Production Order Group Viewing 2018

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Archivist13, May 8, 2018.

  1. Maurice

    Maurice Maurice, the ATARI CX5200 Premium Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    On Batman they would spin the screen and zoom the red bat in and out.
  2. ssosmcin

    ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Sep 2, 2002
    Yeah that was about the extent of it. I can’t imagine this was a reference to that. Maybe if they spun the picture zoomed in and out on the Enterprise insignia....
  3. Henoch

    Henoch Commodore Premium Member

    Dec 27, 2018
    Back on the Shelf
    Brillent synopsis of the episode, @Mytran! :bolian:

    The self destruct bluff was used against the Romulans in The Deadly Years in the previous season. Maybe Starfleet thought it would be a good tool to have, after all. :vulcan:

    I thought Bele's ship was "naturally" invisible:
  4. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Aug 5, 2009
    North Wales
    Kirk called it a "destruct order" in that episode but he did imply that was some sort of automated procedure using the "Corbomite Device".
    A far less automated process of self destruct was discussed in By Any Other Name where Scotty had to flood the engines with a special energy. The auto destruct code thingy would have been really handy then!

    Yeah I mockingly called it "invisible paint" but my point still stands - if the ship still gets picked up on sensors then it's little more than a vanity feature.
  5. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

    Feb 23, 2013
    Marsden is very sad.
    Thankfully their powers are also clearly defined within set limits so that vaguery is avoided, but these are two incredibly powerful beings. Are all the inhabitants of Cheron like this?

    Not anymore.

    It depends on how good the sensors are of the opposing ship. I don't think everyone's sensors are created equal and visual sighting might help some that their sensors, or science officers for that matter, aren't as capable.
    Henoch likes this.
  6. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Aug 5, 2009
    North Wales
    Too soon dude, too soon!

    Fair point. It definitely wasn't as good as even the first cloak we met in BOT though, since that only showed up on the motion sensor
  7. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 24, 2009
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    Although the allegory was paper thin, as far as the USA goes, they were right to hammer home the blatant stupidity of segregation.

    As as the story goes, I wanted so much more. The duration of their chase was overblown; divide it by 200 and you'd still have a ridiculously long time. I think there was a missed opportunity to look more at the arguments of both sides., and more story generally. The running scenes are dull and ineffective, although I can see how budgetary constraints would prevent showing us the actual scorched home world. Maybe a more positive message could have come from the handful of survivors who had found peace.

    The alien super powers were just a bit too convenient, albeit more limited and interesting than the standard omnipotent aliens I suppose.
  8. Poltargyst

    Poltargyst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jun 12, 2014
    Let That Be Your Last Battlefield

    By my count, including this episode, we have only 10 episodes left! Cue Europe, it's...The Final Countdown!

    (And how fitting is The Final Countdown for this episode?)

    The TOS-R version has a cool visual of the shuttle coming in to land in the shuttle bay.

    So the answer to the question of how they evolved to be half black half white is that there was a mutation at some point?

    Spock: "Yet you are pumping him full of your noxious potions as if he were a human. " Ooh, this time Spock starts the snark with McCoy rather than the other way around.

    Kirk:"That's in the southernmost part of the galaxy, in an uncharted quarter." Huh. So apparently by convention they've decided that one side of the galaxy is the top and one the bottom and they refer to them as north and south? Is he talking about a quarter of the southern side or a quadrant of the whole galaxy? Any relation to the alpha, beta, gamma, delta designation of quadrants we hear about in later Trek series?

    Wow, look, there are people in the corridors as if this was a busy crew of 430 people. How reminiscent of Season 1.

    Nooo, it's the Riddler! Don't trust him! Kirk needs to pick up the red phone and call Adam West.

    The dynamic between Lokai and Bele reminds me of G'Kar and Londo and will be expanded upon more in DS9 with the dynamic between the Bajorans and Cardassians.

    What is it with this in and out with the camera during a red alert? Holy psychedelic 60's, Batman.

    Good acting by Gorshin and Antonio. They really sell two guys who are obsessed and enraged.

    Bele:"For fifty thousand of your terrestrial years, I have been pursuing Lokai through the galaxy." Wow, you suck.

    Ah, the classic self destruct sequence. One of the truly iconic scenes in all of TOS repeated in STIII. A very tense, edge of your seat scene where Kirk shows his iron will will bend to no one. Meanwhile, everyone else looks on and thinks "this isn't what I was expecting to happen today."

