I thought the trial never ended...they are always watching.
Like Santa Claus.
Like Santa Claus.
Production Quality Of Picard
- Thread starter TRON JA307020
- Start date
Well, no. Humanity has not "evolved." Human culture has evolved. Humans, as individual creatures, are as able and liable to become murderous or bigoted as ever before, if they're in an environment in which their needs are not met. What has changed is that Human culture has changed to ensure that everyone's needs are met and that everyone is indoctrinated into a cultural value of empathy to discourage bigotry. But even in the 24th Century, Human culture isn't perfect -- there are plenty of times the Human characters of TNG act prejudiced against alien cultures with values that conflict with Human cultural values, with the narrative failing to recognize such prejudice or even endorsing such prejudice.
Or Slender Man.
Cool. Where were they when Yar was growing up?
Tell that to Admiral Leyton, or Tom Paris or Nick Locarno or everyone on Yar's homeworld or all the humans in section 31 or Admiral Dougherty, Admiral Ross, Captain Ransom and the Equinox crew etc.
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Exactly. Starfleet has an alarming number of 'rogue' elements, some of whom even reach high rank.
I'm not seeing how what you're saying contradicts my assertion. "Dr. Bashir, I Presume?" made it very clear that the Federation has banned genetic augmentation of its biological residents. If they're able to detect the "seeds of criminality" (which I take to mean they're able to detect variances in brain structures that can predispose someone to decreased levels of empathy, increased tendencies towards risk-taking or anti-social behavior), and they're able to use therapeutic measures to treat such persons before they engage in criminal behavior, that is still a cultural change, not a change in human evolution per se.
I haven't really touched upon this but I've started to notice a definite pattern in the "dystopia"-related criticism of Picard, namely that whenever some evidence is brought up that humanity as a whole has completely "evolved" some societal ill or bad behavior away, it's usually vague blanket statements made by one Jean-Luc Picard that are nonetheless regarded as authoritative and objective descriptions of the universe. Why are the subjective spoken words of one single person given more weight than the actual plots of episodes, sometimes even in the same series, that contradict those words? For some reason, it seems no matter how often a social or economic issue is shown in Berman Era episodes to still exist, it's often still considered wholly eliminated because Picard said so that one time back in TNG Season One.
I'm not saying we shouldn't take anything he says seriously. But we should accept the fact that Picard's views on humanity are inherently tinted by the environment of Paradise Earth he has grown up in and of course having the best of the best serving under him on the Enterprise (and probably the Stargazer earlier). It's no wonder he sees humanity through rose-tinted glasses with that kind of experience.
I'm not saying we shouldn't take anything he says seriously. But we should accept the fact that Picard's views on humanity are inherently tinted by the environment of Paradise Earth he has grown up in and of course having the best of the best serving under him on the Enterprise (and probably the Stargazer earlier). It's no wonder he sees humanity through rose-tinted glasses with that kind of experience.
The problem with believing that TNG's optimism was some rose tinted rich earth, just Picard being out of touch, is that there are aleady so many shows out there for that depressing thought. I'm all for analyzing the show but I dont really get taking something different and turning it into everything else.
If I want the bleak outlook I'll go watch the Expanse, BSG, Star Wars, pretty much any other space sci fi.
If I want the bleak outlook I'll go watch the Expanse, BSG, Star Wars, pretty much any other space sci fi.
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I just don't think it is that bleak. At least, not in comparison with what was already in TNG.
It can be optimistic and still flawed. Because TNG had those. Picard just seemed to ignore them in his speeches.
I just rewatched the first 3 episodes cause they were free yesterday.
Picard says that Starfleet gave in to intolerance. The supernova and the Mars attack killed millions, and many more suffered in the relocation. When did similar things of such scale happen in previous Trek?
Picard says that Starfleet gave in to intolerance. The supernova and the Mars attack killed millions, and many more suffered in the relocation. When did similar things of such scale happen in previous Trek?
It is a uniquely terrible decision of the Federation's. No one is contesting that. But that's not the same thing as being an outright dystopia, either; there's no indication the Federation has abandoned democracy, or that its police force can murder people with impunity, or that Romulan immigrants to the UFP fear to walk the streets, or that society is divided into weirdly specific castes, or that oppressed regions of the Federation have to send their children to die in a reality TV show, or that everyone's too hopped up on drugs to think straight, or that everyone's got to obey "the Party," or that people have all their emotions stolen from them, or any of the other five million variations on dystopias we've seen in film and literature.
The Federation is a society that has made a profoundly terrible choice out of fear, which probably cost many millions of innocent people their lives through inaction. That's a horrible fall from what they used to stand for. But that's not the same thing as dystopia, either.
as i tried to explain before, the point is that there are degrees in between and it's not purely black or white, and in that gray area, the shows don't occupy the same position. we are arguing that PIC is closer to dystopia than the others. closer doesn't mean 100%. just like the others were never 0%. why are grays on a linear scale such a difficult concept?
Because all the decisions I see in Picard I have seen in TNG.
When in TNG did Starfleet give in to intolerance and refused to help, and which TNG event killed millions, and made millions suffer? Which TNG characters were depressed about losing their kid and job, living in what they thought was a humiliating home where they'd do drugs all the time? Which TNG characters were violently vivisected?
When they decided to abandon the colonies in the DMZ. When Barclay was suffering from addiction to the holodeck and socially awkward and his crewmates gave him inappropriate nicknames. When Ro decided to leave Starfleet because of their abandonment of said colonies.
And Picard got vivisected...a couple of times. That whole First Contact situation with the Borg.
Sorry, the only differences I see are in the details not in the attitude behind them.
Never mind the failed colonies where rape gangs lived and Yar's mother was murdered. Never mind the order of genocide on the Borg. Never mind Picard's willingness to abandon a colony to death when they wouldn't agree to Picard's statements.
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