You didn't miss anything, it was presumed dust only!
Production Order Group Viewing 2018
- Thread starter Archivist13
- Start date
You didn't miss anything, it was presumed dust only!
Class M dust.
That must have been what Spock was referring to!
Man-like (humanoid-shaped bodies) robots, as opposed to a Roomba, or R2-D2.
Wouldn't that be a "humanoid robot" then?
I would also be remiss if I didn't quote Mr Data on this matter:
Great avatar by the way.
Patterns of Force
Zeon...Zion...I get it. Is there a clever hidden meaning behind the name Ekosian?
How would a historian be able to teach them how to make thermonuclear warhead? Or it's just the fact that he made their society so much more efficient?
Wonder why they don't do the subcutaneous transponder more often. Oh. Because we needed the crystals in this episode. Reminds me of a Bond movie where Bond goes to see Q to get outfitted before a mission, and Q just so happens to give him the very gadgets he ends up needing.
Shatner and Nimoy are/were Jewish. Wonder if they had any feelings about making this episode.
So we have an episode where a single book gets a whole planet to act like gangsters, and now one man gets a whole planet to act like Nazis. In just a few years no less. I'm dubious that a whole planet is just going to drop everything and do just what one man wants them to do.
Spock: "You should make a very convincing Nazi." Kirk's look. Ha ha.
Spock takes off his helmet. I wonder if the Chinese rice picker accident story would work here.
I feel like they or at least Kirk should be in worse shape after that whipping. After the jail cell scene, they never mention it or show they're hurt again. Without medical attention!
As they make their Bond-like escape from the jail cell. This either gives me a Bond vibe or a Mission Impossible vibe.
Isak: "If we adopt the ways of the Nazis, we're as bad as the Nazis." Was this a point that needed to be made in the 60's?
The Zeons are pretty blase about Spock's ears, never mentioning them at all.
"For the last few years the real power has been...Skippy!"
It's really an interesting premise for this episode. A historian from the 23rd Century studies the Trump administration, is impressed by their efficiency (for some reason), and convinces this planet to act like them. Sorry, sorry, couldn't help myself.
Spock: "Captain, the speech follows no logical pattern." Kirk: "Random sentences strung together." Wow, it IS a Trump speech! Sorry, sorry, couldn't help myself.
"If we adopt the ways of the Nazis, we're as bad as the Nazis." Indeed.
Well, I've mentioned these 20th-Century-ish episodes not being my favorite, but I enjoyed watching this again. I get that they were on tight budget, and anything they could do to save money was a bonus. So they had some Nazi uniforms on set and saved money by doing a Nazi story. Okay, I'm good with that.
Alien Watch! TWO races that look...you know.
Season 1
Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
The Triffids of Omicron Ceti III (TSoP)
The refreshingly non-human-looking Horta
Organians*
Klingons! (Remarkably human looking).
(The Guardian of Forever)
Flying pancakes
Season 2
Sylvia and Korob
The Companion
The remarkably human looking (though tall) Cappellans.
Native Pollux IV-ians (Apollo and his gang)
Full-blooded Vulcans
The remarkably human looking citizens of Argelius II (WitF)
Redjac
The People of Vaal (Gamma Triangulians)
Crew of the ISS Enterprise
The remarkably human-looking** (except for maybe a dot on their forehead) Halkans
Tribbles (not at all human looking)
The remarkably human-looking citizens of...892-VI. Is that what they call this planet? (The Roman one.)
Tall guys, short guys, Andorians, Tellurites, purple lady, Orion made up like an Andorian. (JtB)
The remarkably human-looking people of Neural. (APLW)
The awesome Mugato!
Shahna, Lars, Tamoon, Kloog, Thrallmaster Galt, and the Providers
The Cloud from the Tycho system.
The BIG FREAKIN' AMEBA!!!!!
The remarkably human-looking Iotians. (Gangsters)
Kelvans! Who really look like big, cool squids but choose to look remarkably human.
Sargon and the gang of not-quite-omnipotent aliens.
Remarkably human looking Zeons of Zeon and Ekosians of Ekos. (PoF)
*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
**By request
Zeon...Zion...I get it. Is there a clever hidden meaning behind the name Ekosian?
How would a historian be able to teach them how to make thermonuclear warhead? Or it's just the fact that he made their society so much more efficient?
Wonder why they don't do the subcutaneous transponder more often. Oh. Because we needed the crystals in this episode. Reminds me of a Bond movie where Bond goes to see Q to get outfitted before a mission, and Q just so happens to give him the very gadgets he ends up needing.
