Remake of Babylon 5 ?
- Thread starter Lighthammer
- Start date
Now c'mon, you know damned well, we're genetically predisposed to automatically buy the Bigger/Better version of anything we love, everytime it comes out, no matter how many times, they've reached into our pocket for upgrades
Damn straight. That's what I'd like to believe is the case. I'll be paying out again soon for STTNG - this time season 1 on Blu-ray - even though I know at least half the episodes are pretty crappy. Baaah
For me this is a good point that, unfortunately, falls on a lot of deaf ears. I know some who can't tolerate anything they perceive as dated. I sometimes tease them about not liking anything much older than last week. But beyond that I don't waste my breath trying to persuade them of how much they are shortchanging themselves by ignoring a wealth of good work done before they were born.
Hate to say it, but I'm certainly not in that camp. I won't buy a new release of an old series just for some new fangled technology upgrade and a few new commentaries.
I very much admire attempts to clean up continuity slips and stuff to that end or making a huge effort to update graphics.
Sadly, I have to admit, as cool as the new TOS graphic package was, it came off as cheesy to me in a big way. All it did for me was make the rest of the series feel older.
I very much admire attempts to clean up continuity slips and stuff to that end or making a huge effort to update graphics.
Sadly, I have to admit, as cool as the new TOS graphic package was, it came off as cheesy to me in a big way. All it did for me was make the rest of the series feel older.
The saddest part of that is that shows like B5 and the original Battlestar Galactica had state of the art visual effects when they came out. But I knew when the Abyss came out that the sy was no longer the limit on visual effects, which is shame there were so many inventive and creative effects before CGI.
John Dystra left about midway though the season, still though that style of motion control work for spaceships was still revolutionary for television at the time. Buck Rogers would also benefit from motion control and even Jason Of Star Command on Saturday mornings.
Still much of B5's visual effects look iffy now because of bad VHS transfers and the transfer from PAL to NTSC.
Surely the visual effects have been most hurt by the cropping of 4:3 images to fit the wider 16:9 frame on the DVDs (as well as many broadcasts). "The Gathering" shouldn't be the best looking episode of the series in terms of visual effects, but it is, since it's the only one presented in 4:3 on home video.
Yeah that was certainly part of it too, but some of the probems came from the Sci-Fi channel too. This is from B5's Wiki article.
I'd like to steer this discussion into a slightly different area, where, instead of talking about a remake of B5 in general, we get down to 'brass tacks', as it were. Pretend for a moment that a remake of B5 * IS * happening: what do you want to see and what don't you want to see in terms of deviations from the original? How far is 'too far' in terms of making a new B5 distinct enough from its predecessor that it isn't just the 'same old thing' but is still sufficiently and recognizably B5?
I've done a lot of thinking about a B5 remake/reboot in the past, and have long thought that redoing the series would be a golden opportunity to stick closer to JMS' original concepts for the series while, at the same time, utilizing the full scope and breadth of the story as it ultimately played itself out. For example, I sat down and I thought about the ideal cast of characters for a B5 reboot and came up with the following:
Series Regulars
Jeffrey Sinclair
Laurel Takashima
Michael Garibaldi
Stephen Franklin
Talia Winters
Lyta Alexander
Delenn
Londo Mollari
G'Kar
Major Recurring Characters
Kosh Naranek
Lennier
Vir Cotto
Na'Toth
Zack Allan
Carolyn Sykes
Morden
Alfred Bester
You'll notice that I included both Talia and Lyta as series regulars. This was done because another story point that was obviously intended to be a major part of the series' backstory was the role of telepaths in B5's universe, and felt that, to that end, the series would be best served by having two telepaths as main characters, particularly since they are such fundamentally different characters and have very little in common other than that they're both female telepaths. Talia would be the 'commercial telepath' and be our 'in' to the complicated world of the Psi Corps, while Lyta would have a more 'political' role to play in the story.
It also seemed like a no-brainer that Kosh would be a major recurring character rather than a series regular because he could still have a major role in the series, but be allowed to 'come and go' and therefore enhance the enigmatic nature of his character.
It should be noted that other characters, such as Sheridan, Ivanova, Lockley, etc. would show up as things progressed, although their roles would differ ever so slightly in terms of how they were utilized in the original B5.
Edit: I didn't realize that I'd forgotten to include Franklin; he's part of the Series Regulars list now.
