Please tell me Torchwood gets better
- Thread starter Chess Piece Face
- Start date
I think this.
I wish I could scrub the memory of Season 4 from my mind. At least Season 1 could be explained as they were "figuring things out." Season 4, well, there's no excuse for such awful TV.
Do yourself a favor, don't continue on after Series 3.
Yes, Series 3 works as an ending for the series as they didn't know whether they'd be getting a fourth run, so it's easy to ignore Series 4 (or should that be Season 1? I don't think the programme was too sure either).
the only good things in Miracle Day were the rookie CIA babe and the traitor CIA babe.
Not true. There was that hot flight attendant, and the first guy Jack shagged. Not the second guy who was Kira's granddad.
I've always likened Torchwood to Enterprise. The people who defend it, especially the first couple of seasons, are always the pariahs.
I thought Season 1 was fine. It was a season of experimentation because there had never been a show like this before and on several occasions they were stretching their wings to see what they could get away with in a show set in the Whoniverse but intended for adults. Hence the sex, language and violence. The first season had some great moments, and Random Shoes - which is actually a Torchwood-lite episode in most respects - is remarkable. I was also very impressed with Countrycide which goes in directions the Whoniverse has never gone (including the fact it is not a science fiction story in any respect - first of its kind for the franchise; even Doctor Who's historicals at least had the TARDIS somewhere). And Out of Time was a rather romantic tale that probably should have been a 2-parter (I remember a few people saying they'd have rather the female pilot replace either Gwen or Tosh in the line-up). Not that the first season didn't have some terrible moments, including its own equivalent of TNG's "Naked Now" with Cyberwoman (Naked Now is often cited as TNG "getting it out of its system" in terms of doing a sequel to a TOS episode).
Season 2 was much better. The period of experimentation was over and the show started to find its own voice. I won't spoil but a few of the characters really go through the ringer. It just didn't feel right having a former companion join Torchwood, though.
Season 3 was excellent. It was another experiment yet this one was almost universally accepted. It's worth noting that you do not have to have seen the first two seasons to get into Children of Earth. There's a couple of references to events at the end of Series 2 that you can ignore, and it does require you to have seen The Stolen Earth/Journey's End on the parent show to get the significance of certain events. But that's it.
Miracle Day, Series 4, is going to be reevaluated positively once people start watching it on DVD/Blu-ray in chunks rather than an episode at a time. The story wasn't as tight as COE, but an author/English professor friend of mine says in terms of story structure and plot and character development it blows COE out of the water when taken as a whole. I liked it better than Children of Earth. What you (referring to the OP) need to take into account is some of the negativity over Miracle Day is continued fallout from an event that happens during COE (actually 2 events - one involving a popular character and another involving actions taken near the end of the story). Yet once again Miracle Day is structured in such a way you don't need to have seen the first 3 seasons and in fact it's a much better standalone than COE as you don't even need any Doctor Who knowledge, really.
Alex
I thought Season 1 was fine. It was a season of experimentation because there had never been a show like this before and on several occasions they were stretching their wings to see what they could get away with in a show set in the Whoniverse but intended for adults. Hence the sex, language and violence. The first season had some great moments, and Random Shoes - which is actually a Torchwood-lite episode in most respects - is remarkable. I was also very impressed with Countrycide which goes in directions the Whoniverse has never gone (including the fact it is not a science fiction story in any respect - first of its kind for the franchise; even Doctor Who's historicals at least had the TARDIS somewhere). And Out of Time was a rather romantic tale that probably should have been a 2-parter (I remember a few people saying they'd have rather the female pilot replace either Gwen or Tosh in the line-up). Not that the first season didn't have some terrible moments, including its own equivalent of TNG's "Naked Now" with Cyberwoman (Naked Now is often cited as TNG "getting it out of its system" in terms of doing a sequel to a TOS episode).
Season 2 was much better. The period of experimentation was over and the show started to find its own voice. I won't spoil but a few of the characters really go through the ringer. It just didn't feel right having a former companion join Torchwood, though.
Season 3 was excellent. It was another experiment yet this one was almost universally accepted. It's worth noting that you do not have to have seen the first two seasons to get into Children of Earth. There's a couple of references to events at the end of Series 2 that you can ignore, and it does require you to have seen The Stolen Earth/Journey's End on the parent show to get the significance of certain events. But that's it.
