Picard film in development

[donners22]

Without getting into spoilers, since I don't know if we're to the point we can discuss season 2 openly, but Strange New Worlds' "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" fundamentally alters the backstory of a pivotal character in Trek canon. If we're supposed to squint and say all of this still happens in the same timeline, you can't because those changes are totally incompatible with the dialogue and events in TOS and Wrath of Khan. And if people still want to believe it's the same after that, then the only way you can reconcile it is to say the original version has been erased and replaced by the version that Strange New Worlds offers up.

It had already been retconned long before SNW, as noted above. By the same film which also retconned Best of Both Worlds - or does the Borg Queen appear in your copy? She's certainly not in mine.

The newer shows do contradict and change some stuff. Some visually, some in more substance. So did the older shows. It's inevitable after this many instalments. Sometimes it just suits the needs of the current show, sometimes the old stuff just doesn't make sense anyway and is better off fixed (see, for instance, women not being allowed to be captains).

What I object to is the artificial drawing of a line between eras. There were plenty of complaints about canon inconsistencies long before the modern era, just as there were complaints about quality. Then along comes the newer shows, and it's as if everything before is an amorphous blob of idealised Trek, existing for the purpose of criticising anything new. It's lazy and boring.

 

[evilchumlee]

Exactly.

The SNW Enterprise IS the TOS Enterprise. Just imagined with modern technology. Just as the TOS Enterprise is imagined with 60's technology.

So then if it's reimagined... it's... not the original thing.

That's ok. Just call a spade a spade. It's almost if it's a reboot Enterprise.

 

[HotRod]

So then if it's reimagined... it's... not the original thing.

That's ok. Just call a spade a spade. It's almost if it's a reboot Enterprise.

No..... it's a visual retcon. As has been stated a thousand times. They are two different visual interpretations of the same thing.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Who went to see Picard the last time he was in a feature film, back in 2002? Not enough, apparently. So why would tons of people pay money to see a 100-year-old Picard twenty-two years later?

A lot of that falls on Nemesis being Nemesis. Just compare the teasers and trailers for the last two TNG films. The energy between the two films are night and day.

Star Trek: Insurrection

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One thing I’ll give INS is that looking at both the teaser and the trailer, at least it looks like a cool star Trek film. The teaser does mislead viewers into thinking a bunch of Federation ships – Akira class, Steamrunner class and Saber class - are attacking the Ent-D and aiding the Son’a at 1:33,. While its not unusual for a Star trek trailer at the time; the teaser trailer for FC start with the overture from TUC and leads into the music from BoBW, and features a lot of misleading shots with the USS Pasteur exploding, the Ent-D being attacked in “Q Who”, the Battle of Wolf 359 from “Emissary” and Voyager in a battle with a Borg cube. The audience may have expected something that never ended up in the film. Considering it felt like it could have used another 20 minutes, maybe such a scene would have helped the film.

Not really a surprise that INS grossed around the same as GEN, since its aiming for that energy.

Star Trek: Nemesis

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Looking at the teaser and the trailer, I can see why from a casual audience perspective, from those that had no interest or awareness in the fanbase’s growing backlash toward B&B that was going on at the time, no one would go and see the movie.

The teaser itself felt like it was trying very hard to present NEM like its presenting an experience like The Fifth Element with the action sequences, when the actual film is nothing like that at all. The Battle in the Bassen Rift is a much slower paced battle than the Battle of Sector 001 in FC. The pacing in NEM in general is slower as well. So, more mislead theatre goers, who will the tell their friends and co-workers that the film let them down and they expected something different.

Then the trailer looks like every other late 20th and early 21st century sci-fi action flick, both in presentation and in plot, and tries to make the TNG cast look like action stars. It looks heavily inspired by The 6th Day and The One, the former a box office bomb and the latter receiving negative critical reviews. Although its all well and good if the film is exciting, no one watch Star Trek expecting to watch an action flick.

Its just reeks of fatigue and a lack of creativity.

 

[El Maestro]

A lot of that falls on Nemesis being Nemesis. Just compare the teasers and trailers for the last two TNG films. The energy between the two films are night and day.

