I love "MANEUVERS". Ome of my favorite early episodes.
Seska was such an excellent villain.
Seska was such an excellent villain.
Re-Watching VOY
- Thread starter Lord Garth
- Start date
Definitely. Voyager as a series lost a step when she left.
After sleeping on it, I bumped up the rating for "Manunevers" from an 8 to a 9. It's not perfect, but it feels like it's firing on all cylinders. Better yet, this is before the Tom Paris "Sorry I'm Late!" subplot started and no Michael Jonas yet. So, this is a good spot to be, as far as Voyager's ongoing story arc this season.
Funny thing: my mind always thinks Seska and Cullah were in more of the season than they actually were.
Funny thing: my mind always thinks Seska and Cullah were in more of the season than they actually were.
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"Resistance"
Right off the bat, watching this episode on the projector was a treat. The Mokra set designs really stand up when seeing them up against an entire wall. The lighting looks neo-noir, and it makes the browns and earth tones stand out.
This episode takes advantage of how different VOY is from DS9. Unlike in DS9 where there's time to build up cultures about aliens, VOY doesn't have that kind of time, with Voyager always running into new aliens. So, sometimes, it has to throw you right into the thick of it and hope you can follow along. That works to this episode's advantage. Voyager got a material it needed from the resistance on the Mokra home world, Janeway, Tuvok, and Torres were captured, Neelix got out and that's all you need to know about the Mokra. Besides their having a very strict, authoritarian streak.
Voyager's bad reputation is following the ship everywhere. Including that they've made more enemies than friends. The man who Chakotay has to deal with is a real asshole and is as difficult as possible while he tries to find Janeway and the others. Seeing Chakotay in command in a battle situation on the bridge is something we don't get to see very often.
The major highlight of this episode is Calem, and old man who the Mokra thinks is a fool and they only let him live to serve as an example to others. He treats Janeway like she's his daughter. He thinks she's his daughter. Then he tells her about her "mother" and how she was captured by the Mokra and is in prison. The same prison where Tuvok and Torres are. I think Mokra has Alzheimer's or at least he's broken down the point where he's seeing only what he wants to see, which has to be some other type of mental illness or unhealthiness. Janeway indulges him, becomes endeared, and he's someone who you feel bad for but still want to root for.
Another thing that stands out is a scene after Tuvok is tortured, then returned to his and Torres figures out the screaming was from him. She thought Vulcans couldn't feel physical pain, then Tuvok explains they can. I like that they left Tuvok's screaming and any depictions of his torture up the imagination of the viewers. We can fill in the blanks by ourselves.
Eventually, the Voyager crew figures out how to rescue Janeway and others, Chakotay gives Paris permission to rescue them, Janeway finds Tuvok and Torres, Calem sacrifices himself to save Janeway, and Janeway and Calem have a touching farewell. Nice of Janeway to play the part of Calem's daughter, so he can die happy as Janeway tells him what he needs to hear.
I think the Mokra are more bark than bite. Not to their own people, but against Voyager. There were a few times where I was surprised they didn't try to destroy Voyager immediately instead of giving them warnings. Either they have a procedure they follow to a fault or Voyager is powerful enough to overpower them in general. I can see why the reputation of Voyager would spread if Voyager is so much more powerful than everyone else. Voyager is something these planets fear. They want to warn as many people as possible so they can be prepared. And the Mokra don't want to show fear or weakness because they're worried what would happen if other worlds and their own people perceived them that way. That's my interpretation anyway.
Overall, this episode very effectively gave us a ton of story in only a little time and made it all work. I was able to see different layers, implicit and explicit, that I could take in and make observations about. I give it a 9.
EDITED TO ADD: Voyager's second season looked like it was having some ups and downs earlier, but now it looks like they're on a streak with the batch of episodes I'm currently on. Let's see how long it holds out!
What do I consider a streak? Any time I give three or more episodes in a row a 9 or 10.
Right off the bat, watching this episode on the projector was a treat. The Mokra set designs really stand up when seeing them up against an entire wall. The lighting looks neo-noir, and it makes the browns and earth tones stand out.
This episode takes advantage of how different VOY is from DS9. Unlike in DS9 where there's time to build up cultures about aliens, VOY doesn't have that kind of time, with Voyager always running into new aliens. So, sometimes, it has to throw you right into the thick of it and hope you can follow along. That works to this episode's advantage. Voyager got a material it needed from the resistance on the Mokra home world, Janeway, Tuvok, and Torres were captured, Neelix got out and that's all you need to know about the Mokra. Besides their having a very strict, authoritarian streak.
Voyager's bad reputation is following the ship everywhere. Including that they've made more enemies than friends. The man who Chakotay has to deal with is a real asshole and is as difficult as possible while he tries to find Janeway and the others. Seeing Chakotay in command in a battle situation on the bridge is something we don't get to see very often.
The major highlight of this episode is Calem, and old man who the Mokra thinks is a fool and they only let him live to serve as an example to others. He treats Janeway like she's his daughter. He thinks she's his daughter. Then he tells her about her "mother" and how she was captured by the Mokra and is in prison. The same prison where Tuvok and Torres are. I think Mokra has Alzheimer's or at least he's broken down the point where he's seeing only what he wants to see, which has to be some other type of mental illness or unhealthiness. Janeway indulges him, becomes endeared, and he's someone who you feel bad for but still want to root for.
