Original series warp 10 Vs Voyager warp 10

[Mytran]

In itself, posting warp 10 as an insurmountable barrier, to establish the feeling 'warp technology as we know it cannot be enhanced indefinitely without some fundamental breakthrougs, and we're already starting to straddle up against its upper barriers, as we find it harder and harder to reach ever higher speeds' wasn't bad in itself for the TNG universe. They hadn't considered the writer's need to continually 'up' specs of new ships to make it sound 'even awesomer!' though. Going from 'we may be able to match hostile's warp 9.8... but at extreme risk' to 'maximum sustainable cruising speed of warp 9.975' in a mere 7 years sounded slightly ridiculous to me.

It happened in TOS as well - in Season One's Arena Warp 6 was standard cruising speed, Warp 7 for pursuit and Warp 8 was extremely dangerous. By Season Three they were flying around at Warp 9 whenever the story required it and even hitting Warp 14 in one story!

 

[Timo]

The end result of that being a rather intriguing piece of scifi, fully consummated in "Threshold": warp is a technology that provides infinite speed at finite expenditure of energy, and it's just a matter of rather steeply increasing risk - a choice between most of your ships surviving a career at warp six, half of them completing their missions at warp nine, and perhaps two living through a stint at warp 47.

These year-long shakedowns make quite a bit of sense, then: there's fairly little telling in advance whether this new type of ship will be capable of 4,000% or 120,000% warp performance in practice, so pushing the first ones through a few risky adventures may bring great dividends.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Phoenix219]

Original Cochrane Unit versus Modified Cochrane Unit (perhaps after the Excelsior's first transwarp drive)

Yeah, I always assumed the numbering was reset / simplified / reduced after the Excelsior 's new engines became standard, and the "trans' moniker was eventually dropped, much like "time warp" fell out of favor.

 

[Phoenix219]

We know "Threshold" wasn't an isolated incident, as per Lower Decks. And that Paris is known for his salamander transformation

I know theyve made jokes about it, but what did they say about it not being an isolated incident?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I know theyve made jokes about it, but what did they say about it not being an isolated incident?

We meet Anthony, another human-turned-salamander in "Much Ado About Boimler"

 

[Phoenix219]

The last one I saw was the one with the pakled spy. I'm a bit behind. Maybe I've missed that one? Lol.

 

[Timo]

It's a first-season one, and they don't explicitly mention infinite speed or transwarp, but still...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tim Thomason]

It's a first-season one, and they don't explicitly mention infinite speed or transwarp, but still...

Timo Saloniemi

They don't reference how "Anthony" became a celerity-induced accelerated somatic mutation. Given the events of Threshold, the mutation *is* the final fate of all human evolution (because that's how all evolution works in Star Trek Land. No roaming about, just predestination determined on a microbic scale with little variety permitted). So, Parisian transwarp might just be one key of many to unlock this encoded mutation.

As I said over a year ago:

Technically, the hyper-evolved humans aren't a result of some Warp 10/transwarp radiation. They are legitimate fate of mankind hard-coded into our DNA (what the hell, Salome Jens?!). So Anthony could be anything from a transporter accident to a viral mutation to a weaponized biogenic victim. Just whatever unlocks the same rapid evolution that Janeway and Paris went through. Unlike the transwarp method, the method used upon Anthony might not be (easily) reversible.

 

[NCC-73515]

We meet Anthony, another human-turned-salamander in "Much Ado About Boimler"

Could be one of the babies they left behind

celerity-induced accelerated somatic mutation.

That's actually from a fake paper someone submitted to a predatory journal XD

 

[yotsuya]

I think there is a bit of science behind it. The original warp scale was put out there to establish some context for the numbers. I don't know that much though was given to it or much math. Other than the voyage to Andromeda which mathematically works out about right, a lot of the warp speeds and how far they travel is more random and story driven than science. TNG made the scale about power consumption and set an unattainable max. The power curve up to nine was reasonable but from 9 to 10 took it to infinity. There are graphable equations that fit that.

What is funny that Dune, Foundation, and a number of other SF franchises have already mastered warp 10. They instantaneously move from one place to another. Star Trek has always been slower. So has Star Wars and Babylon 5.

 

[urrutiap]

the whole warp speed thing in any Star Trek show its a bit messed up and flawed.

Warp 1 to 4 in old Star Trek is considered really really slow.