Shatner and Nimoy are/were Jewish. Wonder if they had any feelings about making this episode.
So we have an episode where a single book gets a whole planet to act like gangsters, and now one man gets a whole planet to act like Nazis. In just a few years no less. I'm dubious that a whole planet is just going to drop everything and do just what one man wants them to do.
Spock: "You should make a very convincing Nazi." Kirk's look. Ha ha.
Spock takes off his helmet. I wonder if the Chinese rice picker accident story would work here.
I feel like they or at least Kirk should be in worse shape after that whipping. After the jail cell scene, they never mention it or show they're hurt again. Without medical attention!
As they make their Bond-like escape from the jail cell. This either gives me a Bond vibe or a Mission Impossible vibe.
Isak: "If we adopt the ways of the Nazis, we're as bad as the Nazis." Was this a point that needed to be made in the 60's?
The Zeons are pretty blase about Spock's ears, never mentioning them at all.
"For the last few years the real power has been...Skippy!"
It's really an interesting premise for this episode. A historian from the 23rd Century studies the Trump administration, is impressed by their efficiency (for some reason), and convinces this planet to act like them. Sorry, sorry, couldn't help myself.
Spock: "Captain, the speech follows no logical pattern." Kirk: "Random sentences strung together." Wow, it IS a Trump speech! Sorry, sorry, couldn't help myself.
"If we adopt the ways of the Nazis, we're as bad as the Nazis." Indeed.
Well, I've mentioned these 20th-Century-ish episodes not being my favorite, but I enjoyed watching this again. I get that they were on tight budget, and anything they could do to save money was a bonus. So they had some Nazi uniforms on set and saved money by doing a Nazi story. Okay, I'm good with that.
Alien Watch! TWO races that look...you know.
Season 1
Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
The Triffids of Omicron Ceti III (TSoP)
The refreshingly non-human-looking Horta
Organians*
Klingons! (Remarkably human looking).
(The Guardian of Forever)
Flying pancakes
Season 2
Sylvia and Korob
The Companion
The remarkably human looking (though tall) Cappellans.
Native Pollux IV-ians (Apollo and his gang)
Full-blooded Vulcans
The remarkably human looking citizens of Argelius II (WitF)
Redjac
The People of Vaal (Gamma Triangulians)
Crew of the ISS Enterprise
The remarkably human-looking** (except for maybe a dot on their forehead) Halkans
Tribbles (not at all human looking)
The remarkably human-looking citizens of...892-VI. Is that what they call this planet? (The Roman one.)
Tall guys, short guys, Andorians, Tellurites, purple lady, Orion made up like an Andorian. (JtB)
The remarkably human-looking people of Neural. (APLW)
The awesome Mugato!
Shahna, Lars, Tamoon, Kloog, Thrallmaster Galt, and the Providers
The Cloud from the Tycho system.
The BIG FREAKIN' AMEBA!!!!!
The remarkably human-looking Iotians. (Gangsters)
Kelvans! Who really look like big, cool squids but choose to look remarkably human.
Sargon and the gang of not-quite-omnipotent aliens.
Remarkably human looking Zeons of Zeon and Ekosians of Ekos. (PoF)
*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
**By request
PATTERNS OF FORCE
Superficially, this is another duplicate Earth, trapped-landing party trope filled episode.
However, in execution it’s the darkest episode of Trek we’ve had for some time.
The threat to the crew, the full horrors of the Nazi regime and the impact of its philosophies, everything is played entirely straight.
Given that the Nazis were defeated only 20 years earlier, this is entirely appropriate. No rip roaring, melodramatic WW2 resistance adventures here, thank you Captain Janeway!
So, while maybe not the most uplifting episode Trek has had to offer, but still a solid, worthwhile tale (the 1960s’ misinterpretation of how efficient Nazi Germany was not withstanding).
Other thoughts:
Superficially, this is another duplicate Earth, trapped-landing party trope filled episode.
However, in execution it’s the darkest episode of Trek we’ve had for some time.
The threat to the crew, the full horrors of the Nazi regime and the impact of its philosophies, everything is played entirely straight.
Given that the Nazis were defeated only 20 years earlier, this is entirely appropriate. No rip roaring, melodramatic WW2 resistance adventures here, thank you Captain Janeway!
So, while maybe not the most uplifting episode Trek has had to offer, but still a solid, worthwhile tale (the 1960s’ misinterpretation of how efficient Nazi Germany was not withstanding).
