Picard series confirmed post-Romulus

[DaddlerTheDalek]

ST09 is ten years old. Spock Prime witnessed the destruction of Romulus in a movie that came out a decade ago. It's old news. It doesn't surprise me one bit that something like the destruction of the homeplanet and home star system of one of the most important factions of the alpha quadrant would shake up the Prime Trek universe. I mean d'uh. Now we are going to see the Prime Star Trek perspective of the aftermath.

 

[Rahul]

Speak for yourself.

That's what I do.

From 2005 until 2017 the only Trek was Kelvin Trek. I enjoyed it, as did millions of other Trek fans. Prime Spock's story was important to the overall plot of the first movie as he had to witness the destruction of 2 planets he cared deeply about ( one off screen ) and one in the new universe. I would be pissed if that was ignored in the Picard show. It was a major plot point of the movie. It was basically Spock's end.

There is no retroactive explaining. It was laid out plainly in ST09. Romulus was destroyed in the Prime universe. Eliminating the home world of one of the major powers in the region would clearly be a major factor in the dynamics of the Federation a decade or so later. The only way it would not impact the Picard show would be if they were planning to do a Voyager retread and set Picard at the edge of the galaxy somewhere.

Technically it is still unclear whether or not this series will take place in the Prime universe. All we know is it has Prime Picard and the destruction of Romulus was a factor. Picard could have been there, saw Spock decided to follow him, and then end up later in the Kelvin Universe where he has been dealing with whatever that could mean. This would piss me off and would likely piss off most people. This would be overly obsessed with self references because the Kelvin movies would be the only backstory available outside the backstory/ies that followed Picard.

And this is where you're wrong:
Ignoring the destruction of Romulus in the prime timeline DOES NOT negate the existence of the Kelvin-timeline movies! They're still there! The DVDs still exist. Ironically, this is the exact same argument the Kelvin-timeliners tried to make about the prime universe back in the day. Talk about hypocrisy....

Let's face it: The parts of ST09 that took place in the prime universe were some of the worst things of the franchise ("A supernova threaten to destroy the galaxy?", really?). Also, they are way closer to Kelvin-Trek than prime-Trek anyway, because that's essentially what they are...

But yeah, if they treat another homeworld destruction of a major empire (after Vulcan) as a small background event, only there to make one character (nuSpock) sad some times - that's bad.

But focusing the entire premise of your new show on cleaning up the mess you originall created - that's even worse!

Do-they or don't they -- -they screwed no matter what regarding fan-backlash.

But I personally think it would be foolish to shoot the new series in the own foot, only to appease people about some minor background detail in a now discontinued-movie line. If they really wante to go forward - and focus on, you know, the Trek currently on television - which is prime Trek again - they should focus on doing prime Trek right! NOT bending over backwards to avoid continuity issues with an alternate timeline reboot!

 

[Damian]

I agree with you--except that they chose not to establish this--intentionally. Orci is not a character in Star Trek. Canon is what happens on screen. On screen, the writers did not establish that Nero traveled to another universe AS WELL as through time. It would have been easy then. But because they did not say it, the only presumption has to be that they did not change universes, and the alternate realty created is the prime timeline overwritten--a result I think many fans would find undesirable--and one that in theory, the Picard show can fix in one line.

I'm not sure I agree. The characters in the movie did discuss this briefly and I even inferred from the conversation this was a different time line. Bob Orci's comments only confirmed what I already thought. When a writer of a movie says this is what they intended, absent any on screen information to the contrary, I accept it. It's true, if some later movie or show said, no it was overwritten, then Orci's comments are null and void at that point. But the inferences are there in the movie, the writer of the movie confirmed it, so I accept it until something on screen tells me otherwise. I have no reason to believe otherwise.

Put another way, there is nothing that happens on screen that negates Bob Orci's assertion. So I'm still not seeing the problem here.

 

[valkyrie013]

A supernova destroys a major power in the prime time.. There are questions that need to be answered!
Trek Lit was chomping at the bit to explain it (Sadly ... probably wont) And if the Picard extravaganze and boat show is set after, and was a major life changing event for the Picard.. then, questions will be asked, things will be explained.
I personally, want answers.. what happened? Who did it?? What is the fallout?? And if the Picard Polozzlala is set after, the supernova is the elephant in the room.. just can't ignore it.

 

[eschaton]

But using the Picard show to retroactively explain a background from another movie? Jesus Christ! These people should stop being so overly obsessed with self-references and their own lore! I like Star Trek. I don't like Star Trek mainly being about explaining previous Star Trek.