Then in Next Generation, even with up to Warp 9, in one episode where Picard was supposed to stop some kind of terrorist group where Jame Cromewell was the leader of an alien race, Warp 9 for Picard it took him like what, a week or 2 weeks just to get to that one planet?

 

[STEPhon IT]

Probably depends on the distance where the ship was going from and to. No reason to trivialize warp speed since the audience should know its a plot device.

 

[at Quark's]

I think the 24th century 'warp plot device meaning' chart goes something like this ...

Warp 1-4 = The domain of leisure cruising, shuttles/runabouts, and very badly damaged ships limping away
Warp 5-6 = Bulk transport
Warp 7= Cruising speed for most standard 'business' stuff
Warp 8= Kind of pursuit speed ... but we don't actually want to catch them just yet, after all there's still 28 minutes of episode to fill. Give them a chance to escape!
Warp 9 and over = Full pursuit / hurry mode

 

[urrutiap]

you call Warp 9 as hurry it up mode? Then explain the long 2 weeks or whatever drive just to get to a planet to stop its terrorist group blah blah

 

[JesterFace]

Might it be a good idea to skip going too much into details about warp speeds and such if it hurts the story.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Alternatively...

TOS Organ Theft vs "Voyager" Organ Theft: why does lungless-Neelix need holographic lungs just to breath, but brainless-Spock doesn't need a holographic brain to walk?

"Enterprise" Religious Tolerance vs. DS9 Religious Tolerance: Why can't Captain Sisko threaten to urinate on the Bajorans' sacred orbs, without the risk of losing his position?

TNG Energy Ghosts vs. "Voyager" Energy Ghosts: when Kes became a non-corporal energy being, why could't she and Neelix still have continued dating, like Beverly and her ghost-buddy?

DS9 Games vs. TOS Games: why didn't Fizzbin require Kirk and Spock to sing an embarrassing nursery rhyme while playing hopscotch?

Just accept the fact that each "Star Trek" series is entitled to a hilariously bad episode, and that part of the badness is the disregard for making anything resembling sense.

 

[Phoenix219]

I figure the remote control McCoy was using was sending movement signals directly into Spock's body in place of the brain doing it. Still sparking the right impulses and whatnot. Had to keep the body alive and pumping somehow.

 

[Timo]

you call Warp 9 as hurry it up mode? Then explain the long 2 weeks or whatever drive just to get to a planet to stop its terrorist group blah blah

Umm, what are you talking about? The episode with Cromwell is "The Hunted", and there is no two-week warp flight at any speed. The heroes just sit there on orbit above the planet and first have their asses handed to them by the seeming bad guy, then let that guy give comeuppance to Cromwell.

Another "terrorist" episode is the very next one, "High Ground", where the pseudo-IRA guy kidnaps Crusher. No warp travel there, either.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Timo]

I figure the remote control McCoy was using was sending movement signals directly into Spock's body in place of the brain doing it. Still sparking the right impulses and whatnot. Had to keep the body alive and pumping somehow.

I doubt McCoy needed to do much: Spock had survived the initial removal operation, which was accomplished by alien means. And the alien intellect doing it was pretty smart. Just leave the cerebellum be, rewire what else remained of Spock's neural system, and everything could work just fine, on "idle", only without the motivating element from the removed brain bits. People survive in vegetative state basically that way ITRW, too.

As for Sisko "retaining his position", well, he was already a religious leader. That one won't be toppled no matter how he chooses to lead!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[NCC-73515]

TOS Organ Theft vs "Voyager" Organ Theft: why does lungless-Neelix need holographic lungs just to breath, but brainless-Spock doesn't need a holographic brain to walk?

"Enterprise" Religious Tolerance vs. DS9 Religious Tolerance: Why can't Captain Sisko threaten to urinate on the Bajorans' sacred orbs, without the risk of losing his position?

TNG Energy Ghosts vs. "Voyager" Energy Ghosts: when Kes became a non-corporal energy being, why could't she and Neelix still have continued dating, like Beverly and her ghost-buddy?

DS9 Games vs. TOS Games: why didn't Fizzbin require Kirk and Spock to sing an embarrassing nursery rhyme while playing hopscotch?

Can't breathe without lungs, but muscles work without brains.

Did Archer threaten to do that? They didn't even have the PD yet, no Federation, so the rules were different 200 years later.

They could've, but they broke up before.

Because Kirk and Spock already had to play horse and tap-dance-next-to-my-head in another episode XD