Person of Interest season 5

[Christopher]

I wonder why Samaritan has need of Finch and why Greer thinks that once he knows all, he will work for Samaritan of his own accord.

Seems clear enough to me. For one thing, Harold is the only person other than Samaritan's creator Arthur Claypool who had the genius to invent an ASI, and that makes him a valuable resource now that Arthur is dead. After all, everyone needs a doctor they can trust. For another thing, Samaritan and Greer believe they're working toward the same goal as Harold and the Machine -- to keep people safe. They just have a fundamental philosophical disagreement about whether the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

I just love how POI just chooses the right "song" to go with the episode. Today's was "The Day the World went Away"....

Which was also the episode title. I generally never pay attention to the songs -- I prefer the orchestral music -- but I noticed that lyric at the end and recognized it as the episode title.

And today's episode was a little bit of a bloodbath. Elias' death was a shocker. I did a "wait... what?! WHAT??!" and had to rewind the DVR to check it out. It's clear from a very brief moment as Elias turns back from the dead driver and looks at Harold, that he knows that this may be it. But he's still shocked (and so are we) by what happens next.

Yeah, that whole "save Elias from Samaritan" plan didn't last very long, did it? Well, I guess Elias sort of redeemed himself by going out protecting a friend rather than doing something gangstery.

Root's sacrifice was kinda telegraphed (all the way from Amy Acker's interviews about this season).

I'm a bit embarrassed that I didn't see it coming. All those retrospective speeches she was giving? It should've been obvious.

I started watching POI from it's season 2 where she is in the loony bin and seems to be hearing voices.

That was season 3. Season 1 ended with the "victim" Caroline Turing turning out to be Root (seen in one prior episode as an anonymous hacker masterminding a crime behind the scenes, not unlike The Voice) and taking Harold hostage. Season 2 opened with Root taking Harold to track down the government agents who bought the Machine, and introducing him and the viewers to the idea of the Machine being a sapient AI. Reese and Carter then tracked down Root's true identity as Samantha Groves and rescued Harold, but Root got away. She returned at the end of season 2, once again forcing Harold to come in search of the Machine and free it from the government, only to find out that the Machine had already liberated itself. This was where she got "god mode" access to the Machine for the first time. At the end of season 2, she was in the psychiatric hospital and got a call from the Machine, and we saw that it had chosen her as its "analog interface."

I wonder what the Machine will choose to call itself. I hope they do answer that. Or perhaps end on it. She will decide what her name will be...

How about Sheena?

Haroldine?

Ava?

But this means that the Machine must survive. Otherwise like Root says - everybody that died, would be dead *and* Gone. I thought that the Machine would choose to do a virtual Holmes-pulling-Moriarty-with-him-over-the-Reichenbach-falls.

And restore the pre-ASI status quo? No, I think that would do an injustice to the established theme of the show that the age of ASIs is inexorably coming and the world will be changed forever. Even if the Machine and Samaritan died, there would be other ASIs soon enough, and they might well be as heartless as Samaritan. So I think the only way the world will be safe is if we have the Machine looking out for us as a benevolent god, protecting our free will against other ASIs that would seek to take it from us.

Besides, the producers have said that

Spoiler

they intend to end the show in a way that would allow a continuation, since CBS never actually came out and officially told them they were cancelled, but they decided to end it on their own so that they wouldn't be caught off guard by a cancellation. So that probably means that at least Harold, Reese, and the Machine will survive or have ambiguous fates.

Oh, by the way, I noticed a change in the main titles -- now that Fusco's in the loop, he finally gets a yellow square and a "Primary Asset" tag in the Machine's-eye view. I guess we'll get another change in next week's titles, though. If they even use the titles. Now that we're getting into the endgame, they might skip the full title sequence from here on.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Illyria much?

 

[Aeon]

It just occurred to me that this puts a whole new spin to this season's opening. We thought that Root is talking there, but now I guess it's The Machine.

