Or... you could start VOYAGER season 3 after "NOR THE BATTLE TO THE STRONG", the fourth episode of DS9 season 5. It will even out that way.
Re-Watching VOY
- Thread starter Lord Garth
- Start date
"Jake's first real taste of war was so traumatic, it sent me running to Voyager!"Or... you could start VOYAGER season 3 after "NOR THE BATTLE TO THE STRONG", the fourth episode of DS9 season 5. It will even out that way.
"Cathexis"
I liked Janeway's Davenport holonovel. It would've been interesting to see that that fleshed out into a full story. While the Early-20th Century is my favorite historical time period, I like the 19th Century too. The rivalry between Janeway's character, Ms. Davenport, and Mrs. Templeton would've been something I'd have liked to have seen. But then, we're talking about my specific tastes. I don't know how many other people here would've been interested in that. Probably not many.
Then there's Chakotay's out-of-body experience. Chakotay's consciousness being out in space reminds me of "Lonely Among Us" from TNG Season 1, even though the execution is completely different. There are two entities onboard the ship this time: Chakotay and whatever the alien is. It was a bit of a light-horror body-possession vibe as well with the alien tries to take over whoever it can to take Voyager into the nebula.
The lights dimmed gave Voyager an interesting look. The darkness added to the creepiness and the feeling of paranoia. Paranoia fueled by not knowing who would be possessed next.
I noticed they gave Durst a lot of lines in this episode and made him prominent in some shots. This was pretty clearly done so that we'd feel like we're familiar with him when he's killed off next episode in "Faces". I'd say it worked!
That's about all I have to say about this episode. Not that exciting, going through the paces, the paranoia made things interesting for a little bit. I give it a 6.
I liked Janeway's Davenport holonovel. It would've been interesting to see that that fleshed out into a full story. While the Early-20th Century is my favorite historical time period, I like the 19th Century too. The rivalry between Janeway's character, Ms. Davenport, and Mrs. Templeton would've been something I'd have liked to have seen. But then, we're talking about my specific tastes. I don't know how many other people here would've been interested in that. Probably not many.
Then there's Chakotay's out-of-body experience. Chakotay's consciousness being out in space reminds me of "Lonely Among Us" from TNG Season 1, even though the execution is completely different. There are two entities onboard the ship this time: Chakotay and whatever the alien is. It was a bit of a light-horror body-possession vibe as well with the alien tries to take over whoever it can to take Voyager into the nebula.
The lights dimmed gave Voyager an interesting look. The darkness added to the creepiness and the feeling of paranoia. Paranoia fueled by not knowing who would be possessed next.
I noticed they gave Durst a lot of lines in this episode and made him prominent in some shots. This was pretty clearly done so that we'd feel like we're familiar with him when he's killed off next episode in "Faces". I'd say it worked!
That's about all I have to say about this episode. Not that exciting, going through the paces, the paranoia made things interesting for a little bit. I give it a 6.
I actually love "CATHEXIS". The dark and creepy and moody atmosphere helps the paranoia, and it really sells the story well.
Plus, another space dwelling lifeform... the Komar. They live in the nebula itself, which I count as space dwelling.
Plus, another space dwelling lifeform... the Komar. They live in the nebula itself, which I count as space dwelling.
"Faces"
This is one of my favorite Vidiian episodes. Their grotesqueness works in the episode's favor. When the main Vidiian essentially falls in love with Klingon Torres, I feel just as repulsed as I'm sure she does. Gives me the shivers.
This episode is also Voyager's answer to "The Enemy Within" from TOS. Dare I say I like the approach "Faces" took better. (Controversial Opinion!) It's easy to split someone into a Good Half and an Evil Half and point out the differences that way. But here, Torres is split into a Full-Human version and a Full-Klingon version, then the episode examines the differences between her Human half and her Klingon half. One side isn't good or evil, one side isn't positive or negative. Both sides just have different strengths.
The Klingon side of Torres is fearless. The Human side of Torres is courageous when it counts. I never thought of the difference between fearlessness and courageousness before, but in the former you don't have to overcome anything whereas in the latter you do. Human Torres blames Klingon Torres for the reason she got kicked out of the Academy. But I think she got kicked out because she has too much of an independent streak and doesn't take nonsense from people and that's not inherently Klingon, it's not inherently Human. They're just personality traits regardless of what you are.
One thing that is a true duality about Torres is that she likes to fight her way out and figure things out at the same time. The Klingon half liked to fight her way out, the Human half liked to figure things out. When you have both, and you can be both, that makes you adaptive, unlike someone who's all one way or all another way. It's a type of complexity laid bare in this episode that I like. Characters with conflicting impulses feel more real to me than characters who don't.
