Mojochi]

So for the Cardassians - size matters.

Somebody will probably make a better Garak joke than I can think of.

To be fair, when Picard took the D, to deal with the Ben Maxwell situation, the Cardies were pretty shook. Even Maxwell's nebula class wiped out one of theirs, absent its shields to boot. Macet seemed downright appalled that Picard had freely read their transponder codes, & one of his men was doing anything he could to get a glimpse at their weapons systems. The D is probably well discussed back on Cardassia.

Plus, in truth, this whole Celtis III operation began with a pretty glaring attempt to target Picard, with bait, that he, out of every other active officer in the fleet, was the only one conveniently experienced to deal with. It was fairly evident that this Cardy ruse was specifically designed to entrap the Enterprise & her captain. (As we'd later discover, to obtain the Minos Korva defense plans)

As such, upper command likely deliberately sent the D, because that was the ship they were trying to trap, & they wanted to let the ruse play out a little more... except dealing them Jellico "The Cardassian Cuckholder" instead of Mr. Target Picard in command.

It reminds me of the Admiral Jarok ruse (The Defector) that Tomalok had arranged, after his humiliation at the Golorndon Core. (The Enemy) Picard shows up an adversary, (then Romulan, now Cardassian) & that paints a target on his back for future retribution. The disturbing part is where Nechayev is so willing to use him as bait.

I use to think she was just stupid for letting him fall into such an obvious trap, but now I think she knew exactly what would happen, & she used Picard. Albeit, she shrewdly put Jellico in there, knowing Riker was too sensitive for it, because Picard was going to get trapped, & Will was going to get butthurt about it, as usual, & make the mistake of mounting a rescue. (which he even argued for) That would've caused a political incident, where the UFP look like aggressors, which is what the Cardies were deliberately hoping for.

I think the only thing that kept this from utter catastrophe WAS that she sent Jellico to do things the way he did. That's the one thing the Cardies weren't expecting. They'd hoped to capture Picard while in command of the D, & expected his crew to attempt a rescue, & cause an incident

 

[Tomalak]

I think that underestimates the factions within Cardassian Central Command - literally a week later, they pull out of Bajor. I think the Picard operation was pushed by hardliners. The bulk of the Cardassian leadership did not favour war, and eventually won out.

 

[Mojochi]

I think that underestimates the factions within Cardassian Central Command - literally a week later, they pull out of Bajor. I think the Picard operation was pushed by hardliners. The bulk of the Cardassian leadership did not favour war, and eventually won out.

War, no. It's mostly a bluff, but Starfleet really doesn't know that yet, & must at least consider it a viable threat of war. The Cardassian majority don't want another long war, but fringe elements doing things, still makes sense, if they want to cause an incident, that colors Starfleet as an aggressor, so they have some political leverage to get back their disputed Neutral Zone systems, via the negotiating table (like Jellico suggested)

Lemec seems to be spearheading this, with a makeshift fleet in the nebula... and it kind of makes sense, if they're loosing their foothold at Bajor, for some elements to try to regain other contested territory, just before they start backing down. Once the Bajor abdication takes place, they really don't have the metal to be demanding systems back. So, somebody cooks up a scheme to try to dupe Starfleet into offering them, out of embarrassment

It may well have worked too, if Starfleet had simply ordered Picard, with the D, over to Celtris III, & then he got captured, investigating this theta band carrier wave nonsense, because he's the only guy who's experienced with it. Then, Riker is in command, making a Picard rescue his top priority, because daddy issues, which would play right into their hand, as the only way to do that would be a strike on Madred's facility.

Now, they're doing special ops in Cardy space & the flagship is assaulting a place to get back their operatives. It's a bad look, that might tip the scales politically, making a war unnecessary, even though they'll act like they're ready for one. It's also a risky gamble, because even if the Cardies don't want war, this has the potential to cause one regardless, if it plays out badly. Fortunately, Starfleet really doesn't want one either, even though they might be better readied than they were, back when they turned a blind eye & offered up Ben Maxwell (who was likely right) just to keep the peace.