I've done a lot of thinking about a B5 remake/reboot in the past, and have long thought that redoing the series would be a golden opportunity to stick closer to JMS' original concepts for the series while, at the same time, utilizing the full scope and breadth of the story as it ultimately played itself out. For example, I sat down and I thought about the ideal cast of characters for a B5 reboot and came up with the following:
Series Regulars
Jeffrey Sinclair
Laurel Takashima
Michael Garibaldi
Stephen Franklin
Talia Winters
Lyta Alexander
Delenn
Londo Mollari
G'Kar
Major Recurring Characters
Kosh Naranek
Lennier
Vir Cotto
Na'Toth
Zack Allan
Carolyn Sykes
Morden
Alfred Bester
You'll notice that I included both Talia and Lyta as series regulars. This was done because another story point that was obviously intended to be a major part of the series' backstory was the role of telepaths in B5's universe, and felt that, to that end, the series would be best served by having two telepaths as main characters, particularly since they are such fundamentally different characters and have very little in common other than that they're both female telepaths. Talia would be the 'commercial telepath' and be our 'in' to the complicated world of the Psi Corps, while Lyta would have a more 'political' role to play in the story.
It also seemed like a no-brainer that Kosh would be a major recurring character rather than a series regular because he could still have a major role in the series, but be allowed to 'come and go' and therefore enhance the enigmatic nature of his character.
It should be noted that other characters, such as Sheridan, Ivanova, Lockley, etc. would show up as things progressed, although their roles would differ ever so slightly in terms of how they were utilized in the original B5.
Edit: I didn't realize that I'd forgotten to include Franklin; he's part of the Series Regulars list now.
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Well to that end, why not Ivanova instead of one of them? She's a bigger 'difference' to either telepath, especially as while not just a non-commerical telepath she's barely a telepath, so she's an example of someone for whom telepathy is more of a identity issue than a superpower.
Add to this that JMS planned to have Ivanova introduced as Takashima's second, and to replace Takashima when Takashima was revealed as 'Control', and it works rather well.
Also lacking a doctor... any doctor. Am I really the only person whose favourite human character was Doctor Franklin?
^ Did I forget to include Franklin? I didn't mean to. I've gone back and fixed it (BTW, thanks for pointing it out).
I hadn't thought about using Ivanova to explore the whole telepath angle, to be honest. Deciding that Talia and Lyta ought to both be series regulars if they ever remade B5 was one of the first things that came to me, as was the idea of Kosh being a major recurring character.
I hadn't thought about using Ivanova to explore the whole telepath angle, to be honest. Deciding that Talia and Lyta ought to both be series regulars if they ever remade B5 was one of the first things that came to me, as was the idea of Kosh being a major recurring character.
Kegg pretty much nailed the points that was going through my head reading your post, DigificWriter.
Ivanova was largely intended to be the heel by which the oppression of the telepaths and use of Psi Core was explored. If we wanted to see the story have more impact, she should be a full blown, untrained telepath ranking at P3 or P4. It would make her situation harder to not be something relegated as a "side story" and more of an upfront issue. IIRC from various things I've read in the past, it was largely JMS's intention to have Ivonina take on Lockely's role, except with the Psi Core baggage (thus making her more passionate about the eventual telepath war saga). Note, even a character named Sophie was a primary influence for both characters.
Dr. Kyle would be the logical replacement for Dr. Franklin. I don't know how different the story was supposed to be between two, but as far as I know, it seems Franklin took on Kyle's story almost point for point. Reusing Dr. Kyle would allow for a little different direction with the character.
Zach Allen could probably be all but removed. Sgt Welch was always supposed to take on the overall role Zach Allen played. The main difference is, Welch would have rejected Night Watch from the beginning leading to the conflict we saw where Garibaldi dies in Babylon Squared's flash-forward.
Another reoccurring character missing is Sheridan. IIRC, he was always supposed to become President of the Interstellar Alliance, but he took a back seat to Sinclair in the original story. He was supposed to be Sinclair's main contact to General Haigh. Major Ryan ultimately filled in part of Sheridan's role, however, the first episode we saw Major Ryan in was also the last. Sheridan was intended to reappear more then one token episode. Heck, I think they originally intended on having the character debut in Season 1, but then decided against it once the decision was made to ditch O'Hare.
Ivanova was largely intended to be the heel by which the oppression of the telepaths and use of Psi Core was explored. If we wanted to see the story have more impact, she should be a full blown, untrained telepath ranking at P3 or P4. It would make her situation harder to not be something relegated as a "side story" and more of an upfront issue. IIRC from various things I've read in the past, it was largely JMS's intention to have Ivonina take on Lockely's role, except with the Psi Core baggage (thus making her more passionate about the eventual telepath war saga). Note, even a character named Sophie was a primary influence for both characters.
