Ranks of characters

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Little_kingsfan, Jan 28, 2016.

  1. Little_kingsfan

    Little_kingsfan Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    You're right, it doesn't matter. I'm just one of those guys who likes to know what rank all the Starfleet officers hold. And unless you say otherwise, I'm going to believe they are both full Admirals.

    In addition to ADM Bullock, I believe Uhura is a four-star admiral in Catalyst of Sorrows. Speaking of Uhura, I was under the impression that she retired in 2360 at the end of the novel, but then in the Vulcan's Soul trilogy, she was seen still on active duty in 2377. Is this simply a case of the Vulcan's Soul wanting to use all TOS characters or just two separate continuities?
     
  2. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Captain Captain

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    Could be either, or both. I'd probably favour Catalyst of Sorrows' version due to it being an ongoing part of TrekLit, however while TrekLit has got a lot better about inter-book consistency in the last ten years or so, but there's still no requirement that this is so, as the books are provisional canon at best and even then only within themselves so it's difficult to say.
     
  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Unless it's specified which grade they are, just assume all Starfleet admirals in the novels are Vice Admirals. After all, 90% of the admirals seen in the show are Vice Admirals
    IIRC, she was only contemplating retiring until she had an encounter with a young Luther Sloan, who she had a bad feeling about and then decided against retiring.
     
  4. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Captain Captain

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    Rough analysis of Memory Alpha identifies 32 Rear Admirals and Commodores (of which 20 are confirmed 1-stars), 36 Vice Admirals, 11 Admirals (4-stars) and 8 Admirals with either 5-star insignia or referred to as Chief of Staff or Starfleet Commander or Commander, Starfleet, there are also 33 Admirals mentioned only in dialogue or on props for which a grade cannot be conclusively determined but it could be assumed that most are VADM or lower.

    Therefore, we could say that 43% of known rank Admirals are VADM or that 81% of them are VADM or lower, but it would inaccurate to say that 90% are VADM.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Well, it sure seem like every admiral we see in the 24th century anyway is a Vice Admiral.
     
  6. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Commodore Commodore

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    Depending on the size of Starfleet there is plenty of room at the top. (Assuming a fleet that defends trillions has millions of officers)
     
  7. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Captain Captain

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    Superintendent Brand and the Bolian from Homefront/Paradise Lost were both Rear Admirals, as were Coburn & Sitak from Favor the Bold, Mark Jameson from Too Short a Season, Eric Pressman from The Pegasus, as were Savar & Quinn from Conspiracy, and Rollman from Past Prologue and Whispers.

    However, I would agree that the najority of the onscreen admirals in the 24th Century were Vice Admirals.
     
  8. SolarisOne

    SolarisOne Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I really wish they had changed the ranking system for TNG to reflect the modern practice of promoting captains to some equivalent of Rear Admiral, Lower Half (O-7), instead of directly to the single, two-star, Rear Admiral (O-8), as was the practice when TOS was created. Skipping the one-star rank just seems overly antiquated, and even served to momentarily throw me out of the novel where Riker was forcibly promoted. :vulcan: The reason the U.S. Navy went to the modern system (after experimenting with an ill-advised rank called "Commodore Admiral") was so that there would be no confusion that (O-7) was, in fact, a flag rank and not just some super-senior version of Captain.
     
  9. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Captain Captain

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    Actually, they did use Rear Admiral Lower Half in TNG s1 for Mark Jameson (Too Short a Season) and Gregory Quinn (Copming of Age, Conspiracy), and it's possible that several of the RADM mentioned in dialogue or props were LHs , but I agree that it would have been better if they showed both a bit more often (particularly on the occassions that we met several in one episode). I also wish they'd kept the two grades of Captain (Fleet Captain and [Starship] Captain as it doesn't make sense to me that Picard and Janeway should be the same rank (even if they have similar roles) given that Picard has been a Captain since 2333, when Janeway was 5 (at most, other sources suggest she wouldn't be born until as 2344, with intermediate options at 2332 and 2336).
     
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  10. SolarisOne

    SolarisOne Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    In Romance-language militaries, this tends to be built-in. Ranks that roughly correspond to our LCDR through CAPT all have "captain" in their title. For example, in Brasil the top three line ranks are, from senior to junior (translated): "Captain of Sea and War", "Frigate Captain", and "Corvette Captain".
     
  11. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Captain Captain

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    *Nods*

    That's the other reason why I like it. Makes Starfleet less Anglo-centric.

    Similarly, the Russians have Captain 1st Rank (sleeve insignia of Commodore, but ranks as Captain (naval)), Captain 2nd Rank (sleeve insignia is Captain, ranks with Commander), Captain 3rd Rank (sleeve insignia of Commander, ranks with Lieutenant Commander as a "Captain" or Major) and Captain-Lieutenant (Sleeve Insignia of Lieutenant Commander, ranks with Lieutenant Commanders as DivOs, Lieutenants (naval) and army or marine Captains). They also have three ranks of Lieutenant at OF-2 level (Snr LT, Lt & Jr Lt)
     
  12. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    It seems quite common for characters to be promoted rapidly through the flag ranks in Starfleet. Janeway was presumably promoted directly to Vice Admiral, either that or she was promoted three times in a two year timespan. In Trek XI, Pike was promoted directly to four-star Admiral, and in Beyond Kirk was eligible to be promoted to Vice Admiral, a promotion he applied for and nearly received at the end of the movie and ended up turning down. Hell, aside from the aforementioned admirals in TNG season 1, the only one-star officers we saw outside of TOS was Commodore Forrest in First Flight and Commodore Paris in Beyond.
     
  13. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason for this is that the behind-the-scenes people thought the one-pip admiral rank looks weird and doesn't read well on screen. With two, you can probably see the box around it better, so it doesn't look so much like they're just a fancy ensign.
     
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  14. Paris

    Paris Commodore Commodore

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    Wasn't Eric Pressman (TNG S7 - Pegasus) a 1-star Admiral?...or was it 2?
     
  15. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Two-star
    Indeed, I suspect the only reason Forrest was even made a Commodore in First Flight was just to differentiate him in the flashback scenes from present day where he's an Admiral (Vice Admiral, FYI) but still save money by keeping him in the flag officer's uniform that was likely tailored specifically for Vaughn Armstrong.
     
  16. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Commodore Commodore

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    Did Star Trek have military/navy (yes I said it) advisors? Probably explains why the uniform insignia was all over the place from TOS.
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I daresay most of TOS's creators were probably WWII veterans, since most American males of that generation would have been. Roddenberry certainly was. But insignias were often all over the place because the budget was tight and they had to reuse existing uniforms where they could.
     
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  18. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Not really, but as noted above many of the TOS writers and producers served in the military themselves. TNG and DS9 had Ron Moore, who was very familiar with the US Navy having even attended the Naval Academy. Indeed, a lot of the more military-accurate stuff in those shows is because of him.
     
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  19. TalonCard

    TalonCard Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Do you mean to say that the Original Series was a television show beholden to budgetary restrictions? My word, a revelation! Please explain further.

    TC
     
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  20. gazomg

    gazomg Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nechayev was a vice admiral in her first appearance and wore the rank of that,
    Yet when she was promoted to full admiral she wore the rank of vice admiral, as seen in a couple of episodes of TNG
    In 2371 she became a fleet admiral and when she appeared in the ds9 episode the search part 2 as fleet admiral she wore the pips of vice admiral....2 ranks below.

    In fact every appearance of hers was her wearing the vice admiral despite 2 promotions in between her appearances.
     
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