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Regeneration

But he hasn't...in The Naked Time, it's Riker who spots the connection to TOS, not Data...

In Up The Long Ladder it is again Riker who spots that the sound is an ancient distress signal and Picard who thinks to check the loading records...

You're assuming facts without presenting any evidence...

Evidence such as? You do know this is a fictional program being discussed here don't you?

Anyway, nothing you refer to is anything like as big an event as what happened in Regeneration to the forthcoming Federation President and most famous ship in Starfleet history.

You think if George Washington had fought off a bunch of zombies in the years before his presidency we wouldn't know about it now? And that's without the use of the unimaginably-powerful computers depicted in Star Trek?

Of course we would. You're onto a loser here.
 
But he hasn't...in The Naked Time, it's Riker who spots the connection to TOS, not Data...

In Up The Long Ladder it is again Riker who spots that the sound is an ancient distress signal and Picard who thinks to check the loading records...

You're assuming facts without presenting any evidence...

Evidence such as? You do know this is a fictional program being discussed here don't you?

Anyway, nothing you refer to is anything like as big an event as what happened in Regeneration to the forthcoming Federation President and most famous ship in Starfleet history.

You think if George Washington had fought off a bunch of zombies in the years before his presidency we wouldn't know about it now? And that's without the use of the unimaginably-powerful computers depicted in Star Trek?

Of course we would. You're onto a loser here.

No, I'm presenting an argument based on the facts at hand...if we're going for the fact that it's all fiction then the information was lost in 2187 when proto-memory alpha was invaded and destroyed by mysterious beings known as the "Vashta-Narada" (but it's ok, because there's a banana grove there now)

Your argument lacks coherence...you say that it should be down to Data to know because he knows all about mundanities, until it becomes clear that he doesn't know about them...you then say that well it should be some thing that everyone should know, except that before you said that it should only be something Data knows...

I'm not onto a loser here at all...the evidence supports what I'm saying...you can build a wonderful conjectural argument, but there's a reason why yours keeps changing but mine keeps growing - I can back mine with evidence...
 
I enjoyed "Regeneration". I thought it was suspenseful and engaging...especially as the scientists began to work on the cybernetic beings (aka the Borg). "The Thing" was mentioned up the thread. I too thought it was reminiscent of that movie.

As far as Picard not knowing about the incident, incidents get covered up and/or lost to time. The scientists had also been killed or assimilated so that eliminated eye witnesses. Without the scientists making reports or telling others about the incident, it probably wouldn't have gone far on the information highway.
 
Guinan was the resident "expert" on the Borg and the Captain's close friend. Data just politely allowed her to take the lead.
 
Actually, I DID learn about Washington fighting off the Zombies during the Battle of Fort Necessity in 1754. But -then again- I am a bit older than many of you here and I read about it in my 5th grade history class.... back before Texas and Kansas had such information removed from the textbooks.

I, too, liked "Regeneration", with the creepy atmosphere and the nod to "The Thing".

It has been a while since I saw the episode, but wasn't the characteristic beginning of the hail
("We are the Borg....") garbled and not understood by the NX-01 crew? Not sure if I recall the Borg ever repeating the message to clarify their intent.

I would say that Data can not know everything. Also, the average person today does not know some pretty basic facts about the terrible events of "relatively" recent WWII so I can accept that the average person (or even a Starfleet member) in the future might not know about the "Space Zombies" from the Archer era, especially if the event was concealed from the general public. I would think, however, that the information would be available to Starfleet crews via the computer records. But who does know what happened to those original records over time? This would not be the first time I have suspended my disbelief while enjoying a Trek adventure!
 
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Without the scientists making reports or telling others about the incident, it probably wouldn't have gone far on the information highway.
After these Borg ran amok on the famous NX01, having a shooting contest in the corridors, half-assimilating the CMO and having a pitched space-battle with the first true Starfleet starship?

Starfleet wouldn't know about this because the scientists didn't make a report?

Have you been drinking?
 
You think if George Washington had fought off a bunch of zombies in the years before his presidency we wouldn't know about it now? And that's without the use of the unimaginably-powerful computers depicted in Star Trek?

Of course we would. You're onto a loser here.
What's to say George Washington DIDN'T fight off a zombie horde? All we can say for certain is that if he did, that information didn't make it to present day.
 
