Hell no! I am (was) more of a fan of the romance's potential rather than the story we got. But in fairness, not all of it was bad.
Opinions about Trip and T'Pol
- Thread starter commodore64
- Start date
No, I am not satisfied. The writers played us. Harbinger and that Morning after scene.
Home, the start seemed to indicate that T-Pol was taking Trip home to meet Mother and have her give him the once over, hopefully approving of him. If she did then t-Pol could reveal her feelings for trip.
bound, ending T-Pol shows that she wants Trip but the writers have him stiff arm her. why, he should have been dancing that she finally admitted that she cared deeply for him.
Terra Prime last chance and it draws back at the end hintng but that is all.
There is more in earlier episodes but those were the main ones as far as I am concerned.
I hate that kind of angst because it is so false and manufacured. Not natural.
A smooth story line would have been far better It may be trite but boy meets girl, girl and boy fall in love, girl and boy live happily ever after. Better than being jerked around continually.
Home, the start seemed to indicate that T-Pol was taking Trip home to meet Mother and have her give him the once over, hopefully approving of him. If she did then t-Pol could reveal her feelings for trip.
bound, ending T-Pol shows that she wants Trip but the writers have him stiff arm her. why, he should have been dancing that she finally admitted that she cared deeply for him.
Terra Prime last chance and it draws back at the end hintng but that is all.
There is more in earlier episodes but those were the main ones as far as I am concerned.
I hate that kind of angst because it is so false and manufacured. Not natural.
A smooth story line would have been far better It may be trite but boy meets girl, girl and boy fall in love, girl and boy live happily ever after. Better than being jerked around continually.
I totally agree with you - it was BOTCHED.
And what the HECK did Trip mean by "This thing between us...it's not such a big deal." YES IT IS! It's a H U G E Deal. I never could figure that out. What WAS he talking about?
Good ideas, commie.
Given the pressures of a weekly TV schedule and the necessity of cranking out scripts under a perpetual deadline, and being a series that struggled to find its footing and identity, went through a lot of writer turnover, and was forced to do a lot of dancing just to survive from season to season...yes. Very hard to dot every I and cross every T. Especially when the fanbase is polarized about what the show should/should not do with its characters.
If the show had gone seven seasons, and if the staff had known they wouldn't be axed, I'm pretty sure they would have had more time and energy to plan out long-term character arcs and nurture them. Sure, they could have done a better job. But you can say that about practically every TV series that ever aired. Including all the big-viewing-audience, critically lauded Emmy winners.
It has been speculated that Trip was talking about the bond, which both of them had looked a little rattled about earlier, or the romantic relationship (and whatever difficulties that might entail). And Trip was making light as a way of reassuring T'Pol not to stress over it. After he said it, she did seem to relax a bit and look more comfortable with the whole idea.
And sure, it's a huge deal. But that was left in subtext...which can speak more loudly than dialogue, in some cases. I thought it was a nice touch that in the next episode they were adjusting rather rockily to being in each other's heads (i.e., it is a huge deal, and will take getting used to).
OMG, I think I understand or maybe we've reached understanding? Thanks for your honesty.
I think this is why I'm happy about just a friendship between Archer and T'Pol. I feel like they had a better relationship for it.
What they all have in common is they stuck with a plan. And more importantly -- they had one. Because they writers had plans, the relationships they introduced didn't feel forced, rushed, confusing, etc. Instead, despite myself, I rooted for them.
Then there are shows like X-Files. Chris Carter swears that he never intended a romantic relationship. (I think he was smart enough to know that men and women working together and caring about each other are enough.) Yet, he focused on people who just cared. By focusing on caring and not a relationship, I think he promoted one.
So, in summation, it's not necessarily Trip/T'Pol I hate, but the canon they've been given as a couple. Make sense?
I think this is why I'm happy about just a friendship between Archer and T'Pol. I feel like they had a better relationship for it.
That's certainly the way I took it. The end.
You know, I've seen other shows do as much, even those that feared cancellation. Farscape didn't have guarantees. Neither did Babylon 5, in fact the main character got replaced in the second season. Firefly, well, we know its fate.