    Okay, it's a good scene, but I disagree with Kirk here. I hate to pull the "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one" card, but Kirk has no business risking the lives of a billion Ariannusians, not to mention those of his crew, by potentially destroying his ship over Lokai. If Bele won't give up control, then Kirk needs to get to Cheron as soon as possible, get the two nutjobs off the ship, and go save Ariannus. We know that's where they end up anyway, but we didn't know that at the time. And why didn't Bele just walk over and burn out the computer while they were setting up the self destruct sequence?

    Another TOS episode with a social message. This one hits us over the head with a 2 x 4, a sledgehammer, and a Mack truck: Hey! Racism is stupid and bad!

    The first time I saw this, like Kirk and Spock, I didn't register the difference between Lokai and Bele, and when Bele gives his explanation of "I'm black on the right side, he's white on the right side", like Kirk and Spock, I was like "what a stupid reason to hate each other." DUH! That's the point! It's stupid to hate over each others' skin color! Oooooooooh, I get it!

    This isn't really one of my favorite episodes. It doesn't help that we have to see them run around the ship for twenty minutes. Okay, it wasn't twenty, it was three. Long enough.

    Kirk: "Give up your hate."

    Luke: "Search your feelings, Father, you can't do this. I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate."

    Turn from the Dark Side, Bele and Lokai! But they don't. They turn to the Dark Side and become Sith. Or something.

    Lokai goes into the turbolift. Bele follows IMMEDIATELY, and there's already a new turbolift. How fast do those things go?

    So what have we learned? It's stupid to hate someone for the color of their skin, and if you don't knock it off it will destroy you and your whole world. And we're still learning this lesson unfortunately.

    Like I said, not a real favorite of mine, but the dynamics between Bele and Lokai and the crew were well-acted. I wonder if it would have been more of a statement to have a black actor play one of them. Have a black actor play Bele and watch 1960's-era heads explode.

    Alien Watch! Just a couple of wild and crazy guys!

    Season 1
    That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
    Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
    Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
    Ron Howard's brother
    That dog from Enemy Within
    Salt monster
    That hand plant...Gertrude
    Spock (duh)
    Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
    Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
    Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
    Shore Leave Caretaker guy
    Trelaine and his folks*
    The Lazerii
    The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
    The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
    The Triffids of Omicron Ceti III (TSoP)
    The refreshingly non-human-looking Horta
    Klingons! (Remarkably human looking).
    (The Guardian of Forever)
    Flying pancakes

    Season 2
    Sylvia and Korob
    The Companion
    The remarkably human looking (though tall) Cappellans.
    Native Pollux IV-ians (Apollo and his gang)
    Full-blooded Vulcans
    The remarkably human looking citizens of Argelius II (WitF)
    The People of Vaal (Gamma Triangulians)
    Crew of the ISS Enterprise
    The remarkably human-looking** (except for maybe a dot on their forehead) Halkans
    Tribbles (not at all human looking)
    The remarkably human-looking citizens of...892-VI. Is that what they call this planet? (The Roman one.)
    Tall guys, short guys, Andorians, Tellurites, purple lady, Orion made up like an Andorian. (JtB)
    The remarkably human-looking people of Neural. (APLW)
    The awesome Mugato!
    Shahna, Lars, Tamoon, Kloog, Thrallmaster Galt, and the Providers
    The Cloud from the Tycho system.
    The remarkably human-looking Iotians. (Gangsters)
    Kelvans! Who really look like big, cool squids but choose to look remarkably human.
    Sargon and the gang of not-quite-omnipotent aliens.
    Remarkably human looking Zeons of Zeon and Ekosians of Ekos. (PoF)
    The remarkably human looking Yangs and Coms of Omega IV.
    Isis! Who looks remarkably like a cat until she wants to look remarkably human.

    Season 3
    The decidedly non-human looking Melkotians.
    The remarkably human-looking Elasians and not so human looking Troyians.
    Lawyer in a muumuu. Remarkably human-looking but maybe that was on purpose.
    The remarkably human-looking Morgs and Eymorgs of Sigma Draconis.
    Kollos the Medusan
    Gem the Empath (remarkably human looking)
    Vians (the OTHER bumpy-headed aliens)
    The remarkably human-looking Fabrini of Yo Mama.
    The malicious swirly ball of hate (DotD)
    The remarkably human-looking Platonians who are douchebags except for Alexander
    The fast, but still remarkably human looking Scalosians.
    The remarkably human-looking image of Losira.
    The Cheron boys, Bele and Lokai

    *Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
    **By request
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
    Henoch likes this.
  9. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

    Oct 28, 2011
    Rojan and company would freeze whoever tried it long before they'd finish. Though it'd be fun to see Shatner unable to talk for the third time in one episode.:borg:
  10. Maurice

    Maurice Maurice, the ATARI CX5200 Premium Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    Happens even here. Behold.