Your argument lacks coherence...you say that it should be down to Data to know because he knows all about mundanities, until it becomes clear that he doesn't know about them...you then say that well it should be some thing that everyone should know, except that before you said that it should only be something Data knows...
What race are the Mundanities?

All jokes aside if you're going to claim to have a cohesive and intellectual argument then you should at the very least be using real words and not made up ones.

you can build a wonderful conjectural argument,
Thank you.

but there's a reason why yours keeps changing but mine keeps growing - I can back mine with evidence...

And you can back it with Mundanities.
 
Except the TNG Borg weren't assimilating and looked nothing like the Ent Borg...

When Trill look exactly like Kriosians and there are hundreds of species physically identical to humans, it's more realistic to think these are two different types of cybernetic species, particularly given the physical distance between the two encounters?
 
Your argument lacks coherence...you say that it should be down to Data to know because he knows all about mundanities, until it becomes clear that he doesn't know about them...you then say that well it should be some thing that everyone should know, except that before you said that it should only be something Data knows...
What race are the Mundanities?

All jokes aside if you're going to claim to have a cohesive and intellectual argument then you should at the very least be using real words and not made up ones.

you can build a wonderful conjectural argument,
Thank you.

but there's a reason why yours keeps changing but mine keeps growing - I can back mine with evidence...

And you can back it with Mundanities.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mundanity

an instance of being mundane: one of the mundanities of everyday life.

It's called the English Language...
 
Without the scientists making reports or telling others about the incident, it probably wouldn't have gone far on the information highway.
After these Borg ran amok on the famous NX01, having a shooting contest in the corridors, half-assimilating the CMO and having a pitched space-battle with the first true Starfleet starship?

Starfleet wouldn't know about this because the scientists didn't make a report?

Have you been drinking?
Drinking RC Cola...that's about it.

I said the Scientists wouldn't have been making reports. I didn't mention anyone from the NX-01. However, that could easily fall under "incidents get covered up and/or lost to time." There could be any number of reasons why the information didn't go far at Starfleet. Also, it would depend on what Captain Archer and the crew actually wrote in their reports. If they were vague with their reporting, then that could lend itself to it being buried in time.
 
Even if Starfleet HQ was blown up during the Romulan Wars, and pretending for a second that they didn't have any off-site backups, the data and reports would have been on Enterprise's computers - and we know from "These Are the Voyages" that the Enterprise NX-01 is in the fleet museum. Troi visited when she was a little girl.
 
Even if Starfleet HQ was blown up during the Romulan Wars, and pretending for a second that they didn't have any off-site backups, the data and reports would have been on Enterprise's computers - and we know from "These Are the Voyages" that the Enterprise NX-01 is in the fleet museum. Troi visited when she was a little girl.
Finally someone with some sense! :lol:
 
Even if Starfleet HQ was blown up during the Romulan Wars, and pretending for a second that they didn't have any off-site backups, the data and reports would have been on Enterprise's computers - and we know from "These Are the Voyages" that the Enterprise NX-01 is in the fleet museum. Troi visited when she was a little girl.
Finally someone with some sense! :lol:

Yes, sense is needed since this thread temporarily devolved into mocking intellectual use of the English language...

Just because those reports and that data survive doesn't mean they're of practical use...Data has in his brain all of Noonien Soong's logs and notes and it's not until Datalore that he makes the connection!

Two Centuries worth of information will just lead to a massive archive of data, imagine googling "cyborg, cube-shaped ship" into Memory-Alpha...that would only have on reference because the wreckage in the Antarctic was from a sphere and the research vessel was neither...

Also, the Borg in Q Who weren't assimilating people and looked physically different to the Borg in Regeneration...

It's too vague!
 
Was Enterprise's final mission fictionalised, then?

I am saying that the holodeck adventure Riker had in TatV was NOT actually a recording of what happened and we can't say that such and such a thing really did happen to Archer just because we saw it on TatV. I imagine that the holonovel would have had a disclaimer: "While this holonovel is based on actual events, some scenes have been dramatised and may not reflect the factuality of what actually occured."

When you watch Ron Howard's "Apollo 13", you understand that things didn't happen exactly the way you saw them. They never said, "Houston, we have a problem." The actual dialogue was slightly different. They changed it to sound better. Same thing with Riker's holonovel.