What they all have in common is they stuck with a plan. And more importantly -- they had one. Because they writers had plans, the relationships they introduced didn't feel forced, rushed, confusing, etc. Instead, despite myself, I rooted for them.
Then there are shows like X-Files. Chris Carter swears that he never intended a romantic relationship. (I think he was smart enough to know that men and women working together and caring about each other are enough.) Yet, he focused on people who just cared. By focusing on caring and not a relationship, I think he promoted one.
So, in summation, it's not necessarily Trip/T'Pol I hate, but the canon they've been given as a couple. Make sense?
I meant the end of the "real deal" in terms of "writing romance," the end of "good stuff," not the end of TnT.
Imagine if Farscape got canceled after season 3, and season 4 (and PK wars) never happened. Would you still like John & Aeryn the same?
[EDIT] On second thought, it would have lacked closure, but all the best J&A stuff happens in S3 anyway.
I don't think he focused on people who just cared at all. I think Carter gust gave in to studio pressure. There were too many shippers out there, and the studio just wanted to shape the product by the market's demands, so to speak. To me, Mulder and Scully had a great thing going before the romance, and they represented the proof that men and women indeed can be friends. By the time those two hooked up, I stopped caring about the show anyway.
Are you saying that, basically, you don't hate the ship itself, but the buzz surrounding it?
Worf/Troi was lame because it came out of nowhere. Riker & Troi were always sorta destined to end up together, and I guess that's what made them a boring couple.
In the end, I couldn't care less if they got married or not. Actually, I think that was because of Troi, she was a dull character. Its different with TnT, they're both interesting. Worf and Jadzia were OK because they were funny at times, but was there ever any real chemistry? Meh... The only Trek couple that I actually gave a damn about was Torres/Paris. I also wanted to see Harry Kim with Seven of Nine, but TPTB decided to stomp on the underdog and go with the macho first officer instead.
Last edited:
Mach5, Paris/Torres, Trip/T-Pol
What attracted me to both couples is that the females were alien. torres of course was half Human but her Klingon side was not submerged. I think that was what attracted Paris too.
The problems both pairs would have to deal with. Of course Paris/Torres were on a shhip marooned in the Delta quadrant so the dynamics would have been different. Trip /tpol would be subject to a greater Opposition of thier paring because they would be on a ship, Earth and possibly vulcan.
Problems with having a child and then problems with the child being accepted.
Where would Trip/t-Pol live safely? Paris/Torres would not have that problem.
Anyway, if the writers would have explored that. Made Trip/Tpol a romanttic cuple even to them getting married It could have been in a "B" Thread that occured evey so often so as not to intefere iwth the action "A" thread.
I don't care for angst fopr angst sake. this would not be angst but real problems presented ina more realistic way.
What attracted me to both couples is that the females were alien. torres of course was half Human but her Klingon side was not submerged. I think that was what attracted Paris too.
The problems both pairs would have to deal with. Of course Paris/Torres were on a shhip marooned in the Delta quadrant so the dynamics would have been different. Trip /tpol would be subject to a greater Opposition of thier paring because they would be on a ship, Earth and possibly vulcan.
Problems with having a child and then problems with the child being accepted.
Where would Trip/t-Pol live safely? Paris/Torres would not have that problem.
Anyway, if the writers would have explored that. Made Trip/Tpol a romanttic cuple even to them getting married It could have been in a "B" Thread that occured evey so often so as not to intefere iwth the action "A" thread.
I don't care for angst fopr angst sake. this would not be angst but real problems presented ina more realistic way.
Mach5, no not the buzz around it -- what the writers gave us on-screen; I hated what the writers gave us on-screen and can't really look past that. I think Trip/T'Pol could've had potential, but were not written in that manner from pretty much the first episode.
But let's really compare it to Farscape; they had pretty much equal time to establish a relationship. Farscape did so well. They had a plan and they treated the characters with respect and dignity, havng them care about each other while fulfilling the larger plotline. Enterprise did not have a plan and ... well, you know the rest.