Another thing that stands out is a scene after Tuvok is tortured, then returned to his and Torres figures out the screaming was from him. She thought Vulcans couldn't feel physical pain, then Tuvok explains they can. I like that they left Tuvok's screaming and any depictions of his torture up the imagination of the viewers. We can fill in the blanks by ourselves.
Eventually, the Voyager crew figures out how to rescue Janeway and others, Chakotay gives Paris permission to rescue them, Janeway finds Tuvok and Torres, Calem sacrifices himself to save Janeway, and Janeway and Calem have a touching farewell. Nice of Janeway to play the part of Calem's daughter, so he can die happy as Janeway tells him what he needs to hear.
I think the Mokra are more bark than bite. Not to their own people, but against Voyager. There were a few times where I was surprised they didn't try to destroy Voyager immediately instead of giving them warnings. Either they have a procedure they follow to a fault or Voyager is powerful enough to overpower them in general. I can see why the reputation of Voyager would spread if Voyager is so much more powerful than everyone else. Voyager is something these planets fear. They want to warn as many people as possible so they can be prepared. And the Mokra don't want to show fear or weakness because they're worried what would happen if other worlds and their own people perceived them that way. That's my interpretation anyway.
Overall, this episode very effectively gave us a ton of story in only a little time and made it all work. I was able to see different layers, implicit and explicit, that I could take in and make observations about. I give it a 9.
EDITED TO ADD: Voyager's second season looked like it was having some ups and downs earlier, but now it looks like they're on a streak with the batch of episodes I'm currently on. Let's see how long it holds out!
What do I consider a streak? Any time I give three or more episodes in a row a 9 or 10.
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Fantastic, I was expecting to see a "guest appearance" by George Cloony
"Prototype"
Nice stylistic choice at the beginning of the episode with a black-and-white sequence of the Unit 3947 being beamed aboard Voyager, as seen from the Unit 3947's POV. I like that it takes until the end of the Teaser before we see what Unit 3937 looks like, and that we only see it through a reflection. Up until that point, the audience is wondering what it even is.
It takes Torres a while to figure out how to give the Unit 3947 proper energy, by repairing 3947's power module and then adapting it to accept Voyager's plasma energy. Then comes the twist: only the race that build the machines like Unit 3947 could repair or build their power modules. This race was called The Builders, and they went extinct decades ago. 3947 sees Torres as being just like The Builders and wants her to create more power modules, so they can construct more Automated Units.
This leads to an interesting Prime Directive question. Torres brings up an interesting point about helping a species that had become sterile and Janeway has a counterargument that there's a difference between a biological species that had become sterile and the Automated Units that never had the ability to reproduce in the first place. Janeway's correct here in that giving them a new ability to reproduce is a violation of the Prime Directive and could change the balance of power in the Delta Quadrant. But what's interesting is that it contrasts with what Janeway will do in a few seasons when she sides with the Borg to fight Species 8472 when those in the Delta Quadrant were actually hoping that Species 8472 would defeat the Borg. That's getting way ahead of myself but it's the first example that jumped to mind of Janeway taking the exact opposite approach later on. Back to this episode.
The Automated Units look like Maria, the robot from Fritz Lang's 1927 film Metropolis, except anatomically male instead of female. Just like R2-D2, who they act just as polite as. The only difference is the Automated Units are silver instead of copper. And they sound like and speak with Data's inflections.
No surprise that Unit 3947 kidnaps Torres when she tells him that Janeway won't allow her to help them. Being an android in the classical sense, I'm assuming, 3947 looks at things in a binary way: Torres can help, so Torres will help if she's taken away from Janeway. That binary thinking comes back when Torres tries to explain to 3947 that he wouldn't even have been reactivated if Janeway hadn't agreed over Tuvok's objections. But all he sees is that Janeway is an enemy right now, and must be destroyed. There's no nuance. It's black-or-white, yes-or-no, on-or-off, 1-or-0.
The Automated Units try to destroy Voyager and only relent when Torres agrees to build more power modules. When Torres tells Janeway she has no choice, 3947 gets right in front of Torres and takes up a large part of the image on Voyager's viewscreen, looking deadly and dangerous. It's a great directing choice for something like this. It's like something you'd see on the cover of a '50s comic book, but I mean that in a good way.
When Torres is in the lab where 3947 wants Torres to build the power modules, there's a robot skull prominently displayed. The way it looks, it reminds me skulls of the cyborgs from the Terminator movies. Add that to what I described about them earlier, and it's clear the creators of this episode wanted to work in as many easter eggs to other science-fiction as possible. Including other Star Trek, when Torres mentions Data when 3947 asks if there are any androids in her society.
Unit 6263 wants Torres to build a power module before Voyager can repair itself, Torres says she's not sure if she can, and he says that she'll either build a module or she and the Voyager crew will die. If that's not binary-thinking, I don't know what is.
When enemies of the Automated Units, also automated units themselves, attack, it gives Voyager the opening to rescue Torres. You can tell the other side apart because they're copper.
It's revealed that the Pralor (whose automated units are the one's we've been seeing) and the Cravick were enemies, they tried to end the war thus ending their use for the robots. Being a threat to their existence, the automated units now saw the Pralor and Cravick as the enemies and annihilated them before continuing their conflict with each other. Meaning that these Automated Units exist only for war and only care about victory through war. This is no doubt common to a lot of science-fiction works, including -- I'm assuming -- those of Isaac Asimov's. This type of backstory also wouldn't have felt out of place in TOS, if the Enterprise were to have ever encountered warring robots. By the way, the concept of warring robots also sounds just like Transformers.