    There is a Galactic North in Earth-based astronomy. It's not hard to imagine that someone would pick a direction from the plane as north/up and south/down just so you could do azimuth and elevation. That aside, making the "race problem" from the "south" is very on-the-nose.
  11. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Sep 7, 2014
    Well space doesn't actually stop beneath the Enterprise when it's travelling in the outer reaches!
  12. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

    Apr 19, 2013
    Last place in Australia to get the NBN
    If they ever remake this episode in one of the new Treks I want this cat belonging to one of the protagonists.
    This episodes has two of the most remembered scenes in Trek for me- the confrontation of the bridge where Kirk and even Spock are clueless to the 'important' differences between Bele and Lokai and the self-destruct scene.
    I regard this as a very good episode even it scores a bit high on the allegory scale. The conflict between Bele and Lokai is good. The whole episode is very exciting, our heroes are united for once.
    The main problem I have is that Kirk is being a bit Herbert in this episode. The proper paperwork wasn't filled out etc. I know that was a ploy to keep the two men apart but to me the guest stars outshine the main cast.because Kirk is less effective a commander allowing Bele to eventually have control of the ship.
    I absolutely loved the self-destruct sequence, the sweat on the brow, the dramatic looks as if Scott were going to back out at any moment but still kept the faith. However I kept thinking why would Kirk destroy the ship over this? I know its bad and if it were Khan or Charlie or Gary Mitchell you would understand you couldn't have a ship with the power of the Enterprise in the hands of a maniac but Bele was likely to return power of the Kirk as soon as he had Lokai at the planet. Then a couple of scenes later the effective of this scene was again diminished when Bele disabled the self-destruct.
    Whereas people complain the left-right scene on the bridge was too obvious I think they should have had some background/future scene to explain why the self-destruct was necessary or that Kirk was relieved at his bluff working.
    Also 50000 years is dramatic but too long. Its dramatic and spacey futuristic but surely Bele would have contacted his people in that time. Was he really going around solo for 50000 years looking for his fugitive ? No contact with his planet, no-one to talk to, no intimate contact with anyone. ? Maybe Kirk or Spock should have wondered why the people from Cheron had not already made contact with the Federation when they first met up with Bele.

  13. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Sep 7, 2014
    The special energy was just positive energy which when flooding the engines would destroy the Enterprise when it came into contact with the barrier which was composed of negative energy! I did science, me! :techman:
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  14. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

    Jan 7, 2013
    New York State
    I'll bet that cat is a chimera: one individual formed from two separate fertilized eggs that fused together.

    "I am black on the right side. Bad cats are tan on the right side. All bad cats are tan on the right side." :)
    Poltargyst likes this.
  15. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Aug 5, 2009
    North Wales

    This week we have another “kidnapped captain” type plot yet again set in a mental institution, complete with all the trappings we saw in Dagger Of The Mind such as a planetary forcefield and a Neural Neutraliser chair. There’s extensive reuse of wall flats and furniture from the Enterprise standing sets but since this is a Federation station that at leave makes a bit of sense in visual continuity terms.

    The plot is…serviceable. Watching actors be “crazy” soon palls for me but fortunately those shenanigans don’t go on for anywhere near the same length of time as in Plato’s Stepchildren or I, Mudd.
    Garth is an interesting antagonist and the actor plays the “crazy” in a very understated manner for the most part. He also comes up with some clever plans to fool Kirk – the one with Spock was especially well done and nearly worked; his impersonation of the First Officer was perfect!

    Kirk and Spock seem to mostly be biding their time waiting for the inevitable opportunity to turn the tables on Garth - I never got any great sense that they were in mortal danger though.

    While Gene Coon seems to have come up with concept of the multi-specied Federation back in Season One, it’s expanded on a lot in this episode. Kirk says he is primarily an explorer NOW – perhaps indicating that Starfleet was once more militaristic in recent memory. I wonder what that business at Axanar was all about? They allude to it having been the birth of the Federation in its current form as we know it today.