I thought Jadzia/Worf was fine. Most of the Star Trek relationships were not great, but didn't annoy me. Trip/T'Pol annoyed me because of what I saw as incredibly bad writing and lack of respect for the characters. To me, the characters devolved to make the relationship work out as written on screen.
Yes, I would still like John/Aeryn. They were written well and as a believable couple from the -- to me -- the first episode. I saw it going somewhere. I saw it was more than just attraction and that they could learn from each other. And they did.
But let's really compare it to Farscape; they had pretty much equal time to establish a relationship. Farscape did so well. They had a plan and they treated the characters with respect and dignity, havng them care about each other while fulfilling the larger plotline. Enterprise did not have a plan and ... well, you know the rest.
I thought Jadzia/Worf was fine. Most of the Star Trek relationships were not great, but didn't annoy me. Trip/T'Pol annoyed me because of what I saw as incredibly bad writing and lack of respect for the characters. To me, the characters devolved to make the relationship work out as written on screen.
The bond wasn't "dropped" after being mentioned in Bound.
The next two episodes after Bound were IaMD I and II, which were Mirror Universe episodes in which the bond (or an evil version of the bond) may, or may not, have existed, considering T/T's intimate relationship in that world as well. The episode following IaMD II was Demons in which we saw that the bond was intact.
It only created "confusion" for some. Far be it from me to attempt to explain the writing in TaTV but, T'Pol very solemnly and with obvious emotion, evidenced by her sniffing Trip's clothing to get his scent, showed her feelings for Trip rather well I thought. The problem was the other character's reactions to Trip's apparent "death".
My feeling about the romance is this; they picked the right characters for the romance, and I enjoyed a lot of the way it was written. My only real regret is that there wasn't a season 5 in which Manny could have continued his exploration of the romance. We'll just have to be satisfied with the novels.
Commodore, I am repeating myself here.
Trip and t-Pol DID have a powerful bond.
That was sh9own in the episode where Trip was on Columbia in Earth Orbit and T-Pol ws on Entrprise somewhere in Space. How far I am nnot sure but even a light day would have been a considerable distance.
Trip appears in T-Pol's White room which is in her mind so thier Minds were linked by the bond.
They speak while Trip is in the white room. Again through the bond.
The only reason they stop is because Trip is interrupted and that breaks the connection.
HOw powerful a bond is needed?
The Writers did not develope th bond in fact downgraded it and tried to eliminate it in Demons and Terra Prime.
But the bond was introduced before bound and it was Powerful in that introduction.
Done roperly the bond could have played an important part in the action thread and the romantic thread.
Trip and t-Pol DID have a powerful bond.
That was sh9own in the episode where Trip was on Columbia in Earth Orbit and T-Pol ws on Entrprise somewhere in Space. How far I am nnot sure but even a light day would have been a considerable distance.
Trip appears in T-Pol's White room which is in her mind so thier Minds were linked by the bond.
They speak while Trip is in the white room. Again through the bond.
The only reason they stop is because Trip is interrupted and that breaks the connection.
HOw powerful a bond is needed?
The Writers did not develope th bond in fact downgraded it and tried to eliminate it in Demons and Terra Prime.
But the bond was introduced before bound and it was Powerful in that introduction.
Done roperly the bond could have played an important part in the action thread and the romantic thread.
Penguin:
I don't know if you read the re-launch novels but the bond is an important part of both stories.
Middlelman, I have read two re-Launch books TGTMD and Maru. I have also read a number of Fanfics that feature the Bond.
Still, I am referring to what was seen in the series. The bond and a powerful one, was introduced before bound.
It was a constant irritation that the writers failed to follow up on tihngs they introduced in the series time after time.
NOt being able to predict future events I don't know what season five and other Seasons would hve done with the bond.
But aftter readng the books and the Fanfics the writers of the series certianly missed the boat.
Still, I am referring to what was seen in the series. The bond and a powerful one, was introduced before bound.
It was a constant irritation that the writers failed to follow up on tihngs they introduced in the series time after time.
NOt being able to predict future events I don't know what season five and other Seasons would hve done with the bond.