The Vidiians are waaaayyyyy creepier here than in "Phage". The organ processing center. The prisoners kept like cattle and made to do the dirty work, until they can't and have their organs harvested. It feels like it's a slaughterhouse and keeping up your stamina just delays the inevitable. This is a perfect episode to watch during an October.
The thing that really got me was when Durst was taken and then his face was grafted onto the main Vidiian we see in this episode. YIKES!!!!! That just freaked me the Hell out.
Chakotay's rescue of Human Torres, Klingon Torres, and Paris went a little too perfectly, but I was just glad to see them get out of there. There could've been a more suspenseful escape and that's the only thing knocking this episode down.
Loved the character study of Torres, loved hearing more about her background. I give it a 9.
This is one of my favorite Vidiian episodes. Their grotesqueness works in the episode's favor. When the main Vidiian essentially falls in love with Klingon Torres, I feel just as repulsed as I'm sure she does. Gives me the shivers.
This episode is also Voyager's answer to "The Enemy Within" from TOS. Dare I say I like the approach "Faces" took better. (Controversial Opinion!) It's easy to split someone into a Good Half and an Evil Half and point out the differences that way. But here, Torres is split into a Full-Human version and a Full-Klingon version, then the episode examines the differences between her Human half and her Klingon half. One side isn't good or evil, one side isn't positive or negative. Both sides just have different strengths.
The Klingon side of Torres is fearless. The Human side of Torres is courageous when it counts. I never thought of the difference between fearlessness and courageousness before, but in the former you don't have to overcome anything whereas in the latter you do. Human Torres blames Klingon Torres for the reason she got kicked out of the Academy. But I think she got kicked out because she has too much of an independent streak and doesn't take nonsense from people and that's not inherently Klingon, it's not inherently Human. They're just personality traits regardless of what you are.
One thing that is a true duality about Torres is that she likes to fight her way out and figure things out at the same time. The Klingon half liked to fight her way out, the Human half liked to figure things out. When you have both, and you can be both, that makes you adaptive, unlike someone who's all one way or all another way. It's a type of complexity laid bare in this episode that I like. Characters with conflicting impulses feel more real to me than characters who don't.
The Vidiians are waaaayyyyy creepier here than in "Phage". The organ processing center. The prisoners kept like cattle and made to do the dirty work, until they can't and have their organs harvested. It feels like it's a slaughterhouse and keeping up your stamina just delays the inevitable. This is a perfect episode to watch during an October.
The thing that really got me was when Durst was taken and then his face was grafted onto the main Vidiian we see in this episode. YIKES!!!!! That just freaked me the Hell out.
Chakotay's rescue of Human Torres, Klingon Torres, and Paris went a little too perfectly, but I was just glad to see them get out of there. There could've been a more suspenseful escape and that's the only thing knocking this episode down.
Loved the character study of Torres, loved hearing more about her background. I give it a 9.
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"FACES" may be my favorite produced episode of season 1 ("PROJECTIONS" is pretty neck and neck with it.)
I'm sure everyone knows I have said this before, but I'll repeat it... the Vidiians were THE best villains/species VOY created, and one of the best in the franchise. Their entire existence is a moral dilemma. And as a horror fan, bonus points for their look and what they do to people.
I'm sure everyone knows I have said this before, but I'll repeat it... the Vidiians were THE best villains/species VOY created, and one of the best in the franchise. Their entire existence is a moral dilemma. And as a horror fan, bonus points for their look and what they do to people.
Cathexis has its moments, such as the fight on the bridge that ends with Tuvok just phasering everyone, and the EMH unexpectedly revealing his knowledge of Chakotay's tribal customs. But it's mostly just passable Trek. However, Faces is definitely a creepy episode, and presents the Vidiians as the type of villains they should have been.
As I have said, it's a pity that Durst wasn't the ship's head of operations at first... his death would have put Harry (whose rank and inexperience didn't really justify being a department head) in over his head, creating better character development.
Regarding Torres, this episode was the first in her endless treadmill of her having issues with her Klingon side, accepting it, and then having more issues with it. Still it was an above average presentation, and we were early in the show so it wasn't stale yet. So yes, I agree with your rating of 9/10.
As I have said, it's a pity that Durst wasn't the ship's head of operations at first... his death would have put Harry (whose rank and inexperience didn't really justify being a department head) in over his head, creating better character development.
Regarding Torres, this episode was the first in her endless treadmill of her having issues with her Klingon side, accepting it, and then having more issues with it. Still it was an above average presentation, and we were early in the show so it wasn't stale yet. So yes, I agree with your rating of 9/10.
"Jetrel"
Much like with DS9's "Cardassians", this is an episode that I think is very good but not one that I'm going to re-visit unless it's part of a Re-Watch like this.