Other thoughts:
- Still no good reason for just Kirk and Spock to beam down, but I will admit that they’ve got this whole beaming down to strange alien worlds down to a fine art now; discrete landing zone, perfect clothing and subcutaneous transponders
- The few lighter moments through the episode are timed well to relieve the tension. The goofiest is probably Spock babbling during the jail break, but even that is not out of character.
- Despite 23rd century fashion trends, Vulcans do not wax their chests. It would be illogical, I guess
I'm not a big fan of Patterns of Force. I struggle to get on board with any of the alternate Earth style stories and if they focus only on the troika from the recurring cast, it's even harder to find anything fresh to enjoy.
That's not to say there was no potential in the episode if perhaps a longer story with more layers could have been told.
That's not to say there was no potential in the episode if perhaps a longer story with more layers could have been told.
I like PoF despite minimal Scotty - he's left in command but has one line, in the transporter room. Kirk and Spock do a good job on the planet's surface. The jailbreak is inspired and the "alien pistols" line is a classic. The young dude playing Isak is a really good actor.
Few people ever mention Valora Noland (Daras) among the women of Star Trek, but she did a great job, and her character was tough and authoritative. Beautiful gal.
Few people ever mention Valora Noland (Daras) among the women of Star Trek, but she did a great job, and her character was tough and authoritative. Beautiful gal.
She didn't do much else after though, Phase! Germany had banned this episode for many a year I heard. And am I the only poster here who gets the Skippy reference? 
JB
JB
She didn't do much else after though, Phase! Germany had banned this episode for many a year I heard. And am I the only poster here who gets the Skippy reference?
JB
Skippy for Skip Homeier, JB? That's what I figured!
Yeah, Ms. Noland seems to have stopped acting just a couple of years after PoF, although she's still with us. It certainly wasn't for lack of talent; I thought she was great.
I think his real name was George Homeier and he was called Skippy for films he made in the forties, Phase! 
JB
JB
The Ultimate Computer
It's nice to see a space station again.
Huh. Giotto got a nice promotion.
Daystrom is one tall dude.
Oh, Daystrom is so smug. "Humans are so last century. We don't need them."
I'm thinking 20 remaining crew isn't enough. You'd still need a full engineering crew. M-5 doesn't have hands, it can't repair anything. You might even need the full Sickbay staff.
I remember asking when this episode came up in the 50th anniversary viewing thread what other jobs could Kirk do besides command a starship? I think someone responded with commanding a star base. What else could he do?
This episode is a good analysis of Kirk's dealing with the potential loss of his job. Much of his identity is built on being a starship captain. It's difficult to lose that.
I remember watching some movie set in the late 1800's and these scientist philosopher types are sitting around talking about the coming Utopia, how machines will do all the work so humans can live lives of leisure. But somehow in real life, when a machine takes someone's job, it doesn't lead to leisure, it leads to panic and hardship.
In not recommending Kirk go with the landing party, clearly M-5 is not aware of how many missions rely on Kirk pulling a solution out of his butt.
What a fake cliffhanger going into that commercial. "That thing's turning off systems all over the ship!" Yeah, it's not really a problem. Psych!
These wargame scenes are very exciting.
Okay, the M-5 is good, but it would never think to do a Corbomite Maneuver or outsmart a Romulan commander that's been attacking Federation outposts with his new cloaking device.
"Captain Dunsel." Wesley is such a dick. It's a trial run. Things could go wrong. It's not like the people aboard don't still need a leader. There is still a need for a Captain on this run. Besides, Wes, if this works out M-5 will take your job too. And then later Wesley thinks Kirk is responsible for the deadly attack rather than imagining it might be an M-5 problem. Like somehow in Wesley's mind the M-5 can do all and never make a mistake. I wonder where that comes from.
The Woden looks suspiciously like Khan's ship.
M-5 with HAL's voice "I'm sorry, Jim, I can't let you do that" as they try to disconnect it.
GAH! M-5 just zapped a redshirt!
I like these little talks between Kirk and McCoy this episode.
I'm not really sure that M-5's not acting logically despite what Spock says. Its actions seem logical to me. Everything it does is for a reason. For that matter, for as often as humans are called illogical on this show, it seems to me that humans actually are logical. A person might be delusional and take irrational actions, but those actions are perfectly logical to that person based on what they know and believe.
Wesley blaming Kirk for the attack. Gee, I thought Kirk was Captain Dunsel.
