Production Order Group Viewing 2018

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Archivist13, May 8, 2018.

  1. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    First pizza and now jelly!!! This planet has got it all! :D
    JB
     
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  2. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

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    Like Chad Everett in AIRPLANE 2.:borg:
     
  3. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Annnnyway, on topic, I never gave much thought to what Losira meant about matching the cell structure, other thinking it was a way of powering the hologram defense system while destroying the intruders. She wasn't duplicating them, but adapting them as energy.

    D'Amato was one of the very few expendables to die who had any real personality. We wasn't just a dude in a shirt, he was really likeable. Props to the 3rd season team to taking what was a Star Trek cliche bby then and making it work well. You could understand why Kirk was so bummed - other than he hated losing crewmen.
     
  4. Henoch

    Henoch Commodore Premium Member

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    MCCOY: Sulu's picked up an organism that's almost a virus, like a a plant parasite. It's the nearest biological form of life I can find.
    Maybe Lorisa blasts a body's cells to make it easier for the plant parasite to ingest you; you're now organic compost fertilizer. :barf: Technically, you do join and live on and on and on with Lorisa (i.e. The Outpost). :techman:
     
  5. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think you mean Losira, Henny! :techman:
    JB
     
  6. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I assumed the plant parasite was what the bug that killed them had evolved into.
     
  7. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

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    He had more lines, but made a limited impression on me.If I voted for doomed personalities, I think Gaetano in GALILEO SEVEN might fit the bill.
     
  8. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Gaetano was unlikable, though. Loud and generally belligerent. Sure he made an impression, but I didn’t care when he died. D’Amato was a regular dude who liked his job and was pleasantly upbeat. He had a bit of personality where the average “red shirt” (no matter the actual color) was pretty much just there.

    But yeah, Gaetano was more memorable. He had meatier dialog.
     
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  9. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Since so many changes were made the Engine Room set over the course of the series, I think that choosing to see these as in-universe upgrades is not unreasonable and there are certainly sufficient stardate gaps where such refits could have happened. The big one (the change of the Engine Room design from S1 to S2) could have taken place any time from after Space Seed to just before The Changeling, but I like to think that the refit was why Kirk & co were on a shuttlecraft in Metamorphosis, leaving Scotty in charge of the ship during the upgrade.

    However, I have trouble accepting that a major change like removing the M/AM reactors from the nacelles wouldn't also entail fairly major changes to the exterior of the nacelles - this is a major alteration to the entire power chain after all.
    IMO, dialogue references to reactors (plural) might be better explained by there being a group of M/AM reactors in the secondary hull which work together as a single, unified system (explaining the singular usage)
     
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  10. Henoch

    Henoch Commodore Premium Member

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    In both Operation: Annihilate! (Stardate 3287.2) and Amok Time (Stardate 3372.7), the Enterprise casually hits Warp 8, while earlier in Arena (Stardate 3045.6), the old girl was struggling to hit Warp 7. This may be evidence that the upgrade to the M/AM reactor was completed before Operation: Annihilate! as you propose. I like your idea that Kirk took the shuttlecraft because Enterprise was in spacedock getting upgraded, and was to rendezvous with the shuttle.

    Only problem is the time gap; end of Errand of Mercy (Stardate 3201.7) only gives ~18 stardates to do the deed, which is only 6.5 days. I propose that the ~83 stardate gap (~one month) after Operation: Annihilate! is better.

    One other option, it was a work in progress (we have a lot of those on this site ;)) continuously from the end of Errand of Mercy through Amok Time, giving a total of 171 stardates or about two months to finish the work. During that time the Enterprise was still operational with only one or two periods where she was out of service (the beginning of Meta for example). YMMV :)
     
  11. Henoch

    Henoch Commodore Premium Member

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    The last reference to multiple M/AM reactors was in S2 E22 By Any Other Name (Stardate 4657.4):
    Hinting of multiple M/AM reactors with at least one each in each nacelle. Maybe the Season 3 upgrade with the Dilithium Crystal Converter Assembly added to the floor gizmo may be a technological improvement to generate even more power out the M/A reactor in the engineering hull, possibly doing away with the need for the two extra M/AM reactors in the nacelles. Even if the reactors are removed from the nacelles (and replaced with more warp hardware for Warp 9 speeds, i.e. TNG term "coils"), I don't see why you would expect to see a modification to the external surfaces of the engine cowling? :shrug:
     
  12. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Possibly, but the term "propelled" is not really the best choice of words since it implies thrust. In any case, the reactors don't provide the propulsion for the vessel but merely the energy for the warp coils (to again borrow from TNG parlance)

    I would find it surprising if a major piece of equipment (that was designed and built into the structure of the nacelle) was removed that there wouldn't have to be additional modifications to compensate for the loss.

    For example, look at the way the pylon is attached to the nacelle: 27% of its length is forward of the strut's centre point, which presumably balances out the 73% facing aft. What would be so big and heavy? The fuel tanks and shielding for a M/AM reactor might fit the bill, with the more lightweight warp coils stored in the remaining length (this is even suggested visually, with the lights on the red domes suggesting a high energy reaction). Remove that heavy front part and you'd better replace it with something equally massive, otherwise the nacelle will just tilt down aftwards and shear off the pylon!