Star Trek: Insurrection

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One thing I’ll give INS is that looking at both the teaser and the trailer, at least it looks like a cool star Trek film. The teaser does mislead viewers into thinking a bunch of Federation ships – Akira class, Steamrunner class and Saber class - are attacking the Ent-D and aiding the Son’a at 1:33,. While its not unusual for a Star trek trailer at the time; the teaser trailer for FC start with the overture from TUC and leads into the music from BoBW, and features a lot of misleading shots with the USS Pasteur exploding, the Ent-D being attacked in “Q Who”, the Battle of Wolf 359 from “Emissary” and Voyager in a battle with a Borg cube. The audience may have expected something that never ended up in the film. Considering it felt like it could have used another 20 minutes, maybe such a scene would have helped the film.

Not really a surprise that INS grossed around the same as GEN, since its aiming for that energy.

Star Trek: Nemesis

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Looking at the teaser and the trailer, I can see why from a casual audience perspective, from those that had no interest or awareness in the fanbase’s growing backlash toward B&B that was going on at the time, no one would go and see the movie.

The teaser itself felt like it was trying very hard to present NEM like its presenting an experience like The Fifth Element with the action sequences, when the actual film is nothing like that at all. The Battle in the Bassen Rift is a much slower paced battle than the Battle of Sector 001 in FC. The pacing in NEM in general is slower as well. So, more mislead theatre goers, who will the tell their friends and co-workers that the film let them down and they expected something different.

Then the trailer looks like every other late 20th and early 21st century sci-fi action flick, both in presentation and in plot, and tries to make the TNG cast look like action stars. It looks heavily inspired by The 6th Day and The One, the former a box office bomb and the latter receiving negative critical reviews. Although its all well and good if the film is exciting, no one watch Star Trek expecting to watch an action flick.

Its just reeks of fatigue and a lack of creativity.

Plus, for established fans, the word "Nemesis" connotes some kind of existing rival/known adversary; what we got was a villain—and a whole race!—that we had never, ever seen before, that had never even been HINTED at before, and we're supposed to accept that they are a "nemesis." This is only one basic thing of the very, very, many things wrong and terrible about that movie.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

So, more mislead theatre goers, who will the tell their friends and co-workers that the film let them down and they expected something different.

There were no theatre goers. For real, that weekend, everyone either saw "Maid in Manhattan" or were waiting for the following weekend to see the juggernaut "The Two Towers".

 

[fireproof78]

So then if it's reimagined... it's... not the original thing.

That's ok. Just call a spade a spade. It's almost if it's a reboot Enterprise.

No.

It's TMP Klingons or a recasting. Not a reboot.

 

[Dukhat]

And the original actor came back to play the TOS Constitution class in PIC season 3!

There were no theatre goers. For real, that weekend, everyone either saw "Maid in Manhattan" or were waiting for the following weekend to see the juggernaut "The Two Towers".

So three factors caused Nemesis to fail:

1. The timing of when the movie was produced and shown in theaters.

2. The story sucked.

3. People were just tired of seeing the TNG cast on the big screen (especially after franchise fatigue had essentially killed Trek for the foreseeable future.)

What’s interesting is that all three factors are just as relevant now as they were back then. Hollywood is in a creative glut right now film-wise, and a movie about old Picard is not the answer. Nor do I have high hopes that the story will be good based on what I saw in PIC. And nuTrek is currently experiencing a fatigue of its own with CBS/Paramount’s inability to maintain its five shows (plus even more shows they were planning on producing but never got off the ground) and the budget-slashing common to a streaming format that is not cost-effective.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

When we say "movie", though, are we talking theatrical release (which I'm betting against) or streaming like Section 31 (which to me is more probable). If it's the latter, the state of Hollywood doesn't matter as much as it will probably be budgeted accordingly and do well enough for what it's trying to do.

 

[Danja]

When we say "movie", though, are we talking theatrical release (which I'm betting against) or streaming like Section 31 (which to me is more probable). If it's the latter, the state of Hollywood doesn't matter as much as it will probably be budgeted accordingly and do well enough for what it's trying to do.

My guess would be streaming.

Paramount STILL can't get Star Trek 4 going after eight years.

 

[Omegaphallic]

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The Source for this is Patrick Stewart himself. I'm guess they will begin shooting this after Section 31 is done. Very excited.

Btw Sci Trek is a very credible source, he had The Paramount WB merger news a month before the MSM.

 

[fireproof78]

Being discussed here as well: Picard film in development | The Trek BBS

 

[Dukhat]

When we say "movie", though, are we talking theatrical release (which I'm betting against) or streaming like Section 31 (which to me is more probable). If it's the latter, the state of Hollywood doesn't matter as much as it will probably be budgeted accordingly and do well enough for what it's trying to do.

