Pike's "woman on the bridge" line
- Thread starter Methuselah Flint
- Start date
Maybe you should check out the show before liking such an idiotic comment? Pike comes across very well in Discovery, and everyone knows I'm not the shows number one fan by any stretch of the imagination (I gave the latest episode a 3/10).
What arrant nonsense.
ANYWAY, on more off topic discussion. I think Spock's decision to leave was a logical one. Though he wasn't necessarily being written as "the Logical One" at the time. They couldn't trust anything they saw or did. A tactical retreat makes sense. And considering this took place 13 years before Menagerie it could have been early in Spock's service with Pike and thus he hadn't yet developed the same bond that he would have later.
We must be watching different shows. Even people who have hated Discovery from the start have enjoyed the depiction of Pike.
The Pike I've been watching has been an extremely competent commander who is sure of his ethical stances and willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to defend them, but is also open-minded and willing to listen to the suggestions of his subordinate's and incorporate them into a new plan as needed if he feels they provided a better option. That's the sign of a great commander, not a weak one, and in fact he was specifically called out for his exceptional moral code and described as being among the "best of us" by a Starfleet Admiral. And when given a glimpse of his horrific future he made the choice to do the right thing anyway for the sake of saving the galaxy and his people, consigning himself to that fate. You know, weakness.
Weakness would be being so inflexible and so lacking in confidence that you would disregard ideas from a subordinate because they were female or because they were of a lower rank. Weakness would be assuming that because you are male or a higher ranked officer that your ideas are by default always correct. Pike is the opposite of weak. Somehow I doubt the same objections were raised when he took advice or ideas from his subordinate Spock.
The show has honored the character and added even more substance and heart to his previously limited depiction.
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Also note that they cut the part where Spock tries to take the Enterprise and flee Talos IV without rescuing the captain. I think the cuts were for substance as well as time.
This one I agree with. The Cage's Spock abandoning Pike on Talos IV doesn't jibe with the Spock of 13 years later risking his life and career in the hopes of giving his former Captain a bit of happiness.
While it would obviously be an emotional response, I wonder if guilt over his actions 13 years ago was triggered in Spock after his hearing about Pike's predicament, hence his plan.
This one I agree with. The Cage's Spock abandoning Pike on Talos IV doesn't jibe with the Spock of 13 years later risking his life and career in the hopes of giving his former Captain a bit of happiness.
While it would obviously be an emotional response, I wonder if guilt over his actions 13 years ago was triggered in Spock after his hearing about Pike's predicament, hence his plan.
We tend to assume that social progression would be continuous into the future. But there could be periods of regression for whatever reasons, as there have been throughout history.
Kor
It was 1965. Having a woman on the bridge was progressive. I see the line as soft-sell to the audience.
Not every piece of dated or unfortunate dialogue has to be explained. Decker said, "what used to be called a black hole." I think Trek has used that term since...or do we throw out TNG, DS9 and VOY as an alternate timeline where black holes are still called black holes?
Not every piece of dated or unfortunate dialogue has to be explained. Decker said, "what used to be called a black hole." I think Trek has used that term since...or do we throw out TNG, DS9 and VOY as an alternate timeline where black holes are still called black holes?
We seem to also assume that what we are doing in the 'now' is social progression. I really believe that the intent behind The Original Series had the same heart in it as current Trek, yet on reflection we judge it differently. Fifty years from now what passes as social progression today will be flawed. People will say how could Pike be so wishy washy or whatever judgement is relevant. Oh look (cringe) it's the edgy 2018 episode where Tilly said 'fucken'. Did they really think that was cool back then when they made Discovery??
Of course most of us will be dead in fifty years with some oldies in their seventies and eighties lecturing these newcomers on what they should be thinking and saying anyway
Aw, SHIT!
If there is any dirt to be found where DeForest Kelley is concerned, just let me know and I will toss my 'heroes' list completely out the fucking window!
Why do we have threads like this? So a group of posters can denounce things and celebrate how much better they are then those "terrible people"?
I don't think anyone thinks it's a good line, it's there, and unless you want to live in a Stalinist reality where things that are no longer in vogue can just disappear and never have existed, you move on.
There will always be someone that doesn't like something.
I don't think anyone thinks it's a good line, it's there, and unless you want to live in a Stalinist reality where things that are no longer in vogue can just disappear and never have existed, you move on.
There will always be someone that doesn't like something.
It was 1964-69. The fact that TOS was as progressive as it was is a bit of a miracle.
Yes, in the sense that the line clearly exists in part to (clumsily and in a dated fashion) hang a lantern on what the writer assumed the viewers might see as an unlikely situation.
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