With the Automated Units fighting each other, Paris is able to take a shuttle and rescue Torres, then Voyager is able to escape. It takes until the last minute, literally, for the Torres to be rescued, but the episode still finds time to see Janeway and Torres to have a heart-to-heart as Torres tells Janeway she had to destroy something she gave life. That's an appreciated button at the end of the episode.
If I were one of the Automated Units, and I had the rate this episode, it would either be a 01 or a 10. Fortunately, I'm not an Automated Unit, so I can find something in-between and give this episode an 8.
Nice stylistic choice at the beginning of the episode with a black-and-white sequence of the Unit 3947 being beamed aboard Voyager, as seen from the Unit 3947's POV. I like that it takes until the end of the Teaser before we see what Unit 3937 looks like, and that we only see it through a reflection. Up until that point, the audience is wondering what it even is.
It takes Torres a while to figure out how to give the Unit 3947 proper energy, by repairing 3947's power module and then adapting it to accept Voyager's plasma energy. Then comes the twist: only the race that build the machines like Unit 3947 could repair or build their power modules. This race was called The Builders, and they went extinct decades ago. 3947 sees Torres as being just like The Builders and wants her to create more power modules, so they can construct more Automated Units.
This leads to an interesting Prime Directive question. Torres brings up an interesting point about helping a species that had become sterile and Janeway has a counterargument that there's a difference between a biological species that had become sterile and the Automated Units that never had the ability to reproduce in the first place. Janeway's correct here in that giving them a new ability to reproduce is a violation of the Prime Directive and could change the balance of power in the Delta Quadrant. But what's interesting is that it contrasts with what Janeway will do in a few seasons when she sides with the Borg to fight Species 8472 when those in the Delta Quadrant were actually hoping that Species 8472 would defeat the Borg. That's getting way ahead of myself but it's the first example that jumped to mind of Janeway taking the exact opposite approach later on. Back to this episode.
The Automated Units look like Maria, the robot from Fritz Lang's 1927 film Metropolis, except anatomically male instead of female. Just like R2-D2, who they act just as polite as. The only difference is the Automated Units are silver instead of copper. And they sound like and speak with Data's inflections.
No surprise that Unit 3947 kidnaps Torres when she tells him that Janeway won't allow her to help them. Being an android in the classical sense, I'm assuming, 3947 looks at things in a binary way: Torres can help, so Torres will help if she's taken away from Janeway. That binary thinking comes back when Torres tries to explain to 3947 that he wouldn't even have been reactivated if Janeway hadn't agreed over Tuvok's objections. But all he sees is that Janeway is an enemy right now, and must be destroyed. There's no nuance. It's black-or-white, yes-or-no, on-or-off, 1-or-0.
The Automated Units try to destroy Voyager and only relent when Torres agrees to build more power modules. When Torres tells Janeway she has no choice, 3947 gets right in front of Torres and takes up a large part of the image on Voyager's viewscreen, looking deadly and dangerous. It's a great directing choice for something like this. It's like something you'd see on the cover of a '50s comic book, but I mean that in a good way.
When Torres is in the lab where 3947 wants Torres to build the power modules, there's a robot skull prominently displayed. The way it looks, it reminds me skulls of the cyborgs from the Terminator movies. Add that to what I described about them earlier, and it's clear the creators of this episode wanted to work in as many easter eggs to other science-fiction as possible. Including other Star Trek, when Torres mentions Data when 3947 asks if there are any androids in her society.
Unit 6263 wants Torres to build a power module before Voyager can repair itself, Torres says she's not sure if she can, and he says that she'll either build a module or she and the Voyager crew will die. If that's not binary-thinking, I don't know what is.
When enemies of the Automated Units, also automated units themselves, attack, it gives Voyager the opening to rescue Torres. You can tell the other side apart because they're copper.
It's revealed that the Pralor (whose automated units are the one's we've been seeing) and the Cravick were enemies, they tried to end the war thus ending their use for the robots. Being a threat to their existence, the automated units now saw the Pralor and Cravick as the enemies and annihilated them before continuing their conflict with each other. Meaning that these Automated Units exist only for war and only care about victory through war. This is no doubt common to a lot of science-fiction works, including -- I'm assuming -- those of Isaac Asimov's. This type of backstory also wouldn't have felt out of place in TOS, if the Enterprise were to have ever encountered warring robots. By the way, the concept of warring robots also sounds just like Transformers.
With the Automated Units fighting each other, Paris is able to take a shuttle and rescue Torres, then Voyager is able to escape. It takes until the last minute, literally, for the Torres to be rescued, but the episode still finds time to see Janeway and Torres to have a heart-to-heart as Torres tells Janeway she had to destroy something she gave life. That's an appreciated button at the end of the episode.
If I were one of the Automated Units, and I had the rate this episode, it would either be a 01 or a 10. Fortunately, I'm not an Automated Unit, so I can find something in-between and give this episode an 8.
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Frakes did a good job directing, as always.
Also love how we get to see the transporter effect through the eyes of the transported... so rarely done.
Also love how we get to see the transporter effect through the eyes of the transported... so rarely done.
I've seen it said before that "VOY is just warmed-over TNG!", but I think "Prototype" is a good argument for the opposite. If this were TNG, Data's presence alone would've made it a completely different episode, because it would've been about comparing and contrasting Data to the Automated Units.