This episode reveals some key backstory on Neelix. His family on the colony he lived on, Rinax, was killed by a weapon developed by Haakonian science named Dr. Jetrel, while the Talaxians and the Haakonians were at war. The war started 15 years ago and lasted for 10 years, so it only ended five years ago. It made me think Neelix was part of a war until five years ago, until it was revealed that Neelix never went, he was afraid. In effect, Jetrel's weapon and the devastation it caused is reminiscent of World War II and Neelix avoiding the war essentially reminded me of draft-dodgers during the Vietnam War.
Neelix hates Jetrel for the weapon he developed and he hates himself for being a coward. Both of which ring true. Kes saying that Neelix never told her about the war also rings true. When my grandfather was alive, he never talked to me about World War II. He was in the Navy, stationed in the Pacific. Beyond that, I don't know anything about what he had to deal with or what he saw. Although I do know this song they sang, "I joined the Navy to see the world, and what do I see? I see the sea!" Anyway...
I think a lot of Neelix's happy-go-lucky nature is an act to keep himself from constantly thinking about what happened. Maybe before he lost his family, he really was happy-go-lucky, but now he acts that way to keep from wanting to feel constant pain. Every time he sees, speaks, or talks about Jetrel, it's constant pain.
Then there's Jetrel, played by James Sloyan. Between Jetrel, Dr. Mora from DS9, and Alidar Jarok from TNG, he always plays characters who are judged. Either it's the type of character he likes to play or it's the type of character he keeps getting cast as. Either way. He developed the weapon, which takes apart everything beyond the atomic level. He thinks he can use Voyager's transporter to reconstruct everyone killed, but all the particles are too random, too scattered, there's not enough cohesion, and he can't bring anyone back. He says that he's the scientist who developed the weapon, and if he hadn't then someone else would've, then points out it's the military and the politicians who decided to attack and to make an example of Rinax.
Two people in history who Jetrel reminds me of are J. Robert Oppenheimer and Wernher von Braun. The latter of whom is fresh in my mind because of For All Mankind.
Jetrel also has a life-threatening illness. He isn't able to bring back everyone who was killed by his weapon, which he's made it his life's work these past 15 years to do, and I think in the end Neelix finally recognizes this which is why he finally forgives Jetrel. It's fitting then that the last words Jetrel hears are, "I forgive you."
When Neelix says "I forgive you," I also think he's trying to find some sort of closure and inner-peace. I don't know if he means it, but I think he believes he means it in the moment. Obviously he's still not completely over it, as we'll see later on in the fourth season in "Mortal Coil". These types of things, you can't just turn on-and-off. They come and go in waves. And any episode where I can find this much depth and this many layers in Neelix deserves my respect. That wasn't an easy thing to do.
One other thing I want to point out, which is something that separates Janeway from the other Captains. Kirk and Sisko aren't scientists, and Picard's hobby is archeology, but Janeway has an actual hard-science background, and used to be a Science Officer. She had more of an understanding of Jetrel's work than the other Captains would've, who'd understand the surface details but would leave everything else to others. So, Jetrel found Janeway easier to talk to then he probably would've with the other Captains.
This is a very powerful episode. Just like with "Cardassians", I'm not watching it again unless it's part of a re-watch like this, like I said, but I prefer this episode over "Cardassians" because I think "Jetrel" works as an actual science-fiction story about science and trying to use science to bring people back, even though it doesn't work. Whereas "Cardassians" was really more family law and a child custody battle rather than science-fiction. Anything about "Jetrel" I take an issue with, like Neelix feeling grating on the nerves sometimes, has more to do with Neelix in general rather than the episode in particular, so I won't hold Neelix not being one of my favorite characters against it. I give this episode a 10.
But the context for the 10 is it's an "I was that impressed with the episode!" type of 10 rather than an "I want to watch it again!" type of 10. If that makes sense. The episodes in the latter category of, "I want to watch it again!" that were produced for this season would be "Eye of the Needle" and "Projections". Spoiler for what I think of "Projections"!
Much like with DS9's "Cardassians", this is an episode that I think is very good but not one that I'm going to re-visit unless it's part of a Re-Watch like this.
This episode reveals some key backstory on Neelix. His family on the colony he lived on, Rinax, was killed by a weapon developed by Haakonian science named Dr. Jetrel, while the Talaxians and the Haakonians were at war. The war started 15 years ago and lasted for 10 years, so it only ended five years ago. It made me think Neelix was part of a war until five years ago, until it was revealed that Neelix never went, he was afraid. In effect, Jetrel's weapon and the devastation it caused is reminiscent of World War II and Neelix avoiding the war essentially reminded me of draft-dodgers during the Vietnam War.