Miracle Day, Series 4, is going to be reevaluated positively once people start watching it on DVD/Blu-ray in chunks rather than an episode at a time. The story wasn't as tight as COE, but an author/English professor friend of mine says in terms of story structure and plot and character development it blows COE out of the water when taken as a whole. I liked it better than Children of Earth. What you (referring to the OP) need to take into account is some of the negativity over Miracle Day is continued fallout from an event that happens during COE (actually 2 events - one involving a popular character and another involving actions taken near the end of the story). Yet once again Miracle Day is structured in such a way you don't need to have seen the first 3 seasons and in fact it's a much better standalone than COE as you don't even need any Doctor Who knowledge, really.
Alex
Alex, regarding S4, I agree, hatred for it will most likely decrease when people start to marathon watch it.
S3 Children of The Earth, though it was indeed awesome, actually is tough to "marathon watch" because it's so intense and wrenching. I actually think, had it been stretched out another couple of episodes, it would be much easier to rewatch, because you'd have some time to come down from the emotional highs, rather than being on a roller coaster for 5 straight hours. But, of course, then it wouldn't have been so tight and awesome when watching an episode at a time
S3 Children of The Earth, though it was indeed awesome, actually is tough to "marathon watch" because it's so intense and wrenching. I actually think, had it been stretched out another couple of episodes, it would be much easier to rewatch, because you'd have some time to come down from the emotional highs, rather than being on a roller coaster for 5 straight hours. But, of course, then it wouldn't have been so tight and awesome when watching an episode at a time
I'm sorry. But I have to disagree with almost everything in this part of the post. The show is a mess. It introduces characters to have the die an episode later. It relies on characters to be stupid in order for the story to happen. The plotting was haphazard and empty. They just didn't have enough material to last 10 hours.
I don't care if your friend is a professor and author. They are wrong. If you were saying they were an author and an English professor to add credence to what they are saying, I'm an author too, and have a masters in playwriting. So.... maybe we cancel each other out.
Last edited:
Thanks everybody. I'm really looking forward to season 3. Maybe I will just jump into it, but maybe I won't. I tend to be a little OCD about watching stuff in order.
I think there's more impact for certain events if you watch more than Season 3. I didn't finish Season 1... but, I came back and watched all of 2. So, at the very least, 2 and 3.
Oh, please.
Don't be too afraid about the rest of season 1. Overall the season is dreadful, but there's a few decent episodes in the latter half. You've made it through Cyberwoman, so you've seen the worst the series has to offer and survived. I'd say keep going.
If you had started later, that would be alright if you skipped stuff in the beginning. But, there's changes to the characters, Gwen evolves all the way through the show, for instance.
I think most of Owen's S2 Arc is pretty worthwhile (Perhaps they overplayed it a bit, but, most of it was pretty good)
So, now that you're this far, I'd stick with it, so you can see the changes, instead of jumping straight into S3 and having to play catch up, with things that might be different then when you left off.
The OP mentioned that the Captain Jack in Torchwood is not the same Captain Jack from Doctor Who, which is a fair point. To that I'd add two things, one is the obvious effect the Doctor has on people, but the other is that, to a large extent, I don't think Jack is supposed to be exactly the same.
Series 2 really fills in the gaps between "The Parting of Ways" and Torchwood series 1, I won't try to ruin it, but suffice to say, Jack went through a lot between "The Parting of Ways" and Torchwood. Since you've seen all of nuWho, it's not a spoiler to say that Jack's goal for season 1 was to get back together with the Doctor and Rose (which, in "Utopia," he's partly successful in doing). His adventure with the Doctor and Martha rejuvenated him and his personality changes a bit for the second series of Torchwood.
To add to what others were saying, I really liked "Out of Time" and "Captain Jack Harkness" from Series 1. The rest were decent to poor (as with the oft-maligned "Cyberwoman.").
The Series 2 opener, "Reset," "Dead Man Walking," "A Day in the Death," "From Out of the Rain," "Fragments," and "Exit Wounds" are good, in my opinion, while the rest are okay (never did like "Meat," though). "Fragment," by the way, explains how each character came to Torchwood 3 and adds a lot to the characters, which fleshes them out.
"Children of Earth" is great through and through (and more a single story stretched over 5 episodes than separate stories).
I'm watching "Miracle Day" now and enjoying it, but it's on par with good Series 1 and 2 episodes, but far below "Children of Earth."