OTOH, I could easily see this as a TOS episode, with only a few changes. The Automated Units would've kidnapped Scotty, just like Torres, but TOS wouldn't put so much focus on Scotty. So, I think the Automated Units would've kidnapped Spock as well. Then Spock and Scotty would have to make it look like they were helping them, while trying to figure out how to escape.
The other change, if it were TOS, is that neither McCoy nor Scotty would argue for the right for the Automated Units to reproduce. Neither would Spock. Maybe a guest-character, depending on the episode. But otherwise, the argument Torres has with Janeway over it is unique to VOY and unique to her.
OTOH, I could easily see this as a TOS episode, with only a few changes. The Automated Units would've kidnapped Scotty, just like Torres, but TOS wouldn't put so much focus on Scotty. So, I think the Automated Units would've kidnapped Spock as well. Then Spock and Scotty would have to make it look like they were helping them, while trying to figure out how to escape.
The other change, if it were TOS, is that neither McCoy nor Scotty would argue for the right for the Automated Units to reproduce. Neither would Spock. Maybe a guest-character, depending on the episode. But otherwise, the argument Torres has with Janeway over it is unique to VOY and unique to her.
"Alliances"
This is an interesting episode to look at. At this point, after a year in show time and real time, I'm starting to think Voyager should be moving beyond Kazon Space, even when factoring in suspending disbelief that it takes about a year to work through space where a particular enemy is common. I could still rationalize it as Mage Culluh and Seska have a vested interest in continually going after Voyager, but that's just the Kazon-Nistrim. And even then, only Culluh's ship. But in this episode? Not only do we have the Kazon-Nistrim and the Kazon-Ogla, but all kinds of Kazon sects. It seems like not only has Voyager not gotten away from Kazon territory, but now they're in the heart of it.
The best I can rationalize it as is that Voyager started off away from the heart of Kazon Space in "Caretaker" and have unwittingly journeyed deeper and deeper into it in the time since. It doesn't help that there are no clear maps of Kazon Space. So, it's like they're lost in the woods, trying to get out, and have only ended up deeper.
It explains why this episode had a cold-open with Voyager in the middle of being attacked by the Kazon and it was the fourth time in such a short amount of time.
Maybe being attacked more than usual is what finally prompted Chakotay to start pushing for Janeway to do things more like the Maquis style. The only thing is, he keeps saying, "We should do it more like the Maquis!" without saying anything specific. I'm with Janeway. If he has anything specific to say, he should say it. Otherwise, Starfleet vs. Maquis is just a distraction from the immediate situation: Voyager vs. the Kazon.
Chakotay thinks they should make an alliance with some Kazon sects. Janeway disagrees. Once again, I agree with Janeway. All indications are that the Kazon, no matter which sect, would negotiate in bad faith. They don't want peace, they want power. They don't want aid from Voyager. They want technology from Voyager. And, as Culluh proves, they won't listen to anything a woman has to say. If it were Kirk, Picard, or Sisko, maybe they might have some luck, though I doubt it since I think the Kazon would just find a way to move the goalposts. But Janeway? No. Their backwards thinking won't allow them to consider anything Janeway has to say under any circumstance. Janeway's first instinct was right: they can't negotiate with the Kazon, nor can they form an alliance with them.
Tuvok compares trying to make making peace with the Kazon to making peace with the Klingons, and he couldn't be more wrong. It's a bad analogy on his part. In TUC, the Klingon Empire had been dealt a serious blow with the explosion of Praxis. They were weakened, vulnerable, and were facing either an end to hostilities or an end to their civilization and survival. The Kazon sects aren't weakened, they're not vulnerable, they have no real civilization, and their survival isn't in danger. They're aggressive. Other than that, they have nothing in common with the Klingons. Tuvok said that 23rd Century Klingons were outlaws. They weren't. In TOS and the TOS Movies, they were Cold War style adversaries of the Federation, similar to the Russians being Cold War enemies to the United States in the 20th Century. If the Klingons back then were "outlaws", they wouldn't have sent a Klingon Ambassador to the Federation Council in TVH while they deliberated over what to do with Kirk. So, Tuvok doesn't know his history. This would be more forgivable if Tuvok were younger and not around during the time of TUC, but he was! Either Tuvok bought into the Propaganda Machine, he doesn't know his history (while trying to use history as an example), or whoever wrote this episode doesn't understand TOS and the mistake wasn't caught or corrected. All of those look bad.
But anyway, when Janeway has no luck with the Kazon, she tries to form an alliance with the Trabe, even though she has reservations about that as well. I think it's a mistake to form an alliance with someone who all of your enemies hate, which will make you an even bigger target. The Kazon just want Voyager's technology. They don't hate Voyager. By allying with the Trabe, now the Kazon would actually hate Voyager. It would become more personal to them, instead of just strategic. So, yeah. Huge mistake, even considering forming an alliance with the Trabe. I'm glad Janeway quickly figured this out when they tried to kill all the Kazon leaders.
This episode marks the beginning of Jonas wanting to aid Seska and the Kazon secretly. It makes sense to me that a member of the Maquis would want to work behind Janeway's back. It especially makes sense once it becomes crystal clear that Torres is firmly on Janeway's side. I like that some of them just don't get that Torres wants nothing to do with Seska. Because Seska seemed like a best friend to Torres, the betrayal cut much deeper for her than it would anyone else.