I can almost get on board with classifying the Enterprise-era Borg encounter from the general public as far as the whole 'protecting the fledgeling space program' goes, but classifying it within Starfleet itself?

What's wrong with Starfleet not wanting anyone below the rank of admiral to know? What is it with this attitude that Starfleet captains always know everything?

But classifying it so that further down the line Starfleet officers don't have access to the information? Let's face it, Data wasn't shy about accessing the information in the Enterprise's computers - "In 2234 a Starfleet ship encountered just such an anomaly blah blah blah" - so if the information was available he would be on it like Neelix on a jailbait Ocampa.

So in the 2250s Starfleet encounters these horrific cybernetic creatures that assimilate people and turn them into their own, and decide to classify this so that when another Starfleet ship encounters them, they have no foreknowledge or information on how they were dealt with the first time round?

Again, what useful purpose would this serve from Starfleet's perspective?

Efficiency.

Or do you really think that as soon as someone gets promoted to captain that Starfleet sits them down and says, "Right, here's everything that was ever classified in the last two hundred years."

Likewise Xindi probes would likely not appear in Earth orbit and cause carnage particularly regularly, but one would still imagine that if an identical one popped up in the 2360s Starfleet would know what it was and have access to a record of it.

I don't think any of this is a particularly unreasonable expectation of an organisation such as Starfleet.

That's a little different.

First of all, we have an attack on earth, killing millions of people and was witnessed by millions more civilians. I imagine people were talking about it on twitter and youtube in seconds.

On the other hand, we have a single isolated research team consisting of maybe half a dozen people who disappeared somewhere out in the middle of nowhere and who were then stopped by a single vessel.

Hardly the same amount of exposure there. I don't see how you can claim that if Data can find information about the Xindi attack then he should thus be able to find infoprmation about the Borg encounter.

...but is it really that ridiculous to assume that an android operations officer who has countless times demonstrated instant recall of the most minor details from throughout Federation history should have at least a passing familiarity of such an encounter via Starfleet records?

I don't think so.

You are assuming Data was ever cleared to read it in the first place. If he didn't have clearance high enough he never would have read it and thus wouldn't be able to mention it, would he?

Evidence such as? You do know this is a fictional program being discussed here don't you?

Then why are you arguing so fervently that Data should have known?

Anyway, nothing you refer to is anything like as big an event as what happened in Regeneration to the forthcoming Federation President and most famous ship in Starfleet history.

You think if George Washington had fought off a bunch of zombies in the years before his presidency we wouldn't know about it now? And that's without the use of the unimaginably-powerful computers depicted in Star Trek?

Of course we would. You're onto a loser here.

Of course, if George Washington travelled through time, fought shapeshifters, helped establish peace with several alien races, then maybe fighting zombies would seem like a pretty quiet day and everyone would remember his more exciting exploits...

In short, the only way that anyone on the Ent D in Q WHo would know what the Borg were was if they either had clearance to read the files (unlikely) or if they had seen them before (which was Guinan, and she did).

Your argument, Sandoval, seems to be that every single thing that ever happened on the NX 01 has been made public knowledge and every starfleet officer has access to it. That is simply ridiculous.
 
Nothing it that essay explains what advantage there would be to classifying such an event.

As far as not telling captains but letting admirals know, since captains are the ones out 'boldly going where no man has gone before' and thus several orders of magnitude more likely to encounter such threads than an overweight admiral stuffed behind desk in San Francisco, I'm puzzled why you need me to explain why captains should be made aware of such significant events even if Starfleet has chosen, inexplicably, to classify them from the majority of officers and crewmen.

But again, why classify it? What does Starfleet gain by not allowing its people access to the information that it loses by letting them know?
 
Even if it weren't classified, chances are Picard hadn't read it. He can't read everything, and in a crisis situation, I can't see him running off to google 'robot space zombies' just in case someones blogged it...
 
"Regeneration" was just one of dozens of hostile species Archer and co. encountered. And even Travis' mother knew about the dangerous situations Enterprise had been in. That this one would be made ultra-top-secret and the others not makes zero sense.
 
On the other hand, we have a single isolated research team consisting of maybe half a dozen people who disappeared somewhere out in the middle of nowhere and who were then stopped by a single vessel.
And the crew of the alien transport ship they attacked, the crew of which they assimilated.
 
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