Series 2 really fills in the gaps between "The Parting of Ways" and Torchwood series 1, I won't try to ruin it, but suffice to say, Jack went through a lot between "The Parting of Ways" and Torchwood. Since you've seen all of nuWho, it's not a spoiler to say that Jack's goal for season 1 was to get back together with the Doctor and Rose (which, in "Utopia," he's partly successful in doing). His adventure with the Doctor and Martha rejuvenated him and his personality changes a bit for the second series of Torchwood.
To add to what others were saying, I really liked "Out of Time" and "Captain Jack Harkness" from Series 1. The rest were decent to poor (as with the oft-maligned "Cyberwoman.").
The Series 2 opener, "Reset," "Dead Man Walking," "A Day in the Death," "From Out of the Rain," "Fragments," and "Exit Wounds" are good, in my opinion, while the rest are okay (never did like "Meat," though). "Fragment," by the way, explains how each character came to Torchwood 3 and adds a lot to the characters, which fleshes them out.
"Children of Earth" is great through and through (and more a single story stretched over 5 episodes than separate stories).
I'm watching "Miracle Day" now and enjoying it, but it's on par with good Series 1 and 2 episodes, but far below "Children of Earth."
My opinion of Torchwood is really quite simple: meh.
I like Torchwood from one perspective only: that it shows a different side of the Whoniverse that we don't see in Doctor Who. I think it rounds out the "shared universe" that different programs have different tones and themes.
It's like the DC Universe used to be. Once apon a time, you had a happy-go-lucky, stretchy guy whose nose wiggled when he "smelled a mystery." Over in Gotham City, you had a guy who dressed up as a giant bat in order to scare criminals. In Metropolis there's a Boy Scout.
Same universe, different themes based on the characters and situations. In short, much like the real world.
The Whoniverse has the same thing. We have some teenagers fighting aliens in SJA. In Doctor Who, things are a little bit more complex and darker. Torchwood is dark to the point of being black.
I like that aspect of Torchwood. I don't like the excessive darkness. S5 completely lost me the moment they burned someone alive. That's a level of darkness that I simply don't need in my life, so I don't bother watching it.
That's my only real objection to Torchwood. It's so damned dark that it turns me off. Also, I don't think RTD can write romance to save his life, so you get Jack and John Hart alternately beating each other up and kissing; or heterosexual characters with no more motivation than to simply get laid.
Does Torchwood get "better"? Depends on what you like. It never got better for me.
Dakota Smith
I like Torchwood from one perspective only: that it shows a different side of the Whoniverse that we don't see in Doctor Who. I think it rounds out the "shared universe" that different programs have different tones and themes.
It's like the DC Universe used to be. Once apon a time, you had a happy-go-lucky, stretchy guy whose nose wiggled when he "smelled a mystery." Over in Gotham City, you had a guy who dressed up as a giant bat in order to scare criminals. In Metropolis there's a Boy Scout.
Same universe, different themes based on the characters and situations. In short, much like the real world.
The Whoniverse has the same thing. We have some teenagers fighting aliens in SJA. In Doctor Who, things are a little bit more complex and darker. Torchwood is dark to the point of being black.
I like that aspect of Torchwood. I don't like the excessive darkness. S5 completely lost me the moment they burned someone alive. That's a level of darkness that I simply don't need in my life, so I don't bother watching it.
That's my only real objection to Torchwood. It's so damned dark that it turns me off. Also, I don't think RTD can write romance to save his life, so you get Jack and John Hart alternately beating each other up and kissing; or heterosexual characters with no more motivation than to simply get laid.
Does Torchwood get "better"? Depends on what you like. It never got better for me.
Dakota Smith
...I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.
Skiddoo & Zoom -- I hate to break it to the both of you, but professors and authors are more than welcome to have their own opinions, and oftentimes they question and disagree with their own colleagues with the same titles (heck, that's a sizable chunk of the professor's bread and butter right there -- discussion and disagreement). And because of that, if about it's opinions and preferences and not facts, no one's wrong either. Ultimately, it comes down to: "To each their own"
So to the OP, even though I bashed Seasons 1, 2, and 4, your most honest bet is simply to watch them and judge for yourself.
I completely disagree. I did see it in chunks first time around and I think it's awful for all of the reasons most people have said in this thread. I often agree that marathon runs improve certain shows (Lost and Battlestar Galactica in particular), but I really don't think that's the case here.
Similar threads