Neelix hates Jetrel for the weapon he developed and he hates himself for being a coward. Both of which ring true. Kes saying that Neelix never told her about the war also rings true. When my grandfather was alive, he never talked to me about World War II. He was in the Navy, stationed in the Pacific. Beyond that, I don't know anything about what he had to deal with or what he saw. Although I do know this song they sang, "I joined the Navy to see the world, and what do I see? I see the sea!" Anyway...
I think a lot of Neelix's happy-go-lucky nature is an act to keep himself from constantly thinking about what happened. Maybe before he lost his family, he really was happy-go-lucky, but now he acts that way to keep from wanting to feel constant pain. Every time he sees, speaks, or talks about Jetrel, it's constant pain.
Then there's Jetrel, played by James Sloyan. Between Jetrel, Dr. Mora from DS9, and Alidar Jarok from TNG, he always plays characters who are judged. Either it's the type of character he likes to play or it's the type of character he keeps getting cast as. Either way. He developed the weapon, which takes apart everything beyond the atomic level. He thinks he can use Voyager's transporter to reconstruct everyone killed, but all the particles are too random, too scattered, there's not enough cohesion, and he can't bring anyone back. He says that he's the scientist who developed the weapon, and if he hadn't then someone else would've, then points out it's the military and the politicians who decided to attack and to make an example of Rinax.
Two people in history who Jetrel reminds me of are J. Robert Oppenheimer and Wernher von Braun. The latter of whom is fresh in my mind because of For All Mankind.
Jetrel also has a life-threatening illness. He isn't able to bring back everyone who was killed by his weapon, which he's made it his life's work these past 15 years to do, and I think in the end Neelix finally recognizes this which is why he finally forgives Jetrel. It's fitting then that the last words Jetrel hears are, "I forgive you."
When Neelix says "I forgive you," I also think he's trying to find some sort of closure and inner-peace. I don't know if he means it, but I think he believes he means it in the moment. Obviously he's still not completely over it, as we'll see later on in the fourth season in "Mortal Coil". These types of things, you can't just turn on-and-off. They come and go in waves. And any episode where I can find this much depth and this many layers in Neelix deserves my respect. That wasn't an easy thing to do.
One other thing I want to point out, which is something that separates Janeway from the other Captains. Kirk and Sisko aren't scientists, and Picard's hobby is archeology, but Janeway has an actual hard-science background, and used to be a Science Officer. She had more of an understanding of Jetrel's work than the other Captains would've, who'd understand the surface details but would leave everything else to others. So, Jetrel found Janeway easier to talk to then he probably would've with the other Captains.
This is a very powerful episode. Just like with "Cardassians", I'm not watching it again unless it's part of a re-watch like this, like I said, but I prefer this episode over "Cardassians" because I think "Jetrel" works as an actual science-fiction story about science and trying to use science to bring people back, even though it doesn't work. Whereas "Cardassians" was really more family law and a child custody battle rather than science-fiction. Anything about "Jetrel" I take an issue with, like Neelix feeling grating on the nerves sometimes, has more to do with Neelix in general rather than the episode in particular, so I won't hold Neelix not being one of my favorite characters against it. I give this episode a 10.
But the context for the 10 is it's an "I was that impressed with the episode!" type of 10 rather than an "I want to watch it again!" type of 10. If that makes sense. The episodes in the latter category of, "I want to watch it again!" that were produced for this season would be "Eye of the Needle" and "Projections". Spoiler for what I think of "Projections"!
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James Sloyan also played future Alexander in TNG's "Firstborn".
Oh, God. I'm watching "Learning Curve". I have to pause to say the actor who plays Dalby is way over-the-top. Middle-aged angry man who's pissed off about where he is and thinking that saying things more forcefully makes him right. He'd fit in pretty well on Social Media.
I can't tell if it's bad acting or exactly the right acting, since he reminds me so much of what I've seen. Same applies to when I worked customer service in retail and when I worked in a call center. It seemed like everyone I dealt with was in a competition to see who could be a bigger asshole. And all of them seemed over-the-top as well. Except it was Real Life.
EDITED TO ADD: Just finished the episode. Have to go get going, though, but some thoughts when I have more time. Kind of okay, but definitely not a "season finale" type of episode. Sorry UPN.
I can't tell if it's bad acting or exactly the right acting, since he reminds me so much of what I've seen. Same applies to when I worked customer service in retail and when I worked in a call center. It seemed like everyone I dealt with was in a competition to see who could be a bigger asshole. And all of them seemed over-the-top as well. Except it was Real Life.
EDITED TO ADD: Just finished the episode. Have to go get going, though, but some thoughts when I have more time. Kind of okay, but definitely not a "season finale" type of episode. Sorry UPN.
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