Daystrom sucks at talking a computer to death. Step aside, Richard, let Kirk show you how it's done.
Is that James Doohan doing M-5's voice? For the first time it sounds like him to me.
Why is Kirk so sure his one ship will beat the three remaining others?
Kirk sets the Logic Trap: make the computer declare its highest value that violation would require death then show it that it has violated that value and deserves to die. Kirk makes another notch on his belt.
Another episode with a humorous ending after people have died, in this case hundreds of their fellow Starfleet officers.
A good episode with a timeless message.
Alien Watch! No, M-5 doesn't count.
Season 1
Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
The Triffids of Omicron Ceti III (TSoP)
The refreshingly non-human-looking Horta
Organians*
Klingons! (Remarkably human looking).
(The Guardian of Forever)
Flying pancakes
Season 2
Sylvia and Korob
The Companion
The remarkably human looking (though tall) Cappellans.
Native Pollux IV-ians (Apollo and his gang)
Full-blooded Vulcans
The remarkably human looking citizens of Argelius II (WitF)
Redjac
The People of Vaal (Gamma Triangulians)
Crew of the ISS Enterprise
The remarkably human-looking** (except for maybe a dot on their forehead) Halkans
Tribbles (not at all human looking)
The remarkably human-looking citizens of...892-VI. Is that what they call this planet? (The Roman one.)
Tall guys, short guys, Andorians, Tellurites, purple lady, Orion made up like an Andorian. (JtB)
The remarkably human-looking people of Neural. (APLW)
The awesome Mugato!
Shahna, Lars, Tamoon, Kloog, Thrallmaster Galt, and the Providers
The Cloud from the Tycho system.
The BIG FREAKIN' AMEBA!!!!!
The remarkably human-looking Iotians. (Gangsters)
Kelvans! Who really look like big, cool squids but choose to look remarkably human.
Sargon and the gang of not-quite-omnipotent aliens.
Remarkably human looking Zeons of Zeon and Ekosians of Ekos. (PoF)
*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
**By request
It's nice to see a space station again.
Huh. Giotto got a nice promotion.
Daystrom is one tall dude.
Oh, Daystrom is so smug. "Humans are so last century. We don't need them."
I'm thinking 20 remaining crew isn't enough. You'd still need a full engineering crew. M-5 doesn't have hands, it can't repair anything. You might even need the full Sickbay staff.
I remember asking when this episode came up in the 50th anniversary viewing thread what other jobs could Kirk do besides command a starship? I think someone responded with commanding a star base. What else could he do?
This episode is a good analysis of Kirk's dealing with the potential loss of his job. Much of his identity is built on being a starship captain. It's difficult to lose that.
I remember watching some movie set in the late 1800's and these scientist philosopher types are sitting around talking about the coming Utopia, how machines will do all the work so humans can live lives of leisure. But somehow in real life, when a machine takes someone's job, it doesn't lead to leisure, it leads to panic and hardship.
In not recommending Kirk go with the landing party, clearly M-5 is not aware of how many missions rely on Kirk pulling a solution out of his butt.
What a fake cliffhanger going into that commercial. "That thing's turning off systems all over the ship!" Yeah, it's not really a problem. Psych!
These wargame scenes are very exciting.
Okay, the M-5 is good, but it would never think to do a Corbomite Maneuver or outsmart a Romulan commander that's been attacking Federation outposts with his new cloaking device.
"Captain Dunsel." Wesley is such a dick. It's a trial run. Things could go wrong. It's not like the people aboard don't still need a leader. There is still a need for a Captain on this run. Besides, Wes, if this works out M-5 will take your job too. And then later Wesley thinks Kirk is responsible for the deadly attack rather than imagining it might be an M-5 problem. Like somehow in Wesley's mind the M-5 can do all and never make a mistake. I wonder where that comes from.
The Woden looks suspiciously like Khan's ship.
M-5 with HAL's voice "I'm sorry, Jim, I can't let you do that" as they try to disconnect it.
GAH! M-5 just zapped a redshirt!
I like these little talks between Kirk and McCoy this episode.
I'm not really sure that M-5's not acting logically despite what Spock says. Its actions seem logical to me. Everything it does is for a reason. For that matter, for as often as humans are called illogical on this show, it seems to me that humans actually are logical. A person might be delusional and take irrational actions, but those actions are perfectly logical to that person based on what they know and believe.
Wesley blaming Kirk for the attack. Gee, I thought Kirk was Captain Dunsel.
Daystrom sucks at talking a computer to death. Step aside, Richard, let Kirk show you how it's done.