But aftter readng the books and the Fanfics the writers of the series certianly missed the boat.
On T'Pol. Absolutely. No denying that. I'm sure that T'Pol had a mix of what might have been, what she or he had that she broke off (and why) and also some friendship in there.It only created "confusion" for some. Far be it from me to attempt to explain the writing in TaTV but, T'Pol very solemnly and with obvious emotion, evidenced by her sniffing Trip's clothing to get his scent, showed her feelings for Trip rather well I thought. The problem was the other character's reactions to Trip's apparent "death".
On TATV and wishing the other characters gnashed their teeth more. I thought the other characters cared. They all shared what they thought of him with Chef. I think it would've been stupid for people to cry in the hallways that Trip bit the dust. And I liked that they didn't. After all, the episode wasn't about Trip dying.
I disagree obviously with almost everything else in your post, but figured we're/I'm beating a dead horse on those things. Suffice it to say: I disagree.
See, I guess that's beem my argument all along.
Actually, it was. That's the whole problem. The episode was about Riker and his dilemma, and seeing Trip's sacrifice helped him decide to tell Picard about that cloaking device aboard Pegasus. The man had to witness a ridiculously simulated suicide in order to make a career/life-changing decision...
If that's not worthy of a facepalm, I don't know what is.
I agree that the bond was a very interesting concept that the writers introduced us too. It is a shame that they brought it up so late in the season and it wasn't leveraged as parts of the story lines beyond "Bound"
Agreed. It was a 4 year long problem, not just an issue with the Bond.
I really thought that the writers of the re-launch books got the bond right. It played a big part in TGTMD where T'Pol could feel that Trip was not dead and refused to believe either Archer or Phlox. In KM, T'Pol could fell through the bond that Trip's life was in danger and went with Reed to rescue him (as well as to take the opportunity to consummate their romance once again). As far as the fan fic writers go, they were all over the place on the bond. I didn't like that some of them were using the bond like a "short wave radio" or a cell phone.
Middleman, you are right that the writers of Fanfics were all over the place with the bond.
There seemed to be consensus that the Bond joined TnT at the hip.
Actually thinking about the possibllilties of the bond is fun.
One writer suggested that Trip and t-Pol could feel the others sensations during Sex. Man that would be something.
I liked the idea that they could cmmunicate through the Bond. also liked the idea that each knew where the other was if the other was in danger or hurt.
For me I really don;t think the bond wold be an invasion f privacy as both cold raise barriers to the other acessing thier thought if they wished.
There seemed to be consensus that the Bond joined TnT at the hip.
Actually thinking about the possibllilties of the bond is fun.
One writer suggested that Trip and t-Pol could feel the others sensations during Sex. Man that would be something.
I liked the idea that they could cmmunicate through the Bond. also liked the idea that each knew where the other was if the other was in danger or hurt.
For me I really don;t think the bond wold be an invasion f privacy as both cold raise barriers to the other acessing thier thought if they wished.
No. It was about the choices he made and how he lived his life. Trip, to me, only acted bizarre when it came down to the actual act of him sacrificing himself. I'm sorry to say I chalk that up to acting. I think the script on it wasn't that hot, but think the choices the actor made created a worse situation. Other than that, I bought everything else. Do I believe he would? Yes. Do I believe he would be able to take out some baddies in the process? Yes. Do I believe Trip nearly bought the farm on a mission and Archer saved his life? Yes. Do I believe people talked with a chef about Trip? Sure. Do I think T'Pol really smelled Trip's clothes? Yeah. You bet.
It's why no one showed a grave of Trip, saw a funeral, had a minister read over an open coffin .... It's not about Trip's death, it's about the choices he made to help sustain life -- Archer's. It's why the ending is with Archer speaking in front of a bunch of folks about the Federation (one thinks is the beginning), and Archer has a few nice moments with T'Pol. All about the future -- where we, the audience, know the story goes based on the Trek mythos. It's why we don't have to see/hear the speech. That's the Valentine. I got it. I liked it.
Agreed! And if you think about it, the re-launch books exploited that.
Similar threads
- Poll
