Some of us already cringe at Discovery Pike...
...and everything else Discovery related.
Pike's "woman on the bridge" line
- Thread starter Methuselah Flint
- Start date
Heck, they had three women; Colt, Number One (who "is different"), and the officer sitting at the station with the printer at the front of the bridge, who apparently is very different, since Pike forgot he'd been standing right next to her five minutes before Colt showed up.
Men/Women relations could be cyclic. Maybe women had a different role in the mid-2200's due to something like a population shortage and women were protected (making babies, first on the life boats, etc.), maybe due to war. Having an abundance of women on Starships (or any spaceships) seems like a new policy. Even years later on Kirk's Enterprise, Gary Mitchell mentions that there were almost 100 women on board, like that was something new.
That's right. Now that you mention it, I remember thinking it was a terrible line when I first saw "The Cage" uncut on pay-per-view, and this was 33 years ago. It was as big a cringe line back then as it is today.
And at the time it was written, it was probably a very progressive, forward - thinking and ahead of it's time like.
Why do you assume that Colt was fresh out of Starfleet Academy and thus probably about 22? It seems quite possible that yeoman was an enlisted position and that Yeoman Colt could have been only eighteen.
Laurel Goodwin was born 11 august 1942 and so aged 22 years, 2 months, and 16 days on 27 November 1964 when filming started. But this could be an example of "Dawson casting" and Colt could have been years younger than Goodwin.
Grace Lee Whitney was born 1 April 1930 and was 36 years old when most of her episodes were filmed, and so was a rather mature yeoman. But Yeoman Janice Rand might have been a lot younger than her actor.
Charles Evens is said to be seventeen years old several times in "Charlie X". Rand is uncomfortable with his crush on her and so:
This implies that Yeoman Tina Lawton is about seventeen. Patricia McNulty (b. 13 August 1945) was 21 in "Charlie X", but that could be another case of "Dawson casting".
And so the dead "boy" that Yeoman Colt was a replacement for could have been about, say eighteen, about 20 years younger than Pike. And now he might have been replaced by someone also about eighteen, and female as well. So Pike might no be comfortable with having yet another and even more vulnerable looking potential victim of the dangers of space exploration around all the time and reminding Pike of his mistake on Rigel VII.
I wonder if there are any fan fictions about the officer sitting by the printer, explaining why how she was very different.
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That's likely what the line was meant to highlight, even as sexist as it comes across.
Eh. It was a product of its time. That's why in my head in just delete the line. Ditto with some of the other sexist crap spewed in the 1960s.
No use trying to retcon things, like Turnabout Intruder either. Just mentally update it in your head (and for me, be glad that woman are looked upon just a tad more favorably since I was a young lass).
No use trying to retcon things, like Turnabout Intruder either. Just mentally update it in your head (and for me, be glad that woman are looked upon just a tad more favorably since I was a young lass).
At least the line in question didn't make it into "The Menagerie."
In a way that may have something to do with it. And it just fell flat on their face.
I always figured the line was for the audience. Noting that things were different in the future.
It wasn't 'bad writing' as the U.S.S. Enterprise was depicted as a Military ship in the pilot.
All it shows is that GR is full of crap when he claims 'Star Trek' was always originally conceived from the start to be multi-cultural (it wasn't, that was added per a memo from NBC to ALL its current shows to try and include more minorities in casts as advertisers realized they watched TV too and bought products); or that "Woman were portrayed as equals..." - because the ONLY reason the character of "Number One" existed was that GR wanted to make his mistress (yes, he WAS married to someone else at the time) happy... <--- And that was one thing the NBC Execs on deciding whether or not to buy the show knew too; and that was probably a mor major reason they passed on it rather than it being 'too cerebral'. Remember the first studio he pitched this to was MGM, who were the ones who had made "Forbidden Planet" 7 years earlier (GR wasted pitching Star Trek in 1964); and "Forbidden Planet" was nothing but WASP white men in there prime. (And Altair was still ultimately a damsel in distress although she was highly intelligent and atypical for the time the film was made).
That's like, the definition of hypocrisy. "...the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense".
My defense of the line:
Okay, I'm done.
It was 1964. Just remember that and move on.
Okay, I'm done.
Sounds like Roddenberry in a nutshell to me.That's like, the definition of hypocrisy. "...the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense".
Yup, pretty much.Exactly. It's a snapshot of the time, for good or bad. Many, many other TVs shows from the same period were written the same way. It's very easy to condemn or judge based on current world view opinions. As Refuge says above, one day fans will cringe at stuff shown on TV today.
I feel like the line is just to highlight the progressiveness.
Just like how Worf always wants to shoot stuff so Picard has a chance to talk about how shooting is not the solution, even when it makes Worf look panicky or backwards.
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It's not an excuse though. I'm sure they were all sexist as hell.
I just think that line was about dramatic nuts and bolts, not informing us about Pike's character.
Just like how Worf always wants to shoot stuff so Picard has a chance to talk about how shooting is not the solution, even when it makes Worf look panicky or backwards.
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It's not an excuse though. I'm sure they were all sexist as hell.
I just think that line was about dramatic nuts and bolts, not informing us about Pike's character.
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