Pike's "woman on the bridge" line
- Thread starter Methuselah Flint
- Start date
Oh no doubt, but that doesn"t mean we're there yet.
There is no there. Someone will always object to something. You can not please all of the people.
Generally/ traditionally, white women or eurocentric looking women were sexualised and marginalised. All other women were lucky to get a look in. It's changing very slowly.
Unhelpful.
You cannot and will never please all people, especially the righteous.
I was watching Mission Impossible Rogue Nation last night and I was disappointed to see that such a very recent movie featured only one prominent female character. She was great but in one of the final scenes Alec Baldwin and Jeremy Renner were sat in front of a committee and it felt that the scene was so white , middle-aged, and male it made my eyes bleed. I don't understand why they didn't put any women on the committee. Who casts these things?
More interesting, it was only the first movie that featured more than one female agent on the team (most of whom died very quickly) and most of the subsequent movies portray the one woman to feature as the outsider (I think Maggie Q was one exception).
So yeah, I agree that there is a long way to go to normalise women and especially middle-aged women as prominent in non soap opera / medical drama shows and action movies.
There is a fair amount of vitriol directed at Discovery's decision to feature a diverse cast where white heterosexual males are no more common than everyone else. It's so jarring for some because it's never been done before.
More interesting, it was only the first movie that featured more than one female agent on the team (most of whom died very quickly) and most of the subsequent movies portray the one woman to feature as the outsider (I think Maggie Q was one exception).
So yeah, I agree that there is a long way to go to normalise women and especially middle-aged women as prominent in non soap opera / medical drama shows and action movies.
There is a fair amount of vitriol directed at Discovery's decision to feature a diverse cast where white heterosexual males are no more common than everyone else. It's so jarring for some because it's never been done before.
I have a feeling that was noted, because there’s a far more even ratio of male:female characters in MI:Fallout. Main cast, and background characters.
Of course, at least one of them was a former lead that got Bond Girl’d out of existence, and he absence was an elephant in the room that kinda demanded addressing. But at least two steps forward and one back, is still forwards.
Of course, at least one of them was a former lead that got Bond Girl’d out of existence, and he absence was an elephant in the room that kinda demanded addressing. But at least two steps forward and one back, is still forwards.
There's a difference between noticing something and looking for it. I notice when movies and TV shows are caucasian sausage fests because they don't reflect the very mixed reality of the places I've lived.
If you have to do a head count , they are probably doing an OK job. More often it's VERY obvious.I don't watch entertainment doing a head count of quota... yikes.
Rogue Nation was good Mission Impossible
Taking the status quo for granted would have given us no Sulu, no Uhura, no Chekov, no Sisko, no Bashir, no Janeway, no Stamets, and no Burnham. Sometimes it is important to challenge the status quo and Rogue Nation would have been just as cool with another female agent, a female secret service agent, and a female prime minister.
I suspect that we get reflections of the existing status quo in our entertainment. So an action spy adventure made in 2015 might reveal gender, age, and diversity inequality/reality of 2015 in its depictions of roles, government, professions etc. I look at the Government of Australia, the IT Department hubby works in, the library (as examples) and there is a different spread of gender, race and age. (Your point earlier about ageism is probably one that levels us all. Hit forty and see how relevant you still are).
When it comes to futuristic depictions you would think it would open the door to not being influenced by the reality of 'now'. So unlike say spy movies set in recent times, we have the option to put together any grouping we like - theoretically for science fiction set in the future. It just doesn't usually play out that way. Sixties Trek had 60's values and progressiveness. Current Trek has current values and progressiveness.
If Star Trek's The Cage wasn't revamped by t.v. executives it would have been another 'W.A.S.Ps in space' tv show. Thankfully $$$$ made them realise other humans had dead presidents in their wallets.
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I'm not so willing to let MI off the hook. Jason Bourne had more women in it. 25% of US senators are women except in movies. There is a problem with movie makers and that's why we need to challenge this sort of thing when we see it.
Despite Pike's comments, the Cage has some pretty awesome female characters. Vina and Number One are probably two of the best female characters in whole TOS run in that they both have a considerable amount of agency. I think the writers rowed away from this kind of progressive portrayal quite hard after the pilots.
Sally Kellerman is subject to a more personal insult from Gary Lockwood in the second pilot, implying that she can only be a good officer if she's unappealing as a woman.
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Fair enough. I can't say I didn't enjoy Rogue Nation though because I did. Its casting didn't actually register on my radar.
I love all the Mission Impossible movies. I just haven't forgiven them for killing Kristen Scott Thomas in the first one like she was a total amateur. She was only stabbed, she could have been saved following surgery and appeared the air hostess at the end of the movie. Now THAT would have been a good ending, and we could have had 6 movies with an awesome Lady Penelope style agent alongside all the bonkers action.
Kristen Scott Thomas is a class act. I love the parallel you made just then of a Lady Penelope style agent. That would so work. Sort of like The Avengers, old 60's version. It's kind silly by today's action standards, the karate moves and smugness but Emma Peel was divine.
I was in elementary school from 1972-1977. During that time, things in this district were not good. Boys were actually threatened that if they got their clothes dirty, they would be forced to wear a dress for the rest of the day. I had a gym teacher who, if you reported bullying / abuse by another student, would literally KICK both boys in the ass....and if his aim was off and he kicked you in the testicles, it was too bad because it was your fault anyway. Talking in the hallway was such a big no-no that I had a 4th grade teacher who made me stand in a corner and told me that I should just go away, like a bad cold. Had a swimming instructor who FORCED kids to try to swim. The son of a bitch almost succeeded in drowning me. Outside on the playground, in the winter, teachers did not pay enough attention to kids in line. I was on the end of a line one day, slipped on the ice, and my head came right down on the asphalt. No one saw it. I had to just pick myself up as best I could and move on. My vision was blurry for the rest of the day and I also threw up. I know it was a concussion. Those teachers were neglectful and outright abusive and some of them should have been imprisoned. You do not KICK young children, with their developing bodies, for ANY reason.
I think her character probably had more in common with Cinnamon from the sixties version. A lot of set pieces require old school espionage to set up and a middle-aged woman could fulfil that role perfectly.
I remember thinking, why is she ignoring the abort order and going into a dark dead end alley alone when there are two people behind her who could cut her off? Then I was thinking, the guy is down. You know there must be someone else in the alley, abort woman, ABORT, oh darn it.
Still too soon.
I went to elementary school in the same era and certainly didn't have it that bad. Was this just the school you attended or a regional thing?
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