Well, "IF" Picard did that, then that would make him a scum bucket in my book (the world according to The Middleman)
Opinions about Trip and T'Pol
- Thread starter commodore64
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That happened in the alternate timeline, in which Deanna Troi is dead, Worf and Admiral Riker hate each other (the love triangle)...
Picard could never be slimy.
Alternative plotline on show. In novels, they are happily married and expecting their first baby
From the novels' perspective, they hadn't actually resolved their relationship when they got blind-sided by the death of their child. The reworking of the shuttle scene is primarily what seems a dream sequence - disjointed and odd as most dreams are (especially when she peels off his green, Vulcan skin to find Trip underneath), but then becomes apparent as a bond connection while T'Pol is sleeping. It is the turning point in T'pol's conviction that Trip is alive. Since the novels take the POV that the sexual relationship ended with T'Pol's marriage, a year could seem a long time to Trip. I know a lot of guys who think anything over a week is an eternity.
Penguin, I don' t understand what you mean by that.
In Demons T'Pol says that the minute Phlox told her there was a child of hers & Trip's out tere she knew it was true. So apparently the parent/child bond was there.
In Terra Prime Trip says he's getting "sick and tired of this bond," and then proceeds to tell T'Pol, "Look, if you get any more of these feelings....." and then he's distracted and doesn't finish. Apprently T'Po'ls getting a lot of messages from Trip that are upsetting her, including that he doesn't trust that she never was pregnant, or maybe even more accurately, that he just can't figure out ow there's a baby of theirs out there. I can imagine that things were getting on Trip's nerves, especially as a human it would be very uncomfortable. I THINK what he was about to say if he had continued was something like, "they're wrong," or "I'm just confused."
Unless they are separated or under duress, I don't think they could use the Bond like a cell phone, no. More like what T'Pol said in Bound, that it's images, feelings, etc.
I think the way Trip's death in TATV or, as I prefer to call it, "the abomination" was awful. Trip would know better than to kill himself that way. As Connor Trineer said in an interview, "Trip had gotten himself out of way worse things before." I agree. He knew every conduit and wire in the ship and could have MacGuivered something better, no doubt. And as far as the rest of the crews reation to his death (especially Archer and T'Pol) that was very unrealistic. Trip was was the heart and sould of that ship, a big brother to them all, they would have been devastated to loose him!
I read a quote from Manny Coto that said that if the show would have been renewed they would have kept T&T together. I wishe we could have seen that!
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You are right, when you read the shuttle pod scene, it does become clear that T'Pol is lamenting. When T'Pol says: "I haven't thought about those days in a long time." and Trip replies: " Benefit of being a Vulcan." Does that mean that he has been thinking back to those days? Maybe he wasn't as detached as he seemed?
alkiweezie, T-Pol says she knows there is a baby out there because she is Vulcan. that doesn't impy the bond. How can she have a Bond with a child she has never seen or did not even know of it's existence until a few short hours before her conversation with Trip.
As far as downgrading and elimiating the bond the writers started it off with that scene between Trip and T-Pol in her white room and he was on the columbia. In that scene the bond ws very powerful. Had to be to connect their minds over that distance, however long it was.
In Demoons and terra Prime it doesn't seem to exist because trip would have been able to Sense t-Pol's thoughts when Phlox said the Baby was thiers. She would have been thinking that she had never been Pregnant and he would have sensed that.
He also complains that he is Sick of the bond meaning that he would just as soon be rid of it. Writers downplaying the bond and setting up an excuse for ending it if there were later episodes.
As far as downgrading and elimiating the bond the writers started it off with that scene between Trip and T-Pol in her white room and he was on the columbia. In that scene the bond ws very powerful. Had to be to connect their minds over that distance, however long it was.
In Demoons and terra Prime it doesn't seem to exist because trip would have been able to Sense t-Pol's thoughts when Phlox said the Baby was thiers. She would have been thinking that she had never been Pregnant and he would have sensed that.
He also complains that he is Sick of the bond meaning that he would just as soon be rid of it. Writers downplaying the bond and setting up an excuse for ending it if there were later episodes.
Norrin Radd
Vice Admiral
Trip/T'Pol lacked the "forbidden passion" I saw in the new movie.
That was the big problem for me.
This is why we needed Archer/T'Pol...the feeling that "this is wrong, but we're so crazy about each other, we're doing it anyway."
That was the big problem for me.
This is why we needed Archer/T'Pol...the feeling that "this is wrong, but we're so crazy about each other, we're doing it anyway."
Here is the complete scene above. How would you interpret her last two lines?
I think that the writers were trying to show a frustration on Trip's part and he was wrongly taking it out on T'Pol in a hot headed fashion. I got the impression he didn't mean it and was going to say it before they found the door. This scene was very poorly written at best and contradicts the highly emotional final scene in Terra Prime. It made no sense to me that they used two different writing teams for Demons and Terra Prime when it was actually one story.
I think the reason that they were both able to enter the white room was BECAUSE they were separated. It's a way for bondmates to communicate when they are apart.
I do NOT think Trip would be able to read T'Pol's thoughts or sense much from her at all at this point in their relationshsip - for a lot of reasons. He's human, it's alll new to him, he has almost NO control over it, not to mention that his mind is a muddled emotional mess over the whole idea of this baby. I think it's pretty much one way.
I wish we knew what happened between them between "Bound" and "Demons." They had three weeks (according to Startrek.com 12/27 - 1/19) to start figuring out what they are going to do. That's not a LOT of time but enough to figure out if they are to remain a couple.
We assume that's what they decided. That's what I think they decided.