I just don't see this as being some sort of tremendous burden. The supernova itself can literally just be mentioned a single time, in a single episode. The aftermath - the dissolution of the Romulan Star Empire - could be important for the geopolitics of 2399 or not. All we know so far is Picard's life veered in a dramatically different direction afterward, but that was 12 years in the past of the show. Maybe he was transferred to overseeing relief efforts but has since retired, and it will just be part of the background of the series.

On the other hand, a power vacuum in the known galaxy offers a tremendous opportunity to write new stories. Why ignore it and invent some entirely new plot device? Just doesn't compute, IMHO.

I agree with you--except that they chose not to establish this--intentionally. Orci is not a character in Star Trek. Canon is what happens on screen. On screen, the writers did not establish that Nero traveled to another universe AS WELL as through time. It would have been easy then. But because they did not say it, the only presumption has to be that they did not change universes, and the alternate realty created is the prime timeline overwritten--a result I think many fans would find undesirable--and one that in theory, the Picard show can fix in one line.

There is no within show way to prove that something is the prime timeline, because "prime timeline" is an outside-the-show concept. Neither Picard nor anyone else will ever utter those words. In this particular case, you have to just take the statements of the showrunners as word of god - that this is a continuation of the (rough) continuity that ran from Enterprise through to Nemesis, not a slightly alternate universe.

 

[fireproof78]

Let's face it: The parts of ST09 that took place in the prime universe were some of the worst things of the franchise ("A supernova threaten to destroy the galaxy?", really?). Also, they are way closer to Kelvin-Trek than prime-Trek anyway, because that's essentially what they are...

Disagree on this point. The Prime parts as well as my familiarity with Prime events is what makes the Kelvin films resonate all the more for me.

Regardless, it has yet to establish why ignoring this beneficial to the story, when the storytelling possibilities are rather immense, especially with Picard's speech in Nemesis. I mean, it's like continuity is important here...

With all due respect, I get the sense that this personal animosity towards the Kelvin films (or this part of them) is coloring the opinion regarding the use of this plot point.

I just don't see this as being some sort of tremendous burden. The supernova itself can literally just be mentioned a single time, in a single episode. The aftermath - the dissolution of the Romulan Star Empire - could be important for the geopolitics of 2399 or not. All we know so far is Picard's life veered in a dramatically different direction afterward, but that was 12 years in the past of the show. Maybe he was transferred to overseeing relief efforts but has since retired, and it will just be part of the background of the series.

On the other hand, a power vacuum in the known galaxy offers a tremendous opportunity to write new stories. Why ignore it and invent some entirely new plot device? Just doesn't compute, IMHO.

Yes, precisely this.

 

[Damian]

I just don't see this as being some sort of tremendous burden. The supernova itself can literally just be mentioned a single time, in a single episode. The aftermath - the dissolution of the Romulan Star Empire - could be important for the geopolitics of 2399 or not. All we know so far is Picard's life veered in a dramatically different direction afterward, but that was 12 years in the past of the show. Maybe he was transferred to overseeing relief efforts but has since retired, and it will just be part of the background of the series.

On the other hand, a power vacuum in the known galaxy offers a tremendous opportunity to write new stories. Why ignore it and invent some entirely new plot device? Just doesn't compute, IMHO.



There is no within show way to prove that something is the prime timeline, because "prime timeline" is an outside-the-show concept. Neither Picard nor anyone else will ever utter those words. In this particular case, you have to just take the statements of the showrunners as word of god - that this is a continuation of the (rough) continuity that ran from Enterprise through to Nemesis, not a slightly alternate universe.

Yeah, I agree totally. I'm not sure why some people are interpreting his comments about the supernova to mean this is going to be the sole focus of the show. There's no reason to assume that based on that little piece of information.

And yes, there's a ton of story potential there. Remove a major player in the quadrant and it's going to have an impact that's ripe for stories. But the show is going to be focused on Picard, not the Romulans and not anyone else. That will all serve the character, not vice versa.

And yeah, short of a character turning to the camera and winking and saying, this is an alternate timeline, I'm not sure how they could sensibly say it explicitly on screen. There is no way they would have any idea that this is a parallel timeline, just like we can't prove now that there might be some alternate timeline running alongside ours. How do you prove something like that.

So that's why I accept what Bob Orci has said in interviews. Until something on screen contradicts it, there's no reason to think otherwise. It's almost ridiculous to argue about it (though I would never tell people what to think). To me it's as obvious as the nose on my face. I'm not seeing the contradiction here.

 

[Tuskin38]

But using the Picard show to retroactively explain a background from another movie?