At the end of the episode, Janeway gives a speech about how they can only rely on themselves. Then they run through the checklist. Voyager can maintain high-warp for a while, they have enough supplies to get them by for two months, and I'm hoping that Janeway doesn't stop for anything. The crew, most of them at least, learn what they should've known at the beginning of the episode.
It seems to me like this episode was meant to raise questions that the writers thought should be raised and addressed them one-by-one in this one episode. Unfortunately, it makes some of the crew look silly for not realizing what they should already know. Particularly Chakotay and Tuvok. Despite that, this was still an episode I enjoyed. I prefer a show have the awareness to raise these questions, rather than not even have them at all, even if it's clumsier than I would've liked. I give this episode a 7.
Next time on Voyager is "Threshold". Should I re-watch it drunk or sober?
This is an interesting episode to look at. At this point, after a year in show time and real time, I'm starting to think Voyager should be moving beyond Kazon Space, even when factoring in suspending disbelief that it takes about a year to work through space where a particular enemy is common. I could still rationalize it as Mage Culluh and Seska have a vested interest in continually going after Voyager, but that's just the Kazon-Nistrim. And even then, only Culluh's ship. But in this episode? Not only do we have the Kazon-Nistrim and the Kazon-Ogla, but all kinds of Kazon sects. It seems like not only has Voyager not gotten away from Kazon territory, but now they're in the heart of it.
The best I can rationalize it as is that Voyager started off away from the heart of Kazon Space in "Caretaker" and have unwittingly journeyed deeper and deeper into it in the time since. It doesn't help that there are no clear maps of Kazon Space. So, it's like they're lost in the woods, trying to get out, and have only ended up deeper.
It explains why this episode had a cold-open with Voyager in the middle of being attacked by the Kazon and it was the fourth time in such a short amount of time.
Maybe being attacked more than usual is what finally prompted Chakotay to start pushing for Janeway to do things more like the Maquis style. The only thing is, he keeps saying, "We should do it more like the Maquis!" without saying anything specific. I'm with Janeway. If he has anything specific to say, he should say it. Otherwise, Starfleet vs. Maquis is just a distraction from the immediate situation: Voyager vs. the Kazon.
Chakotay thinks they should make an alliance with some Kazon sects. Janeway disagrees. Once again, I agree with Janeway. All indications are that the Kazon, no matter which sect, would negotiate in bad faith. They don't want peace, they want power. They don't want aid from Voyager. They want technology from Voyager. And, as Culluh proves, they won't listen to anything a woman has to say. If it were Kirk, Picard, or Sisko, maybe they might have some luck, though I doubt it since I think the Kazon would just find a way to move the goalposts. But Janeway? No. Their backwards thinking won't allow them to consider anything Janeway has to say under any circumstance. Janeway's first instinct was right: they can't negotiate with the Kazon, nor can they form an alliance with them.
Tuvok compares trying to make making peace with the Kazon to making peace with the Klingons, and he couldn't be more wrong. It's a bad analogy on his part. In TUC, the Klingon Empire had been dealt a serious blow with the explosion of Praxis. They were weakened, vulnerable, and were facing either an end to hostilities or an end to their civilization and survival. The Kazon sects aren't weakened, they're not vulnerable, they have no real civilization, and their survival isn't in danger. They're aggressive. Other than that, they have nothing in common with the Klingons. Tuvok said that 23rd Century Klingons were outlaws. They weren't. In TOS and the TOS Movies, they were Cold War style adversaries of the Federation, similar to the Russians being Cold War enemies to the United States in the 20th Century. If the Klingons back then were "outlaws", they wouldn't have sent a Klingon Ambassador to the Federation Council in TVH while they deliberated over what to do with Kirk. So, Tuvok doesn't know his history. This would be more forgivable if Tuvok were younger and not around during the time of TUC, but he was! Either Tuvok bought into the Propaganda Machine, he doesn't know his history (while trying to use history as an example), or whoever wrote this episode doesn't understand TOS and the mistake wasn't caught or corrected. All of those look bad.
But anyway, when Janeway has no luck with the Kazon, she tries to form an alliance with the Trabe, even though she has reservations about that as well. I think it's a mistake to form an alliance with someone who all of your enemies hate, which will make you an even bigger target. The Kazon just want Voyager's technology. They don't hate Voyager. By allying with the Trabe, now the Kazon would actually hate Voyager. It would become more personal to them, instead of just strategic. So, yeah. Huge mistake, even considering forming an alliance with the Trabe. I'm glad Janeway quickly figured this out when they tried to kill all the Kazon leaders.
This episode marks the beginning of Jonas wanting to aid Seska and the Kazon secretly. It makes sense to me that a member of the Maquis would want to work behind Janeway's back. It especially makes sense once it becomes crystal clear that Torres is firmly on Janeway's side. I like that some of them just don't get that Torres wants nothing to do with Seska. Because Seska seemed like a best friend to Torres, the betrayal cut much deeper for her than it would anyone else.
At the end of the episode, Janeway gives a speech about how they can only rely on themselves. Then they run through the checklist. Voyager can maintain high-warp for a while, they have enough supplies to get them by for two months, and I'm hoping that Janeway doesn't stop for anything. The crew, most of them at least, learn what they should've known at the beginning of the episode.
It seems to me like this episode was meant to raise questions that the writers thought should be raised and addressed them one-by-one in this one episode. Unfortunately, it makes some of the crew look silly for not realizing what they should already know. Particularly Chakotay and Tuvok. Despite that, this was still an episode I enjoyed. I prefer a show have the awareness to raise these questions, rather than not even have them at all, even if it's clumsier than I would've liked. I give this episode a 7.