    By comparison, the nacelles of the refit Enterprise are lot more centrally balanced on the pylon, suggesting a more even distribution of warp-drive machinery

    In fact, it might be easier (in the TOS example) to just to leave the dead equipment in place. But then again, why not keep it running as a supplement to the new system?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
  13. Henoch

    Henoch Commodore Premium Member

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    I started this discussion with "playing devil's advocate"; I'm actually still a proponent of the three M/AM reactors, with a M/AM reactor is each nacelle. Based on the engine room changes, I can buy that the central hull, dilithium crystal M/AM reactor was improved to generate more power and more antimatter resulting in more power to all ship systems plus more antimatter fuel for bigger burns in the warp engines giving more warp speed.
     
  14. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ah yes, you did say that! :whistle:
    Well, seeing as this is not really the thread for technical talk, shall we proceed to more sensible matters instead?
    What episode is up next...

    Oh.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

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    Tacky. Only in the third year.
     
  16. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    LET THAT BE YOUR LAST BATTLEFIELD

    That writer hack Lee Cronin is back again, taking Gene Coon’s examination of slavery in Bread And Circuses and doubling down into racism too.

    This week is another bottle show, but the ship is on a rescue mission which adds variety. I’m still not sure what sort of “bacterial invasion” could wipe out a whole planet though; the future is a really dangerous place to live!
    Okay, so blatant allegory is blatant. However, it's interesting that the episode doesn’t come down on the side of either Lokai or Bele; both are shown to be intolerant extremists and quite “disgusting” (to quote Mr Scott).
    Kirk tries to reach out to Bele as a fellow “officer” but he is no more civilised than his prey.
    In the end all they have left is their hatred for one another…
    Really, this episode is much better than the cheesy execution of its concept has a right to be.
    Good, solid Trek.

    OTHER THOUGHTS:
    • Interesting discussion on McCoy’s medical treatment of aliens, and how he is able to safely treat those he hasn't encountered before.
    • Comissioner Bele’s ship is invisible? That’s quite a saving to the FX budget! However, it is still detectable on all ship’s sensors, so what exactly is the point? Was it some sort of executive craft, sheathed in the finest invisible paint? :shrug:
    • Kirk refers back to the Romulan cloaking device – Season 3 is just bonkers for continuity!
    • Crewmen in the corridors! Not many, but enough to suggest they still exist.
    • Rapid zoom in on the red alert lights, THREE TIMES! A not so subtle homage to the Batman TV series, perhaps?
    • The recreation room doors seem to be broken; they are shown conveniently ajar so that Spock can overhear Lokai’s speech and don’t open when Spock stands right next to them.
    • On top of the obvious racism theme, this episode gets a shot in against evolutionary deniers too! Is Bele a secret flat earther as well, do you suppose? :devil:
    • Scott is only mildly concerned that the ship is flying at Warp 10 - I think our speculation last week regarding an engineering upgrade was well founded! :techman:

    AMAZING ALIENS
    Bele has been chasing Lokai for FIFTY THOUSAND YEARS? And they have telekinesis powerful enough to take over the Enterprise AND generate their own personal shields?
    These guys are GODS!
    Thankfully their powers are also clearly defined within set limits so that vaguery is avoided, but these are two incredibly powerful beings. Are all the inhabitants of Cheron like this?
    Also, if Bele has a lifespan in excess of 50,000 years, does that mean when he tells Lokai that his people were freed “thousands of years ago” it's a relatively recent development?

    NEW TECH
    The whole self destruct sequence is brilliantly written, acted and directed. It’s blatant filler, but of the best kind.
    The self destruct mechanism must be a relatively new feature, perhaps installed during the recent engineering upgrade we discussed last week? There are just too many instances where it would have been useful in the past!

    NEW SETS
    Some sort of officers’ ward room, where Kirk and Spock share drinks with Comissioner Bele with waited on service, well apart from the other crew. It’s a nice visual reminder of the differing social statuses that exist in both Cheron and Starfleet.
     
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  17. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The zoom in to the alert lights always gets compared to Batman, but the Batman series never did that. Laugh-In, however, did. Batman did the dutch angles and other over the top-ness.
     
  18. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Perhaps the red alert zoom viewers were reminded of the inter-title sequence from Batman? That was pretty zoomy!
     
  19. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Batman did the “spin” sorta thing, if that’s what you mean. But zooming in and out like that wasn’t a Batman thing. Laugh In and maybe The Monkees did it.

    I’m just thinking the director thought it was a “cool and hip” stylistic choice.
     
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  20. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Possibly; I don't recall any similar "hip" directing choices in The Paradise Syndrome but Wink of an Eye had those dutch angles to represent hyper-time (a very Batman thing, as you have observed).

    I shall watch out for more of his stylings in The Mark of Gideon and The Cloud Minders :techman: