Production Order Group Viewing 2018

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Archivist13, May 8, 2018.

  1. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If that's what you're going for, I would suggest a different term without the historical baggage. A batman had nothing to do with security. They were domestic servants, paid to do laundry, make tea and beds, sweep and dust an officer's quarters etc. It was a side job, paid from the officer's pocket, in addition to the soldier's ordinary duties.
     
  2. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I confess , when someone mentioned it on a different thread, I Google it and focused more on their role as personal driver and bodyguard on the field of battle. B-)

    Making that tea could have earned Rand more rapid promotion though!
     
  3. Shawnster

    Shawnster Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Batman is all about security. Just ask The Joker.
     
  4. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    *I'm* Batman.
     
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  5. Poltargyst

    Poltargyst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What Are Little Girls Made Of?

    What does that title have to do with the episode?

    "Have you ever been engaged, Mr. Spock?" " Why yes, I have a conniving wife on Vulcan who's waiting for my Pon Farr."

    I'm not sure about this business of the captain beaming down into an uncertain situation like that without backup (all due respect to Chapel).

    Lurch! Why is Lurch sneaking around killing redshirts?

    Hellooooooooo, Andrea! What a tasty outfit.

    Ted Cassidy freakin' dwarfs William Shatner.

    Yes, let's start with Andrea.

    Dr. Korby is like a crazy Bond villain.

    Come, Andrea, kiss Polt.

    Why does the android maker have to spin?

    "Mind your own business, Mr. Spock..." Makes me wonder if Kirk has some latent racism down in there that he was able to draw on to imprint on the Kirkdroid.

    It would have been cool if Kirk had mentioned Khan when he was listing tyrants.

    Ruk is pretty spry for a big guy.

    Should I mention the big penis stalactite? How can I not?

    Kirk, confusing the androids with his crazy human logic. I wonder if that will become a theme...

    Bye, Ruk.

    What? Korby's an android?!?

    Damn. When Andrea wants to kiss you, LET HER.

    Bye, Rog. But more importantly, bye, Andrea, in your hot skimpy outfit.

    Go on, Spock, give Christine a hug.

    Not one of my favs, but it was enjoyable to see it again.

    Alien Watch. Not sure if I can add any of the androids. Does Ruk count? Decisions, decisions....

    Talosians
    That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
    Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
    Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
    Ron Howard's brother
    That dog from Enemy Within
    Salt monster
    That hand plant...Gertrude
    Spock (duh)
    Charlie's parents (Thasians)
    Romulans!
    (Ruk)
     
  6. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't see Rand getting a mask on over that beehive...
     
  7. mb22

    mb22 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  8. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thanks, that actually makes a lot of sense. I suspect that Chapel being a student of Korby may date back to that earlier draft of the script.
     
  9. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think WALGMO is fun as the first in a long line of 'robots are bad 'nkay' episodes. It doesn't quite gel but it has its, moments including the first of many successful attempts by Kirk to weaponise snoo snoo and the notorious giant dildo.

    I quite like when existing characters are drafted in to play a central role where it fits and it's nice to give Chapel some development even if it's weird that she's so jealous given that she's fallen for Spock. Women eh?

    My principal complaint is that, despite being repeatedly touted as a scientist, she sits around, mouth agape, making no worthwhile observations or contribution apart from ordering Rukh to save Kirk. This is a very common pastime for female scientists in Trek. It's so hard to stay focused on science with all those men around.

    My biggest problem is that after this episode they totally forgot that she is a research biologist. In every other medical episode, she just hands McCoy slides or results with no observations or opinions until TMP. A few lines of technobabble would have suited Majel.

    Kirk on the other hand is all sorts of awesome. He's a caged animal looking for escape at every turn. There's none of the patient strategising we saw in Balance of Terror or Corbomite Manoeuvre. He doesn't always think that far forward but that might be because he feels he's in a weak position, isolated, with only one other officer who has torn loyalties.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
  10. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Her interest in Spock may have been the first crush she'd experienced after losing Korby. She apparently has a thing for brooding scientists.

    Once Korby is found, her old love for him flares up. When she realizes he's not who he once was (and maybe never was) her love flames out.
     
  11. Shawnster

    Shawnster Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    From "The Naked Time"

    So, Chapel signed on the Enterprise a little bit before this week's episode. Long enough to form friendships and even a crush on Spock. Had she not been drunk under the influence of the Psi 2000 virus, she may never have revealed this crush. After all, she signed on with the hope (so it appears) of finding Korby, her fiance.

    Kirk and Chapel are not the least bit cold even at the initial beam-down site. I can understand the cavern rooms having a warmer temperature with heat regulation. Underground caves typically are always the year-round average surface temperature where they are located. That beam-down site at the mouth of the cave should have been freezing cold. Perhaps the uniforms have some kind of thermal protection. Does not explain their heads and hands not being cold though.

    If the uniforms do not have thermal abilities, why did they beam down unprotected? They had no idea what to expect in the caves, but the knew the surface was arctic conditions. Parkas? Warm weather gear?

    Dr. Brown was replaced with an android. What happened to the original Dr. Brown? Was he murdered by Korby? Ruk? Accident? Brown was replaced, but it appears his "consciousness" or "soul" was not transferred like Korby's was. Perhaps Brown felt the exploitation of this technology was immoral and refused to be a part of Korby's plan?

    Was there a real Andrea that was part of Korby's expedition? Was she replaced like Brown? It's interesting that Andrea, Brown, and Korby are all wearing green and blue jumpsuits but Ruk is dressed differently. Was Ruk the only "original" android?

    Speaking of those jumpsuits - interesting how Andrea's seemed to lack most of the top portion.

    Nice interplay between Uhura and Chapel at the beginning. I do appreciate these moments that really flesh out these people work and live together and have done so for a while. Even Kirk's "message" to Spock shows a level of familiarity that had to develop over time.

    Why wasn't Korby waiting for Kirk and Chapel at the beam-down location? If you want to keep someone from nosing around and stumbling upon secrets they should not, you supervise them the whole time. You aren't late to the meeting. Or send Dr. Brown. Someone should have been there before they beamed down. They are androids, they know how long it takes to walk to the cave entrance. Even humans would know how long. You tell Kirk to beam down at X time and make sure you are there first.

    I like seeing "The Cage" phasers. It's a sense of realism. These civilians don't have the latest Starfleet (are they called Starfleet yet?) equipment. They have older equipment or civilian versions.

    Anybody keeping a body count? Are these the first 2 redshirts to die?

    Androids do not understand emotion. Only Korby, whose entire consciousness was transferred, emotes normally. Except Ruk acts pretty emotionally. A difference between the Old Ones building androids and Korby trying to imitate them?

    Even with a consciousness inside the machine body, a human will go crazy. Megalomaniac. Or maybe just Korby. Full consciousness transfer could be a good thing for those critically injured. A full body prosthetic. Chapel couldn't love Korby though, not in his artificial body. Or maybe she was rejecting what he became mentally. Are we seeing a bias against artificial life? Chapel was not disgusted by Korby until she saw the wires. Up to that point she had not been repulsed by the "conquer the galaxy" attitude Korby displayed. "Duplicate the Captain and take over the Enterprise? Oh, my darling fiance, my loyalty is to you and not Starfleet. What? You're an artificial life form? You die! You go to hell and you die!"

    This technology is incredible. I wonder what happens to it. Will Starfleet study these androids? Will they learn how to duplicate the technology and build more? Will we see future android characters? Of course, there is that flaw with emotions. Once an android is confronted with emotion, they being acting erratically. Only humans can control emotions.

    Whats the deal with all these paper cards Kirk2 shows Korby when discussing the Enterprise orders and destinations? Shouldn't he bring down a tablet or some other digital device? What is this, the 20th century?

    Wonder if George Samuel Kirk would have been better off getting that transfer he wanted.

    What is the deal with Spock smirking at the end? Almost like he isn't in control of his emotions.
     
  12. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like this and it makes a lot of sense. Both Man Trap and Naked Time started off as routine missions in known areas of space, so she could have come on board then, easily.

    If you look again at the cave mouth, there's a square edged transparent barrier fixed in place. A window to stand and observe the blizzards outside, perhaps?
    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x07hd/whatarelittlegirlsmadeofhd067.jpg
    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x07hd/whatarelittlegirlsmadeofhd074.jpg

    The Nitpicker's Guide suggested that the amount of clothing you wear on this planet reflects your rank. Korby gets a black turtleneck sweater and full jumpsuit, Brown gets his jumpsuit downgraded to trousers with shoulder straps, while Andrea just gets the trousers and no sweater at all!

    That's the "command pack" and as such uses SPACE PAPER!!! :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
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  13. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh yeah, I'd forgotten the fact that they just fly off and forget all the possible uses for limb replacement, dementia, and so forth. Presumably they just clone replacement body parts these days?
     
  14. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It started with the idea that Andrea was made artificially, then the emotional strength that Chapel would have to exhibit (as in "Show them what you're made of") and from there they thought of the nursery rhyme:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Are_Little_Boys_Made_Of?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  15. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Also, are we merely the sum of all our parts, or is there something more to us, a soul, which cannot be duplicated?
     
  16. Shawnster

    Shawnster Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The consistent answer in Star Trek is that conscious, intelligent, sapient, sentient, sophont lifeforms are more than just the sum of their parts.

    In the case of Lal or Rayna their computer brains could not handle being something more. The exocomps became more than what they were. Data was definitely portrayed as more than just a machine. In the case of holograms, Minuete was more than just a program but only while the Binars were monkeying around with the computer. The EMH and Moriarty were presented as beyond simple holograms. Vic Fontaine gave the impression of being "alive" but I'm not so sure he wasn't more than just a sophisticated program.

    Korby seemed to be the only one to be more than the sum of his mechanical parts, but he went cray cray.

    Well, Ruk may have also been more than the sum of his parts. He seemed more "alive" than Andrea or Dr. Brown.
     
  17. Poltargyst

    Poltargyst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Dagger of the Mind

    Van Gelder's lucky no one was looking at his box when he came out of it on the transporter.

