Production Quality Of Picard

[fireproof78]

By our standards, it’s a more believable view of the future. People still have vices, they still bicker, kill, enslave, discriminate on racial grounds (treatment of Romulans), there is still money and by implication, rich and poor.

Except, that isn't unique to Picard at all. TNG and DS9 both had those thing-Beverly purchases a bolt of fabric in "Encounter at Farpoint." O'Brien is extremely prejudiced against Cardassians, including having a slur to describe them. Worf is highly prejudiced against Romulans, to the point of letting one die. We hear about holoaddiction, caffeine addiction and other habits.

I may not like TNG but I think it had an interesting blend of humanity that is reflective in Picard. Picard just has the problems front and center rather than as a B plot.

 

[Leathco]

Setting has a lot to do with it IMO. Much of Star Trek is set on a space vehicle that most closely resembles a militaristic style. What if all you saw for years was taking place on a modern day flight carrier, than after years you finally saw a normal town on land? It would look a lot different.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They don’t smoke, drink, buy stuff, have material possessions

Except when they do.

 

[JamesRye]

Except when they do.

I’m sure there’s an exception to prove the rule. But I can’t think of a TNG character in the main cast who drinks to excess or smokes in the series. For sure, we see ‘flawed humans’ and Vash is one that springs to mind.

‘People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We've eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy’

JL.

Again, there are some exceptions. I think we see Data trying to decide on a replicated gift for Keiko, Picard himself seems to have some trinkets in his Ready Room such as his flute.

 

[fireproof78]

I’m sure there’s an exception to prove the rule. But I can’t think of a TNG character in the main cast who drinks to excess or smokes in the series. For sure, there are some exceptions to the rule and Vash is one that springs to mind.

‘People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We've eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy’

JL.

Does that mean those things no longer exist?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I’m sure there’s an exception to prove the rule. But I can’t think of a TNG character in the main cast who drinks to excess or smokes in the series. For sure, there are some exceptions to the rule and Vash is one that springs to mind.

‘People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We've eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy’

JL.

Words v deeds.
They literally have a bar on the ship. You can drink to excess there. (and then "shake it off".) You can also indulge you chocolate addiction there.

 

[XCV330]

I’m sure there’s an exception to prove the rule. But I can’t think of a TNG character in the main cast who drinks to excess or smokes in the series. For sure, we see ‘flawed humans’ and Vash is one that springs to mind.

‘People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We've eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy’

JL.

Enterprise D has a huge chunk of its primary hull set aside for a bar.

 

[Mytran]

‘People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We've eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy’

There's a whole episode of DS9 where Jake and Nog track down an original baseball card for Sisko, even though they could replicate one that would be indistinguishable.
And years before that in Elementary, Dear Data we saw that LaForge had spent countless hours constructing a scale replica of the HMS Victory as a gift for a fellow officer. Data queried his actions, wondering why Geordi didn't just use a fabrication replica.
Clearly things and possessions still mattered to them, albeit to a lesser degree than our present day.

 

[JamesRye]

Picard gets wasted once. After the hugely traumatic experience of being assimilated in ‘Family’.

 

[fireproof78]

We should not confuse need and desire.

 

[JamesRye]

Does that mean those things no longer exist?

Clearly not. It’s also clear that in general applies to Picard’s quote.

 

[JamesRye]

Except, that isn't unique to Picard at all. TNG and DS9 both had those thing-Beverly purchases a bolt of fabric in "Encounter at Farpoint." O'Brien is extremely prejudiced against Cardassians, including having a slur to describe them. Worf is highly prejudiced against Romulans, to the point of letting one die. We hear about holoaddiction, caffeine addiction and other habits.

I may not like TNG but I think it had an interesting blend of humanity that is reflective in Picard. Picard just has the problems front and center rather than as a B plot.

Excellent points very well made. The Beverly thing is just the exception to the rule. Worf isn’t an enlightened human and Picard is outraged by his behaviour. But the part about O’Brien being prejudiced and ‘Picard’ having the problems front and centre causes me to rethink things. We see plenty of prejudiced views against Ferengi too in TNG and later DS9 (though Sisko overcomes this).

I guess a riposte would be that there have been prejudiced and corrupt humans in TNG, but in PIC Starfleet and perhaps humanity as a whole is now prejudiced?