Next time on Voyager is "Threshold". Should I re-watch it drunk or sober?
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Another reason why they are taking so long to get past Kazon space is "JETREL". They made a 'significant detour' to get to Rinax. Likely added a lot more time to get through Kazon space.
(Also a similar thing in "RESOLUTIONS"... they lost months of progress, which gave Culluh and Seska enough time to catch up to them and steal Voyager in the very next episode.)
I like the episode a lot, but I will say Janeway comes off as naive at the end with her speech.
(Also a similar thing in "RESOLUTIONS"... they lost months of progress, which gave Culluh and Seska enough time to catch up to them and steal Voyager in the very next episode.)
I like the episode a lot, but I will say Janeway comes off as naive at the end with her speech.
Drunk, all the way. Since it features a technological breakthrough that changes everything and will never be mentioned again, best not to remember it.
Regarding Alliances, not sure what to rate it yet. But Janeway's eyerolling speech at the end will drop its score precipitously.
"THRESHOLD" is actually a good episode. Only the last few minutes brings it down... the rest of the time, you've got good body horror and great character beats for Tom and a good message about self reflection and self worth.
Sober watching is good. (But that doesn't mean you can't do both...)
Sober watching is good. (But that doesn't mean you can't do both...)
The only two bad things about Threshold is that one, it had them reach Warp 10, which is the biggest technological quantum leap since warp drive... and it's never mentioned again, with no explanation. And two, the salamanders.
^ Really, that's about it. The rest of it is kind of fun. The mutation horror was well done. Tom's tongue falling out back in the day took me aback a bit!
I'm looking forward to hearing how you think so!
I'll try to be open-minded, but no promises. This episode left me with a bad impression in 1996 (a few months before I joined the Internet, so we can't blame online!) and an equally bad impression in 2008, when I gave the entire series a second chance, during a time when I was basically checked out from TrekBBS (so we can't blame here either!).
On the plus side, I'm looking more forward to watching "Threshold" than this movie I only just found out about not too long ago called The Room (2003). Supposedly the worst movie ever. Which I'll definitely watch drunk. A friend of mine asked, "How could you have not have heard of it?!"
"THRESHOLD" has a lot of good in it.
Tom Paris - there are multiple scenes that show great character beats for him. First, we have him figuring out the solution while talking in the Mess Hall with Harry and Neelix... and the joy he exudes when he does, even hugging Neelix for helping him with the idea. It's good to see Starfleet officers just taking joy in solving something.
Second, in his quarters talking with Janeway. He talks about his childhood and how everyone, including his father, said he was special and would do something important when he grew up. There are a couple ways to interpret this: there's seeing this as a possible ego trip, and there is seeing this as unneeded extra pressure to be somebody extraordinary. I tend to look at this as the latter, because coming from a family of a long line of Starfleet officers, there is certainly extra unseen pressure to go that route. Particularly when your father is a high ranking officer. (Given we see his father as an Admiral in the series, he was likely a Commander or Captain by the time Tom was born.) And while we all want our kids to feel special (because they are), sometimes going too hard on saying that can be too much pressure to live up to. Considering how he was kicked out of Starfleet and what happened after, I think it's very possible that the pressure of that simply pushed him into making mistakes he might not have otherwise made. (This is not giving him a pass or excuse for what he did: he made his own choices. But it could certainly shed some light on WHY he lied about getting those officers killed.) It also shows that he seemed to get his feelings of self-worth and self-esteem from others, rather than it coming from internally, which shows a vulnerability about him.
Third, his fear while changing. Obviously, this would frigthten him. Because it SHOULD. This helps humanize him more to the audience because we see not a cocky flyboy, but a guy who is afraid of what is happening.
Fourth, he connects what is happening to him before anyone else, including The Doctor. "The present, the past... is in the future. The future is in the past." It's essentially what happened to him. It shows an intuition and really strong gut instinct that is very much a part of his character. It's likely why he is such a great pilot.
Fifth, his scene at the end. He finally realizes that it isn't other people's opinion of himself that he needs to worry about, it's his own. And that is a very important lesson everyone should learn as early in life as possible. He wanted a "quick fix" to his reputation and what others think of him, but it's never that simple or easy. It starts from WITHIN, not from everyone else.
All of these scenes were very well acted by McNeill.
Body horror - watching him transform from human to VERY evolved human was quite disgusting... and done very well. Particularly him ripping out his own tongue. There were shades of THE FLY here, and as a horror fan, I love this kind of stuff. (This episode won an Emmy for VOYAGER in makeup, after all.)
Warp 10 - I agree that it should have at least been addressed again in the series, but that was a problem with the show itself, not this episode. And Torres DID say they still would need to solve the problem of navigation, which they obviously never did. I can't ding THIS episode for all the others not picking up on Warp 10. Besides... it's a cool idea, being able to exist at all points in space at once. That's a high concept story, which Braga was famous for doing. (And despite him getting clearly burned out by the time ENTERPRISE came around, his TNG years and early VOY years were him giving us some REALLY great stories and episodes.) We already suspend our disbelief with warp drive, transporters, replicators, etc. This is science fiction. Sometimes it's good to just enjoy the ride.
Regarding THE ROOM...