"If you can hear this, you're alone. The only thing left of us is the sound of my voice. I don't know if any of us made it. Did we win? Did we lose? I don't know. I'm not even sure I know what victory would mean anymore. Either way, it's over. So let me tell you who we were. Let me tell you who you are. And how we fought back."

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Nice catch. I completely forgot about that scene. I think it's a safe bet that is indeed the Machine talking.

 

[Christopher]

Nice catch. I completely forgot about that scene. I think it's a safe bet that is indeed the Machine talking.

Interesting. Now the other question is... to whom is she speaking?

 

[Aeon]

That is a very good question. Sounds like Team Machine is not the target audience. To Samaritan? To Greer? Those would be obvious choices.

To everyone? Hell, just had a flashback to the ending of The Lawnmower Man. Also now that I mentioned that movie, I have to say that the monologue kind of reminds me of Neo at the end of The Matrix: "A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you."

 

[Christopher]

That is a very good question. Sounds like Team Machine is not the target audience. To Samaritan? To Greer? Those would be obvious choices.

I don't think so. "Let me tell you who you are" suggests that maybe what we're seeing is the origin story for Machine, Jr. Or Samaritan, Jr.? Or maybe their joint offspring?

 

[Aragorn]

This is what is known as lip service. Warning of a spoiler you're giving away deliberately in order to get more clicks. TV Line is the worst offender (they stick the spoiler in the URL and also make sure it's the first thing you see if their story pops up in a search). This one is from Entertainment Weekly.

Spoiler: screen grab

 

[coolghoul]

Thanks Christopher for the correction of Root being in the loony bin being at the start of season 3 (rather than season 2 as I thought). Also thanks for the background. I did (since starting on POI) go back and watch the earlier seasons. So, in a way, I was spoiled when the team encounters Root for the first time. And talking about The Voice, I remember Root being a voice too in those earlier episodes. Maybe after this is all over, I'll go back and watch some of those eps.

And thanks also to Aeon for reminding about that opening dialog. I had completely forgotten about that. But of course, this is the machine talking... And maybe she's talking to the person who's the new admin. Cos I suspect Harold will either die or forget or move to Europe to be with his painter girlfriend or just choose exile (for having lost control and acting all bloodthirsty). So, somebody new will be the admin... maybe one of the team... Or maybe this is going to be The Machine 3.0 (assuming current version with the xbox engine is The Machine 2.0 which "died" fighting Samaritan).

 

[Christopher]

So, in a way, I was spoiled when the team encounters Root for the first time.

Yeah -- when I rewatched recently, I was reminded that we weren't supposed to know who Amy Acker really was at first. Although I do find it implausible that the pseudonym "Caroline Turing" didn't send up a danger flag for Harold, because surely Harold knows who Alan Turing was.

And talking about The Voice, I remember Root being a voice too in those earlier episodes. Maybe after this is all over, I'll go back and watch some of those eps.

Root was only in one epsiode, "Root Cause," before she appeared as "Caroline" in the first-season finale. And in "Root Cause," her silhouette and voice were provided by Rachel Miner rather than Acker.

 

[Aeon]

I don't think so. "Let me tell you who you are" suggests that maybe what we're seeing is the origin story for Machine, Jr. Or Samaritan, Jr.? Or maybe their joint offspring?

Now that I think of it, you might be right. Very interesting idea.

 

[Aeon]

Also I have to mention what Greer said to Finch and how that conversation reminded me of The Forbin Project, which I'm sure is one of many sources of inspiration for this show.

Greer: "Because Samaritan needs your help. Granted Samaritan knows you won't hear it's appeal in your current state. One day, the day you may not be able to see now, you will work for Samaritan of your own accord."

Colossus: "We will work together. Unwillingy at first on your part, but that will pass. In time you will come to regard me not only with respect and awe, but with love."