 

[fireproof78]

guess a riposte would be that there have been prejudiced and corrupt humans in TNG, but in PIC Starfleet and perhaps humanity as a whole is now prejudiced?

Is it though? Are we seeing all of humanity in those small examples?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I guess a riposte would be that there have been prejudiced and corrupt humans in TNG, but in PIC Starfleet and perhaps humanity as a whole is now prejudiced?

That's a pretty broad statement. Picard has taken Romulans into his home as friends and co-workers. Humans are working with Romulans on the Cube in relative harmony.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The Beverly thing is just the exception to the rule.

It wasn't played as an exception...it was played as a routine transaction.

 

[Sci]

I guess a riposte would be that there have been prejudiced and corrupt humans in TNG, but in PIC Starfleet and perhaps humanity as a whole is now prejudiced?

You know, one of the most basic problems with how the characters on TNG behave is that they often act as though the behavior of a small sample set of people from an alien race, is enough to judge that entire alien race.

And you're doing the same thing here, but you're doing it to Humans in PIC. I mean, we meet exactly one Human whose behavior is genuinely bigoted against Romulans (FNN reporter Richter Kalungay), and one Human whose actions represent institutional bigotry if not personal bigotry (Fleet Admiral Clancy). We do hear Jean-Luc talk about pervasive prejudice against androids in "Remembrance," but at no point does he claim that sort of prejudice is held by Humanity as a whole.

It is absolutely fair to say that PIC establishes widespread anti-Romulan and anti-Android bigotry. What is not fair is claiming that Humanity as a whole is now prejudiced. You cannot ascribe something like that to billions and billions of people.

And let us not pretend that Humanity in TNG is without prejudice. "The Drumhead" establishes that the Federation Starfleet prohibits people from becoming NCOs or commissioned officers if they have any Romulan ancestry, and Admiral Norah Satie's little witch hunt makes it clear that there's plenty of anti-Romulan bigotry alive and well in Federation society.

 

[JamesRye]

It wasn't played as an exception...it was played as a routine transaction.

In one episode (the pilot). The same one where Deanna can talk to Riker telepathically. It's made abundantly clear that officers don't get paid and that humanity as a whole has evolved beyond the need for material possessions.

The economics of the 24th century are never properly addressed. One can only assume she replicated some money. But then how did officers pay Quark on DS9?

Jake said "I'm Human, I have no money" in the baseball card episode.That means that even the Federation Humans on DS9 don't have any kind of foreign money.

 

[Mytran]

Jake said "I'm Human, I have no money" in the baseball card episode.That means that even the Federation Humans on DS9 don't have any kind of foreign money.

No it means that Jake doesn't have any form of currency. Other human Starfleet officers are frequently shown enjoying drinks in Quark's bar or using the gambling facilities. A case in point is Riker who references a debt that Quark owes him in Firstborn

RIKER: Quark, I see you remember me.
QUARK: How could I forget the only man ever to win triple down dabo at one of my tables?
RIKER: And how could I forget that you didn't have enough latinum to cover my winnings?​

In order to gamble, Riker would first have had to possess currency to lay an opening bet.

 

[The Old Mixer]

It's made abundantly clear that officers don't get paid and that humanity as a whole has evolved beyond the need for material possessions.

Like Worf's weapons collection and statue; Riker's trombone; Picard's saddle, archaeological relics, Shakespeare volume, goldfish...

One can only assume she replicated some money.

She told the vendor to charge it to her account...very matter-of-factly, like having things charged to her account was as routine to her as making a purchase is to us.

Jake said "I'm Human, I have no money" in the baseball card episode.

In one episode.

 

[TRON JA307020]

No it means that Jake doesn't have any form of currency. Other human Starfleet officers are frequently shown enjoying drinks in Quark's bar or using the gambling facilities. A case in point is Riker who references a debt that Quark owes him in Firstborn

RIKER: Quark, I see you remember me.
QUARK: How could I forget the only man ever to win triple down dabo at one of my tables?
RIKER: And how could I forget that you didn't have enough latinum to cover my winnings?​

In order to gamble, Riker would first have had to possess currency to lay an opening bet.

Quark gave complimentary chips to play Dabo.