    At last! A really sensible security countermeasure. Couldn’t they have installed a couple of subcutaneous transponders as well, though?
    The motive of breaking of the code also drives the plot in a believable fashion.

    • Kirk claims that mental illness can now be cured by a certain medicine. Given how vast a range of conditions the term “mental illness” covers this does not seem possible. What’s next, oxygen pills so we can breath in space? :rommie:
    • Good to see that the main races we’ve encountered before are well represented in the “galaxy’s incorrigible criminally insane” - Orion, Andorian, Telarite and a collection of humans in different hats too.
    • After the titles, we find that Spock was stunned off screen. Was this done to save money on the FX budget?
    • Izar seems to be another planet – Garth refers to Kirk and Cory as stiff necked “earth people”. Of course in TOS, having human-like aliens is hardly an oddity.
    • Garth is said to use “cellular metamorphosis” to do his shape shifting trick, yet his clothes change also. Does that mean he’s walking around naked? Good enough for Mystique, I suppose…
    • Great reuse of the music from WNMHG and The Cage – very eerie and adds atmosphere to those scenes
    • Shatner once again gets to overact (as Garth) but he also gets some more subtle scenes to deliver, which the actor performs well. Shatner really can play it both ways.
    • Garth has created the “most powerful explosive in history” – is it more powerful than antimatter?
    • Great to see the Tholian Web spacesuits again
    • Martia lasts a quite a long time in the “poisonous” atmosphere of Elba II. Perhaps it is only “mostly” poisonous?
    • McCoy and Scott are left on the Bridge in this episode – and while there’s debate and discussion there’s no bickering or arguing! So, is Spock just naturally argumentative or do the crew just not respect his authority? So much for them all being “brothers” in the Federation!
    • Spock executes a brilliant ruse to escape from jail. However, he seems genuinely stumped when it comes to identifying the fake Kirk. There’s any number of questions he could have asked (like who was on duty in the transporter room) to just stunning them both and sorting the mess out later! Kirk rightly uses this poor decision making on Spock’s part as the “gag” to round out the episode.
    This last observation can probably attributed to the cutting of Season Three budgets. However:
    Governor Cory makes brief reference to his “medical staff” and a guard but we never see them, even when Garth is defeated. Also, he tells Kirk it is a long time since he had company.
    Is Corey alone in the asylum? Is he just another of the inmates, running through a compulsive narrative?
    Cue spooky music…
    :eek: :eek: :eek:
  16. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

    Oct 28, 2011
    McCoy disrespects Sulu's authority when he gives him an order in Act Four. That's Scotty's job. And all Sulu says is ''Yes, sir.'' McCoy deserved a good Sulu-slap there, or a mild reprimand from Scott, or something. (Yeah, I know, Kelley's the highest billed actor presently on the bridge, but that's no excuse.)
  17. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Aug 5, 2009
    North Wales
    I searched but couldn't McCoy giving Sulu any orders. Did you mean this exchange?

    SCOTT: Well, there's one last thing we might try. Perhaps the ship's phasers can cut through a section of the force field at its weakest point. Where did you say that was located, Mister Sulu?
    SULU: On the far side of the planet, Mister Scott.
    MCCOY: Will it leave a margin of safety for the people below?
    SULU: Yes, sir.

    SCOTT: Prepare to change orbital path, Mister Sulu.​

    I'd call that more of a question than an order.

    I totally missed Uhura manning the scanning station the first time round though, so I do appreciate you making me rewatch that scene.
    Another feather in her cap! :techman:
  18. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

    Oct 28, 2011
    The episode's transcripts back you up. You're correct. It's a question. But Kelley says it like an order, or at least ends in fast and rough fashion. It always sounded like ''Well, leave--'' instead of ''Will it.'' to me. You can almost hear the exclamation point.
    So McCoy's not to blame. Kelley, maybe. I'm sorry, Bones.
  19. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Aug 5, 2009
    North Wales
    You're not alone in thinking that; Kelley did indeed use some very forceful delivery there which also made me wonder if that was the scene you were thinking of
  20. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 1, 2016
    "We are bringing a revolutionary new medicine to them, a medicine with which the Federation hopes to eliminate mental illness for all time."

    Hopes don't always pan out.

    Possibly another explanation - Garth was raised on a colony world where Humans tend to see things differently there than Earth-born/raised Humans do.