    Good job of acting Van Gelder's craziness throughout

    OMG! Helen Noel! Hottie of hotties! I don't care much about the episode, but Helen rocks my world. In fact, they could have 50 minutes of Dr. Noel walking around in her mini-skirt, and I would sit and watch entranced.

    Kirk says she better be the best assistant he's ever had...Best "assistant?" She's not a yeoman. Isn't she a psychiatrist?

    Van Gelder rants about the neuroneutralizer and it sounds horrible, and then we cut to Kirk and Noel at the neuroneutralizer so we know to be worried.

    Neuroneutralizer...what is that called in Men in Black? Neuralizer? Seems to operate on the same principle, only the MIB carry them around in their pockets.

    Interesting that the facility's shield blocks communication as well as beaming.

    First mind meld! And well acted by both.

    McCoy's pretty pushy about Spock doing the mind meld considering he doesn't know much about it and given that it's an intensely personal experience. I'll chalk it up to McCoy's concerns for the Captain.

    I'll say again, Morgan Woodward's a good actor.

    So often in tv shows and movies the villains overplay their hands, take actions they don't need to take. What was Adams's point in working over Kirk in the neuroneutralizer? I mean if Adams does nothing, it's possible Kirk finds nothing wrong and goes on his way. Why assault the Captain? Was it really just so irresistible for Adams to experiment on a new subject?

    I'm glad they gave Helen something to do besides look hot. And she saves the day! Go Helen!

    In fact, they really should have had a Dr. Helen Noel spinoff series. About her using her psychoanalytical techniques (and hotness) to solve mysteries in the 23rd century. In a miniskirt. Yeah.

    So Adams tells Kirk in the chair to drop the communicator, but Kirk tries contacting the Enterprise. Which he couldn't have reached anyway if the shield was up. Hard to remember details when you're in the neuroneutralizer.

    How is Kirk so spry to beat up badguys after that experience in the chair?

    Quite a strong kick Helen gave that guy to send him into the electrical thing.

    The look on Spock's face as Helen and Kirk are kissing. Haha.

    That scene at the end...Kirk has such a lonely look on his face like he knows just what Adams went through. He pauses and causes looks of concern on McCoy's and Spock's faces. Then Kirk smiles, Spock gets that reassured look, and all is right with the world.

    So does Kirk once again overcome some form of mind control due to his love for Enterprise, or does he remain madly in love with Helen? That gets dispensed with rather easily.

    I don't think I caught any new aliens unless they were among the extras in the background which I can't be bothered with, so the Alien Watch remains

    Alien Watch:
    Talosians
    That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
    Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
    Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
    Ron Howard's brother
    That dog from Enemy Within
    Salt monster
    That hand plant...Gertrude
    Spock (duh)
    Charlie's parents (Thasians)
    Romulans!
    (Ruk)
     
  18. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is another episode where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

    Helen is one of my favourite female characters. She has a winsome quality and holds her own with Kirk. She's a much better foil for him than Rand, a bit like Mckenna in the ST continues series. I would not want to be without Helen but it's easy to see how the original script was written with Yeoman Rand in mind and could have worked just as well, possibly even drawing a line under their attraction going foward. Grace was up for more action and begrudged being relegated to a space waitress. It would have been great to see one of the regular women taking on an action role and might have led to better representation as the series progressed.

    What's more frustrating is that Helen would have made a fun character to see again. And the Children Shall Lead, Whom Gods Destroy, Shore Leave, or Turnabout Intruder could all have benefitted from a bit of Helen.

    That said, some of her professional assessments make you wonder if she just downloaded her qualifications off the Internet. It is quite a common TOS trope to establish a female character's qualifications in dialogue and then have them display none of those qualifications in the plot.

    I find Adams' motivation to be a bit obtuse. Is he obsessively motivated to help by unethical means? Is he on a power trip? Is he just nuts? There are shades of Roger Korby here in that his true motivation is obscure. In some ways that is preferable to the gunning megalomaniacs we see as villains in some more modern Trek. When he has Kirk in the machine, why not simply make him forget? He does seem to have a sadistic streak.

    Van Gelder was believable as a character but was he resistant to the treatment? Why not make him forget rather than inflicting pain whether tried to speak? This does suggest that Adams is a sadistic nut job rather than some more nuanced approach.

    It seems odd that transporters are not set to ping if the transported objects to not match expectations but we've seen this in the Man Trap too. Later on they were able to control what materialised more effectively but you would have thought that the possibility of beaming up explosives or alien diseases would lead to much better auto screening.

    The mind meld is awesome. It feels like something you would only try as a last resort and I lament the fact that they became a bit blasé about it later on, even using it on unwilling participants as if forgetting ethics or that Starfleet secrets could be disclosed by Spock if he's merging with someone else.
     
  19. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I guess he hopes that since he and she are beaming down together without a security team accompanying them, and therefore she's the only aide he has on this mission, he wants her to carry her weight.
     
  20. Shawnster

    Shawnster Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When did the difficulties surrounding Grace Lee Whitney begin in the production of these episodes? We haven't seen all the episodes with Rand in them yet (thinking about Miri), yet we're already commenting that episodes were changed to recast a different character and actress.