It is a TERRIBLE movie, but the first (and only) time I saw it, it was with my niece and nephew. We had SO MUCH FUN just ripping that movie to pieces. It was one of THE most fun viewing experiences of my life. (Partly because I love these guys like they were my own kids.) Certainly had a far better time watching it with them than I would have alone. It's a truly ABYSMAL movie. It makes SECTION 31 look like CITIZEN KANE.
Given you have a background in actual production, you'll likely find even more to rip to pieces, so I don't think you'll like the movie. Not sober, anyway. But a shared experience, like you were doing MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER 3000? Probably the best route to go.
Tom Paris - there are multiple scenes that show great character beats for him. First, we have him figuring out the solution while talking in the Mess Hall with Harry and Neelix... and the joy he exudes when he does, even hugging Neelix for helping him with the idea. It's good to see Starfleet officers just taking joy in solving something.
Second, in his quarters talking with Janeway. He talks about his childhood and how everyone, including his father, said he was special and would do something important when he grew up. There are a couple ways to interpret this: there's seeing this as a possible ego trip, and there is seeing this as unneeded extra pressure to be somebody extraordinary. I tend to look at this as the latter, because coming from a family of a long line of Starfleet officers, there is certainly extra unseen pressure to go that route. Particularly when your father is a high ranking officer. (Given we see his father as an Admiral in the series, he was likely a Commander or Captain by the time Tom was born.) And while we all want our kids to feel special (because they are), sometimes going too hard on saying that can be too much pressure to live up to. Considering how he was kicked out of Starfleet and what happened after, I think it's very possible that the pressure of that simply pushed him into making mistakes he might not have otherwise made. (This is not giving him a pass or excuse for what he did: he made his own choices. But it could certainly shed some light on WHY he lied about getting those officers killed.) It also shows that he seemed to get his feelings of self-worth and self-esteem from others, rather than it coming from internally, which shows a vulnerability about him.
Third, his fear while changing. Obviously, this would frigthten him. Because it SHOULD. This helps humanize him more to the audience because we see not a cocky flyboy, but a guy who is afraid of what is happening.
Fourth, he connects what is happening to him before anyone else, including The Doctor. "The present, the past... is in the future. The future is in the past." It's essentially what happened to him. It shows an intuition and really strong gut instinct that is very much a part of his character. It's likely why he is such a great pilot.
Fifth, his scene at the end. He finally realizes that it isn't other people's opinion of himself that he needs to worry about, it's his own. And that is a very important lesson everyone should learn as early in life as possible. He wanted a "quick fix" to his reputation and what others think of him, but it's never that simple or easy. It starts from WITHIN, not from everyone else.
All of these scenes were very well acted by McNeill.
Body horror - watching him transform from human to VERY evolved human was quite disgusting... and done very well. Particularly him ripping out his own tongue. There were shades of THE FLY here, and as a horror fan, I love this kind of stuff. (This episode won an Emmy for VOYAGER in makeup, after all.)
Warp 10 - I agree that it should have at least been addressed again in the series, but that was a problem with the show itself, not this episode. And Torres DID say they still would need to solve the problem of navigation, which they obviously never did. I can't ding THIS episode for all the others not picking up on Warp 10. Besides... it's a cool idea, being able to exist at all points in space at once. That's a high concept story, which Braga was famous for doing. (And despite him getting clearly burned out by the time ENTERPRISE came around, his TNG years and early VOY years were him giving us some REALLY great stories and episodes.) We already suspend our disbelief with warp drive, transporters, replicators, etc. This is science fiction. Sometimes it's good to just enjoy the ride.
Regarding THE ROOM...
It is a TERRIBLE movie, but the first (and only) time I saw it, it was with my niece and nephew. We had SO MUCH FUN just ripping that movie to pieces. It was one of THE most fun viewing experiences of my life. (Partly because I love these guys like they were my own kids.) Certainly had a far better time watching it with them than I would have alone. It's a truly ABYSMAL movie. It makes SECTION 31 look like CITIZEN KANE.
Given you have a background in actual production, you'll likely find even more to rip to pieces, so I don't think you'll like the movie. Not sober, anyway. But a shared experience, like you were doing MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER 3000? Probably the best route to go.
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I'm definitely watching The Room with a friend, possibly a few others, depending. There will likely be drinks, but nothing too crazy.
"Threshold"? That's going to be stone-cold sober. We'll see how it goes.
I was originally going to do the next two B5 episodes next, back-to-back as a double-billing (yup, I've already seen them!), but I might as well do "Threshold" first. Why not?
"Threshold"? That's going to be stone-cold sober. We'll see how it goes.
I was originally going to do the next two B5 episodes next, back-to-back as a double-billing (yup, I've already seen them!), but I might as well do "Threshold" first. Why not?
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Never in my life have I ever been so excited to watch something I think will be bad. In a bizarre way, I'm looking forward to watching this as much as I looked forward to watching "Duet", except in complete reverse! I gave originally gave "Duet" in 11 out of 10. What will I give "Threshold"? Not an 11, we'll put it like that. 
I'm imagining I'm at the fair, and I'm on a roller coaster. Before I said VOY was having a streak. So, it's like we're high-up on the roller coaster. Then it came down a little with "Alliances", but only a little. And now, we're about to take the plunge. So, right now, I'm feeling what I'd feel whenever I'd brace myself on the roller coaster.
Watching this video first...
... that was something to see!