Dr. Kyle would be the logical replacement for Dr. Franklin. I don't know how different the story was supposed to be between two, but as far as I know, it seems Franklin took on Kyle's story almost point for point. Reusing Dr. Kyle would allow for a little different direction with the character.
Zach Allen could probably be all but removed. Sgt Welch was always supposed to take on the overall role Zach Allen played. The main difference is, Welch would have rejected Night Watch from the beginning leading to the conflict we saw where Garibaldi dies in Babylon Squared's flash-forward.
Another reoccurring character missing is Sheridan. IIRC, he was always supposed to become President of the Interstellar Alliance, but he took a back seat to Sinclair in the original story. He was supposed to be Sinclair's main contact to General Haigh. Major Ryan ultimately filled in part of Sheridan's role, however, the first episode we saw Major Ryan in was also the last. Sheridan was intended to reappear more then one token episode. Heck, I think they originally intended on having the character debut in Season 1, but then decided against it once the decision was made to ditch O'Hare.
I spent a lot of time thinking about which characters would be best served to appear as Series Regulars from the beginning of a B5 reboot, taking pains to look up each character's backstories and weigh them against the 'greater scheme of things' in terms of how I thought B5's story might best play out uninterupted and with as little change as possible, eventually deciding on the roster of characters I posted (which was done in conjunction with another poster, with whom I was planning on collaborating on a VTV version of a B5 reboot project).
I did have roles mapped out for Sheridan and Ivanova, although, because I was planning on making the overall story of B5 play itself out somewhat differently (in order to differentiate and set it apart from the original) than what the original B5 did, their roles were initially going to be somewhat different, as I had decided to have the Agamemnon become a 'precursor' of sorts to the White Star, with Sheridan appearing as its CO and Ivanova as his XO.
I did have roles mapped out for Sheridan and Ivanova, although, because I was planning on making the overall story of B5 play itself out somewhat differently (in order to differentiate and set it apart from the original) than what the original B5 did, their roles were initially going to be somewhat different, as I had decided to have the Agamemnon become a 'precursor' of sorts to the White Star, with Sheridan appearing as its CO and Ivanova as his XO.
Be careful not to trend on the sin of hubris.
If you want to play around with the various casting, I would strongly suggest attempting to read up on JMS's intention for each character and not necessarily what we saw.
Kegg and I provided a bunch of back-story on the intentions of each of the character.
Talia Winters was only ever in the story because Patricia Tallman got otherwise involved as a stunt double for Paramount. Talia was invented to replace Lyta. Since Anderson decided to leave the series and Tallman freed up her schedule to rejoin the series, the characters essentially swapped back to their original positions (Lyta fulfilling the role and Talia essentially "disappearing from the universe").
Its noteworthy that Garibaldi was originally intended to form a deeper relationship with Lyta then he ever did with Talia. Allen's association with Lyta was an attempt to fulfill the original intent between Garibaldi and Lyta.
If you want to play around with the various casting, I would strongly suggest attempting to read up on JMS's intention for each character and not necessarily what we saw.
Kegg and I provided a bunch of back-story on the intentions of each of the character.
Talia Winters was only ever in the story because Patricia Tallman got otherwise involved as a stunt double for Paramount. Talia was invented to replace Lyta. Since Anderson decided to leave the series and Tallman freed up her schedule to rejoin the series, the characters essentially swapped back to their original positions (Lyta fulfilling the role and Talia essentially "disappearing from the universe").
Its noteworthy that Garibaldi was originally intended to form a deeper relationship with Lyta then he ever did with Talia. Allen's association with Lyta was an attempt to fulfill the original intent between Garibaldi and Lyta.
Lighthammer: Even though I did a bunch of research, I have to admit that I never came across the details you and Kegg talked about regarding Ivanova and Sheridan, and had therefore planned on them filling the roles they had taken on during the original series, even if they started out in different places initially.
Some of this stuff is burred under years and years of dust sadly.
I almost wish JMS would release a book entitled "The Babylon 5 that wasn't" just to put everything out there.
In other subjects, I decided to go rewatch The Gathering. I wanna see more of Laurel Takashima. I think her story would have been fascinating instead of latching it onto Talia's.
I almost wish JMS would release a book entitled "The Babylon 5 that wasn't" just to put everything out there.
In other subjects, I decided to go rewatch The Gathering. I wanna see more of Laurel Takashima. I think her story would have been fascinating instead of latching it onto Talia's.
I'm sure much of the backround info is in the script books. And at this year's Marcon there was a panel similar to that idea and Neroon was on that panel, maybe he can tell what went on in that panel.