Nothing says they’re doing that. The article doesn’t even imply that. The wording makes it sound like the supernova is just a background element, not the focus of the story just like it was in ST09. The show is set 12 years after it for Christ’s sake. So i doubt they’re going to go into any heavy detail as to why it happened.

I think Rahul is ignoring me.

 

[Seven of Five]

I'm so excited for this. It's even slightly overshadowing Discovery's return next week for me.

Never mind. The destruction of Romulus is the perfect springboard for the series.

 

[Owain Taggart]

There is no retroactive explaining. It was laid out plainly in ST09. Romulus was destroyed in the Prime universe. Eliminating the home world of one of the major powers in the region would clearly be a major factor in the dynamics of the Federation a decade or so later.

Exactly. It's done and done, and at this point, I consider it a foundation to build upon and move forward.

It's a jumping off point, a bit of background to ground the show. Without that background, what do you have, exactly? You'd have something far less cohesive, not to mention less reason to return to the Prime. If it's going to be a more cerebral show, it's going to need that good background. Twelve years later, what is Picard doing with his life? Surely he's just not brooding, but doing something interesting.

 

[The Overlord]

One thing I would I like to see more reoccurring and fleshed out Romulan characters.

You can have a psychopathic Romulan admiral declare himself Praetor and want to destroy any Romulans who do not swear loyalty to him and is obsessed with rebuilding the Empire, but I would like to see Picard become friends with the leader of some Romulan refugees that want to return to Vulcan. Maybe have a Romulan join Star Fleet (I know that is cliche, but I still like it).

 

[SolarisOne]

One thing I liked about the Star Trek '09 Romulans was their lack of forehead ridges. Perhaps we could have that feed back into the Picard show. A man can dream.

Maybe have a Romulan join Star Fleet (I know that is cliche, but I still like it).

And that Romulan will be named "Soleta".

 

[Damian]

One thing I liked about the Star Trek '09 Romulans was their lack of forehead ridges. Perhaps we could have that feed back into the Picard show. A man can dream.


And that Romulan will be named "Soleta".

I suspect you will get your wish as far as ridges. Each new regime adds their own little flares to the aliens.

 

[Tuskin38]

They can't changed the Romulans too drastically, since they left the Vulcans the same in DSC.

 

[SolarisOne]

They can't changed the Romulans too drastically, since they left the Vulcans the same in DSC.

I'm not sure that's the best comparison, since Vulcans have changed very little over the years.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'm not sure that's the best comparison, since Vulcans have changed very little over the years.

The Romulans will still need to visually resemble them though.

 

[Kirk Prime]

ST09 is ten years old. Spock Prime witnessed the destruction of Romulus in a movie that came out a decade ago. It's old news. It doesn't surprise me one bit that something like the destruction of the homeplanet and home star system of one of the most important factions of the alpha quadrant would shake up the Prime Trek universe. I mean d'uh. Now we are going to see the Prime Star Trek perspective of the aftermath.

But we don't know what year Spock Prime came from.

The characters in the movie did discuss this briefly and I even inferred from the conversation this was a different time line. Bob Orci's comments only confirmed what I already thought. When a writer of a movie says this is what they intended, absent any on screen information to the contrary, I accept it. It's true, if some later movie or show said, no it was overwritten, then Orci's comments are null and void at that point. But the inferences are there in the movie, the writer of the movie confirmed it, so I accept it until something on screen tells me otherwise. I have no reason to believe otherwise.

Here's the problem--this was where the writers had the chance to put works in the characters' mouths and actively chose not to do so. The only language used was "alternate reality." But if I travel back in time and wipe out the prime universe, of course the new timeline is an alternate reality. That line means nothing for proving the prime universe still exists.

As for the writers' intent. If Ron Moore and Brannon Braga did a joint press conference with Rick Berman and William Shatner, and they said, "we declare that Kirk did not die in Generations and Picard was just building a rock pile because he was bored," that would not change a thing.

You don't need a movie to say it was overwritten because we have 40 years of Star Trek that says just that. The burden of proof is on the writers to prove it still exists. But they still CAN.

 

[SolarisOne]

The Romulans will still need to visually resemble them though.

Which they would much moreso without the forehead ridges TNG added. They are the same species, after all.

 

[The Old Mixer]

There is no way they would have any idea that this is a parallel timeline, just like we can't prove now that there might be some alternate timeline running alongside ours. How do you prove something like that.

Technobabble!

 

[Tuskin38]

Which they would much moreso without the forehead ridges TNG added. They are the same species, after all.

Some people don't trust the production designers of the new Trek.

But we don't know what year Spock Prime came from.

2387 according to CBS.