I MAY agree with you about his comment about being sick of the bond. I didn't like that line at all, and it may have been put in there to set up a conflict in the future. But as far as I know the series was not cancelled at the time and according to Coto they did not intend to break them up again. I guess I can understand him saying that, though. It would drive me nuts if ***GOD FORBID** my husband could read my thoughts or sense my moods through a bond
.
No so much "wrong" as, I don't know... distasteful?
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This implication that Archer would stealthily connive to keep his interest in T'Pol hidden away, and wait until his not-really best friend was "out of the way," then immediately "go after" T'Pol, as if she were some vulnerable, unsuspecting little thing...? Out of character much?
Archer's strong moral code was established and reinforced throughout the run of the series, from what I saw. As was his friendship with Trip.
Pluswhich, did it occur to anyone that, if Archer and T'Pol got together at some point after TATV, that T'Pol would have had some say about it? She didn't come off to me as a shrinking violet.
Setting aside this "divorce = slimy" presumption... Check your sources and context before besmirching Picard's morality. The Picard I watched for 7 years and however many movies was a man of honor. Even when Beverly realized he was in love with her, he didn't force the issue. (Which made TNG an ongoing frustration for me, but I digress.
) Thank goodness the books fixed all that.Why not? She's Vulcan. She's telepathic. Her baby would be half-Vulcan. A mother-child bond would seem to be a natural.
Here on Earth, right now, mothers often talk of the "mother-sense" bond they have with their children. Hell, I have bonds with my cats, and the dog can practically read my husband's mind, they're so bonded. And none of us has the advantage of being Vulcan.
Not necessarily. Nothing on these episodes implied that Trip was given the same sort of telepathic "bond-sense" that a Vulcan would have once he and T'Pol became bonded.
In your opinion. I can think of 20 other things it could mean. The most likely for me: he's frustrated by the whole deal. I mean, they were bonded and still miscommunicating! And how would it feel for a human to have someone else tromping around in his head? It might be unreasonable to assume he'd acclimate quickly or easily.
When the subject was brought up that the ending of TATV implied Archer and T'Pol getting together (something that I didn't see at all in the episode and IMO would be an incredible stretch to derive), I brought up the idea that "a stand-up guy" would never go after his best friend's girl or "ex", particularly after his best friend just died for him. I personally think it's a low thing to do and something I would not expect of Archer. T'Pol being the initiator never entered my mind mostly because:
1. I was looking at it from a guy's perspective
2. It just wasn't there on-screen
Moot point anyway, the re-launch books cleared it all up.
Thankfully, we weren't subjected to it.
HopefulRomantic, I also said that she did not know that the child existed until afew hours previously.
She never had seen the child, touched it, had no way of knowing it's whereabouts. How would she establish a bond link with it.
A mother can establish a Bond with her child because she holds it, feeds it, cares for it also had bore it. t-Pol had done none of those things.
Just MHO
She never had seen the child, touched it, had no way of knowing it's whereabouts. How would she establish a bond link with it.
A mother can establish a Bond with her child because she holds it, feeds it, cares for it also had bore it. t-Pol had done none of those things.
Just MHO
Definately agree with you there Hopeful that Trip is frustrated, not that he wants to get rid of the bond.
3 weeks is hardly time to get used to something this big.
Also we know Trip was getting used to the idea of the baby - his talk with Phlox about what she might look like, tells us he has been thinking about her, starting to connect to the idea of her being his child. The idea of her being in danger and he not being able to find her or help her must be very frustrating to him. Equally also with T'Pol being able to read his mind and sense his thoughts.
Penguin, I've had four kids and I can definately tell you, a bond develops between you (a mother) and her child, way before its been born.
There is definately a connection there while you are carrying your unborn child. I've had numerous miscarriages and lost a baby when she was born, and I felt equally connected to these children as I did with my four surviving children, during pregnancy and throughout their childhood.
Then what did she MEAN by saying that she knew what Phlox said was true about the baby?
She DID say," I'm a Vulcan," and that's how she knew. Knew WHAT! HOW? There must be some kind of telepathic SOMETHING......BTW, my son's adopted - got him when he was 5 days old, found out of his existence when he was 4 days old (yes, we had 24 hours notice that we were going to be parents
Maybe that's why I sympathize with T &T a bit on this) He wasn't "My baby" until they brought him to me, though - but from that moment on he was.Oh, and Archer and T'Pol after Trip' "Death." No WAY!!!!
Just out of curiosity, from a woman's POV, why not?
I think T'Pol shot Archer down in "A Night in Sickbay!" I watches it a few days ago, and even though it's kind of a crappy episode, I have to admit it made me laugh a few times especially when Archer has Freudian Slips (breast & lips to be exact). Later on when Archer says something to T'Pol about there being sexual tension between them she says something like "Well then it's a good thing a relationship between us is inapporriate, or off-limits off something like that." I don't think she had ANY feelings other than loyalty & respect toward Archer. Lustful from him towards her yes, but her to him - no way.
And T'Pol & Trip are bondmates and he didn't die.
Hosis Sis, you confirm my point of a mother who bears a child and raises it does form a bond with it.
I always thought that.
I am sorry to hear of your losses.
My daughter has suffered the same things plus having two children with severe handicaps.
I am not sure if It was established in the series that t-Pol was telepathic. I know that is some Fanfics she is touch telepathic.
but the way she said Because I am vulcan seemed to me she ws saying just the fact that she ws Vulcan born she knew this. Perhaps she was referring to telepathy.
I always thought that.
I am sorry to hear of your losses.
My daughter has suffered the same things plus having two children with severe handicaps.
I am not sure if It was established in the series that t-Pol was telepathic. I know that is some Fanfics she is touch telepathic.
but the way she said Because I am vulcan seemed to me she ws saying just the fact that she ws Vulcan born she knew this. Perhaps she was referring to telepathy.
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