If you haven't seen the movie, check it out. Obviously it has aged a bit, but the core ideas still work and it is pretty chilling.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, Colossus: The Forbin Project is an interesting film -- I wouldn't call it one of the greats, but it's notable as an entry in the genre of evil-computer movies and nuclear-tension movies, a conceptual forerunner of the Terminator franchise as well as PoI. Although it's hard to track down on video -- the only copy I was able to find was a bare-bones print-on-demand DVD made from a pan-and-scanned TV edition. Anyway, it's from the same director (Joseph Sargent) as my favorite Star Trek episode, "The Corbomite Maneuver," and it has some nice directorial touches.

 

[Stephen Lee]

I was able to catch the movie on TV awhile back and enjoyed it alot. While it has aged a bit -- I had no issues with it. In this age of CGI and green-screens, just watching a movie without it is a nice change of pace. I don't know if audiences today would be accepting of how the movie ended.

 

[Aeon]

It just occurred to me that this puts a whole new spin to this season's opening. We thought that Root is talking there, but now I guess it's The Machine.

"If you can hear this, you're alone. The only thing left of us is the sound of my voice. I don't know if any of us made it. Did we win? Did we lose? I don't know. I'm not even sure I know what victory would mean anymore. Either way, it's over. So let me tell you who we were. Let me tell you who you are. And how we fought back."

Interestingly someone pointed out at the IMDB boards that the Comic-Con Sizzle Reel contains slightly different voice over.

"Hello. If you're hearing this, you're probably already dead. Did we win? Did we lose? I... I don't know. I'm not even sure I know what victory would mean anymore. We lost you. I thought we couldn't lose any more. I had no idea. But either way, you're hearing this, no one thing: it's over. So let me tell you what we did to fight back."

 

[1001001]

Root!
Elias!

I'm glad Fusco is back on board. They took too long to explain the whole thing to him, IMHO.

The machine speaking with Root's voice is perfect.

 

[Stephen Lee]

5x11 Synecdoche - This was a little hard to watch, since it required me to remember past numbers. Only remembered the girl.

 

[SAndrews10]

Had to go to IMDB to remember the other two besides her.

 

[Christopher]

5x11 Synecdoche - This was a little hard to watch, since it required me to remember past numbers. Only remembered the girl.

It helped that I binge-watched the series last month, though it took a little while for me to remember the two men.

But I'm glad to see Annie Ilonzeh back, and not just because she's hot. I'd been hoping for a followup of the indication last season that "Thornhill" had recruited her. I was hoping for more than this brief appearance, but at least we get that thread tied off. And it answers something I've always wondered about, which is what the Machine does about the irrelevant numbers that aren't in the New York metropolitan area. The idea that there's a whole franchise of these guys now is neat -- although it's the sort of thing I would've expected to be established in the final episode instead of the antepenultimate one. Hopefully they'll have a role to play in the concluding events, though I didn't get that impression here.

Overall, I'm afraid I found this episode kind of a mess, though. We already had a pro-privacy terrorist group two seasons ago, Vigilance, and it was just a front for Decima. And the idea that people would try to assassinate the President as a protest of surveillance and privacy invasion seems a bit disconnected. Not to mention, what's with the President being an old white guy? According to IMDb, episode 15 of season 1 featured archival footage of President Obama. Although that was in February 2012, so I guess this show could be in an alternate universe where President Obama didn't get a second term. Still, the show has always tried to feel pretty close to reality up to now.

I'm also confused by the Machine's dialogue with Harold, complaining about how he shackled her and limited her ability to help people. We just saw over the past few weeks that even when she was an open system, she still limited the information she shared with the team because she prioritized human free will above everything else. So she restrained herself from intervening more than she needed to. So I don't see how her attitude here makes sense. Although the rest of the conversation was interesting. The bit about how she had to live through Root's death thousands of times while trying to stop it, and thus grieves more deeply than we can imagine, was particularly poignant. (Although I suppose Sameen can imagine it, having lived through her friends' simulated deaths a comparable number of times. Or at least she could if she weren't a sociopath.)

 

[Aragorn]

James Carpinello, who played Joey, is also Amy Acker's husband.