And now, I've got the drink -- non-alcoholic! -- ready, I've got the Twizzlers ready. I always get Twizzlers before I go see a movie, I'm giving this the movie treatment because it feels like an event, and here we go! I'll either have a new perspective or the exact same perspective. If I end up liking it this time, I'll say so. But we'll find out soon, because I'm putting on "Threshold" -- are you ready for this? I'm ready for this! -- I'm putting it on in three, two, one...
"Threshold" (1st Part of the Review)
The first 10 minutes of the episode: This isn't VOY's fault, but -- in general -- I've never been a fan of the idea that nothing can go passed Warp 10. Why? Because I think "Warp 9.999999999999999.... " sounds stupid. And the concept of Infinity Speed sounds like something that doesn't make any sense. It's a physical impossibility to be everywhere at once at the same time. And, even if you were everywhere at once, your matter would cancel out everyone else's matter. It doesn't work. The formula for calculating Warp Factors in the TNG Era is the warp factor to three-and-a-third power times the speed of light. They have it working that way for Warps 1 through 9, so Warp 10 should continue that. Warp 10 should be 10^3.3 or roughly 2,000 times the speed of light. Extremely fast, but not infinitely fast.
But, putting that aside, I do like the idea of Paris being about to break a record, that his name could go down in history, and that they run simulations beforehand so they can see if it works.
The Doctor having a concern about Paris having a medical issue where there could be a 2% chance of something happening feels shoehorned in BUT it does provide an opportunity for Paris to tell Janeway about how much he wants to do this and how serious he is about it. I sees this as his calling. Regardless of where it ends up going afterwards, this is a good scene.
Calling the shuttle that Paris is on the Cochrane is a nice touch. First Contact was deep into pre-production by the time this episode was being shot, so the movie must not have been far from Brannon Braga's mind at the time.
After Paris goes to Warp 10, comes out of it, and is retrieved, he says that he was everywhere. That could be something for a God to process, but Paris' human brain can only process so much. Maybe it wouldn't process anything he'd be so overloaded. Overstimulation is a thing. But it all slips away from him, so I take no issue with that.
Paris and Torres look at all the data the shuttle recorded, but unlike infinite speed, it doesn't have an infinite data storage capacity. But Paris and Torres look at what they have... before Paris starts suffering from the first symptoms, it's getting late, and I'll leave it here for now.
For the first 19 minutes, even though I disagree with the basic premise of Infinite Speed, it's executed well. But then there's the rest of the episode. Which I'll watch at another time. I'm honestly really starting to get tired, so I'm heading off the bed and will continue this at another time.
To Be Continued...
I'm imagining I'm at the fair, and I'm on a roller coaster. Before I said VOY was having a streak. So, it's like we're high-up on the roller coaster. Then it came down a little with "Alliances", but only a little. And now, we're about to take the plunge. So, right now, I'm feeling what I'd feel whenever I'd brace myself on the roller coaster.
Watching this video first...
... that was something to see!
And now, I've got the drink -- non-alcoholic! -- ready, I've got the Twizzlers ready. I always get Twizzlers before I go see a movie, I'm giving this the movie treatment because it feels like an event, and here we go! I'll either have a new perspective or the exact same perspective. If I end up liking it this time, I'll say so. But we'll find out soon, because I'm putting on "Threshold" -- are you ready for this? I'm ready for this! -- I'm putting it on in three, two, one...
"Threshold" (1st Part of the Review)
The first 10 minutes of the episode: This isn't VOY's fault, but -- in general -- I've never been a fan of the idea that nothing can go passed Warp 10. Why? Because I think "Warp 9.999999999999999.... " sounds stupid. And the concept of Infinity Speed sounds like something that doesn't make any sense. It's a physical impossibility to be everywhere at once at the same time. And, even if you were everywhere at once, your matter would cancel out everyone else's matter. It doesn't work. The formula for calculating Warp Factors in the TNG Era is the warp factor to three-and-a-third power times the speed of light. They have it working that way for Warps 1 through 9, so Warp 10 should continue that. Warp 10 should be 10^3.3 or roughly 2,000 times the speed of light. Extremely fast, but not infinitely fast.
But, putting that aside, I do like the idea of Paris being about to break a record, that his name could go down in history, and that they run simulations beforehand so they can see if it works.
The Doctor having a concern about Paris having a medical issue where there could be a 2% chance of something happening feels shoehorned in BUT it does provide an opportunity for Paris to tell Janeway about how much he wants to do this and how serious he is about it. I sees this as his calling. Regardless of where it ends up going afterwards, this is a good scene.
Calling the shuttle that Paris is on the Cochrane is a nice touch. First Contact was deep into pre-production by the time this episode was being shot, so the movie must not have been far from Brannon Braga's mind at the time.
After Paris goes to Warp 10, comes out of it, and is retrieved, he says that he was everywhere. That could be something for a God to process, but Paris' human brain can only process so much. Maybe it wouldn't process anything he'd be so overloaded. Overstimulation is a thing. But it all slips away from him, so I take no issue with that.
Paris and Torres look at all the data the shuttle recorded, but unlike infinite speed, it doesn't have an infinite data storage capacity. But Paris and Torres look at what they have... before Paris starts suffering from the first symptoms, it's getting late, and I'll leave it here for now.
For the first 19 minutes, even though I disagree with the basic premise of Infinite Speed, it's executed well. But then there's the rest of the episode. Which I'll watch at another time. I'm honestly really starting to get tired, so I'm heading off the bed and will continue this at another time.
To Be Continued...
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