Is that James Doohan doing M-5's voice? For the first time it sounds like him to me.
Why is Kirk so sure his one ship will beat the three remaining others?
Kirk sets the Logic Trap: make the computer declare its highest value that violation would require death then show it that it has violated that value and deserves to die. Kirk makes another notch on his belt.
Another episode with a humorous ending after people have died, in this case hundreds of their fellow Starfleet officers.
A good episode with a timeless message.
Alien Watch! No, M-5 doesn't count.
Season 1
Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
The Triffids of Omicron Ceti III (TSoP)
The refreshingly non-human-looking Horta
Organians*
Klingons! (Remarkably human looking).
(The Guardian of Forever)
Flying pancakes
Season 2
Sylvia and Korob
The Companion
The remarkably human looking (though tall) Cappellans.
Native Pollux IV-ians (Apollo and his gang)
Full-blooded Vulcans
The remarkably human looking citizens of Argelius II (WitF)
Redjac
The People of Vaal (Gamma Triangulians)
Crew of the ISS Enterprise
The remarkably human-looking** (except for maybe a dot on their forehead) Halkans
Tribbles (not at all human looking)
The remarkably human-looking citizens of...892-VI. Is that what they call this planet? (The Roman one.)
Tall guys, short guys, Andorians, Tellurites, purple lady, Orion made up like an Andorian. (JtB)
The remarkably human-looking people of Neural. (APLW)
The awesome Mugato!
Shahna, Lars, Tamoon, Kloog, Thrallmaster Galt, and the Providers
The Cloud from the Tycho system.
The BIG FREAKIN' AMEBA!!!!!
The remarkably human-looking Iotians. (Gangsters)
Kelvans! Who really look like big, cool squids but choose to look remarkably human.
Sargon and the gang of not-quite-omnipotent aliens.
Remarkably human looking Zeons of Zeon and Ekosians of Ekos. (PoF)
*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
**By request
I agree that 20 crew isn't really enough to monitor and repair a ship but I suppose if they're all engineers and a couple of yeomen to make the coffee, it might just about work.
It is very daft that Wesley's instinct is that Kirk has gone rogue rather than a system malfunction but then their coil emissions were normal...
It's a fun episode, although after that mess in Discovery, I wonder why Spock wasn't more reluctant to endorse more automation.
It is very daft that Wesley's instinct is that Kirk has gone rogue rather than a system malfunction but then their coil emissions were normal...
It's a fun episode, although after that mess in Discovery, I wonder why Spock wasn't more reluctant to endorse more automation.
I suppose Commodore Wesley may have believed that Kirk went mad after the realization of M-5 taking over his vessel and his loss of command had sent him over the edge! He had no real reason to suspect that the M-5 had had a breakdown of sorts! And many other Starfleet captains have gone berserk in the past few years as well!
JB
JB
Presumably, it operates on a different type of AI than that, so he thinks it's okay.
THE ULTIMATE COMPUTER
After doing this TOS rewatch, I might almost believe that the M5 experiment is Starfleet's reaction to Kirk constantly beaming down onto alien planets with only himself, Spock & McCoy on the landing party. In this episode he claims he'll be taking an astrobiologist and a geologist as well, but do we really believe him?
Anyway, this is a strong episode that a lot has been said of over the years, so I only have a few observations:
After doing this TOS rewatch, I might almost believe that the M5 experiment is Starfleet's reaction to Kirk constantly beaming down onto alien planets with only himself, Spock & McCoy on the landing party. In this episode he claims he'll be taking an astrobiologist and a geologist as well, but do we really believe him?
Anyway, this is a strong episode that a lot has been said of over the years, so I only have a few observations:
- Another episode where the Enterprise is virtually devoid of crew...for totally valid plot reasons! @Poltargyst has already pointed out how unlikely it is that only 20 crew could run & maintain a starship. Unless M5 has flying maintenance bots?
- I like Daystrom – he’s a flawed character, but incredibly driven, determined to better his 25 year old self. I find him very believable and the actor delivers a strong performance.
- Kirk’s introspection shows the character in a very good light, only really raising his voice when the M5 commits acts of destruction (which is understandable). The rest of the time he faces his new future head on, albeit with uncertainty.
- Kirk is in his gold tunic, AGAIN! Maybe all the green wraparounds were starting to wear out by this point in the production run?
- Is there some reason they can’t just use hand communicators to warn the other ships? Harry Mudd had no problem reaching the miners!
Similar threads