Yes, if the thing is actually made, it will most likely be just like the Section 31 movie. Someone else was debating about the viability of Stewart playing Picard again in a theatrical film, and I was debating the merits of that.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Plus, for established fans, the word "Nemesis" connotes some kind of existing rival/known adversary; what we got was a villain—and a whole race!—that we had never, ever seen before, that had never even been HINTED at before, and we're supposed to accept that they are a "nemesis." This is only one basic thing of the very, very, many things wrong and terrible about that movie.

Yes. And its not even about not choosing Sela or another Romulan. They could have gone with Bok, or Kivas Fajo or Armus or Madred. They could have even gone with revived Dukat.

A clone of Picard probably wasn't top of mind at the time. Unless that clone is turned into Locutus, or has already replaced Picard and Picard tries to figure out what happened and how.

Nor do I have high hopes that the story will be good based on what I saw in PIC.

A large reason S3 is praised is because a lot of us know this is as good as is gets under the current regime in regards to live action.

PIC S1 was a mixed bag. I mean, I liked it, but it was was universally praised.

PIC S2 was not well received.

DIS S1 was a mess, both on screen and BTS.

DIS S2 was the launching pad for SNW, but otherwise wasn’t that great of a season.

DIS S3 although an improvement over the previous seasons, was now set in what was seen as a depressing setting, plus the reveal regarding the Burn origins was underwhelming.

S4 was also well received like PIC S3, but still started with a planet being destroyed and the plot was still based around threat-of-the-season, which the audience was fatigued with.

SNW S1 and S2 has its share of classics, but is generally safe.

Live action Trek not batting 1.000. Its barely batting .500.

When we say "movie", though, are we talking theatrical release (which I'm betting against) or streaming like Section 31 (which to me is more probable). If it's the latter, the state of Hollywood doesn't matter as much as it will probably be budgeted accordingly and do well enough for what it's trying to do.

Its probably streaming. Easier to make a mid-budget movie that way, which Paramount prefers.

A theatrical release probably means a big budget behind it. Paramount is reluctant to spend that much unless its Top Gun or Mission Impossible. Sir Patrick Stewart, as big of a name he is, is not Tom Cruise.

 

[Danja]

A theatrical release probably means a big budget behind it. Paramount is reluctant to spend that much unless its Top Gun or Mission Impossible. Sir Patrick Stewart, as big of a name he is, is not Tom Cruise.

And Tommy's getting long in the tooth.

He's no longer the stud that he was back in the 1980's.

 

[Cr0sis21]

Sigh...
Can they just let it die?
I mean, Season 3 was great, but you're going to unravel all that goodwill by running back to the well yet again.
I have the same misgivings about a Legacy series. Yes, I'm excited at the idea of Captain 7, but Star Trek needs to continue moving forward. And it can't do that if we're constantly, constantly running back to characters from the old series.
TNG would have died a painful death if it had featured Captain Chekov with a young Ensign Kirk on the Enterprise B.
If we're not careful, Trek will run into the same problem Star Wars has, where everything, EVERYTHING circles back around to the Skywalkers.
The first line of that purported new movie? "Somehow, Q survived..."

 

[HotRod]

A large reason S3 is praised is because a lot of us know this is as good as is gets under the current regime in regards to live action.

I for one would love to know how you know that Season 3 of Picard is as good as it's going to get?

 

[Orphalesion]

With the luke warm viewer reaction to the first two seasons and COVID, I think any long term plan like that went out of the window

And here I seriously thought I was the only person who didn t care for PIC

 

[fireproof78]

Live action Trek not batting 1.000. Its barely batting .500.

And that's...bad?

Because previous Trek administrators definitely did not bat 1.000

I for one would love to know how you know that Season 3 of Picard is as good as it's going to get?

I'm curious too. Putting Picard and company back like action figures on a playset is the best,?

And somehow SNW is safe?

 

[Lord Garth]

I watch what I enjoy, I dip out the moment I don't. Then I go back to it when I feel like it. More people need to do this.

The batting average for Kurtzman Trek is a lot higher than for Berman Trek. The only seasons that I had issues with, beyond nitpicks, were PIC Season 2 and DSC Season 3. Even there, I wouldn't go so far as to say I dislike them. A lot of episodes of SNW got an "ehh... " from me, but I still wouldn't say they were bad. There's not a season yet between DSC, PIC, or SNW where I thought, "This is shit!"

The absolute nadir would be ENT Season 2. That's the Berman Era. I binged ENT during the Quarantine and everything I ever heard about S2 turned out to be true.