Spoilers On Seven and sexuality

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by rfmcdpei, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. EnderAKH

    EnderAKH Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    You are hereby disinvited to my When Harry Met Sally watch party. :wah:
     
  2. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Commodore Commodore

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    what is real life if not a very boring form of media?
     
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  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I didn't know how much this could hurt until it was my turn...

    :(
    Which is why I don't want romance in media. I don't need reminders of that in media. Romance in media is not more exciting.
     
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  4. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Commodore Commodore

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    Again, I see no difference to real life
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Real life is more dynamic. Give me that over media which feels stilted, forced and unnecessary.
     
  6. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Commodore Commodore

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    idk, I get the sense the writers room of real life is often very uninspired and repetitive. there are a lot less twists and turns than in other media.
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Well, the characters in real life are often dense and don't learn things in the nice wrap up at the end.
     
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  8. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Romance is usually important for the story, to raise stakes or increase the drama. Imagine BTTF without romance... ;)
     
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Ok. Time traveling fun movie. I can live with that.
     
  10. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Everyone wishing for a return to 80’s - 00’s Berman Trek should watch this video.
     
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  11. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Take it sleazy Moderator

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    I prefer having a plot with stakes, special effects and fish out of water hijinks can only carry a story for so long.
     
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  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Ok. No requisite for romance in that equation.

    I stand by my statement.

    Mileage will vary, and all that jazz. I am failing to see issues where apparently there are issues... :shrug:
     
  13. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Commodore Commodore

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    I definitely see your point. Since I first saw it, I've changed my mind on this issue 3 times already. You can see how she struggles the first time it happens, and the emotions. So it's wrong to criticize her choices.

    I think the devil is in the details. After her encounter with Riker, when she's waiting for the new host to arrive. She's smiling. When she's told the host has arrived, she says "send him in." Her smile disappears. She's withdrawn. Later she dumps Odan.

    The problem pops up when this is analyzed outside the trek universe. It's pretty unlikely the studio would have had Beverly say yes and pursue the relationship, given how mainstream popular TNG was at the time, out of fear of some type of viewer backlash.

    But at the same time, she couldn't exactly say, "I'm sorry, I thought you were going to be a male" either. That would fly in the face of the idea that 24th century humans were so evolved and accepting.

    So she gave a speech that kind of glided in the middle and based most of her rejection on changing bodies in general, although it was visually obvious she was happier when expecting another male.

    Basically she could have rejected Odan by admitting she was expecting another male, without being seen as homophobic. She has free choice. But the evolution of humanity was so hyped in TNG, they kind of shut that door.

    So she had to tell something of a half truth. It was slightly more than that, but she left that part out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
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  14. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Commodore Commodore

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    I think some people are wondering if Picard is testing the waters by being vague to see what the response will be.

    It just seems weird to talk about a close association or friendship that way. Who talks like that about a simple friendship? But at the same time, she's not saying they were a sexual couple either.

    Unless it's some weird, 'we shared our minds' sci-fi thing they're talking about. Or it probably has some secret or mystery plot element around it that gets explored in flashbacks.
     
  15. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is really bizarre take. Beverly is straight. Being straight is not homophobic, and it unreasonable to expect her to change her sexuality and I truly hope that the 'evolved sensibilities' of the 24th century people mean that no one would ever expect that from anyone.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    But it's still a lie.

    Beverly doesn't want to sleep with a woman, because she's straight, but that's not what she said.

    She said that she didn't like the uncertainty of the constant body hopping.

    So?

    Is it the uncertainty or the vagina?

    It's definitely the vagina.

    Then why did she say it was the uncertainty?

    Why lie?

    Because Beverly knew that she was on the wrong side of history and felt shame.
     
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  17. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Commodore Commodore

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    Beverly was trying to spare Odan's feelings and also not offend them. She's not attracted to women. Case closed. Nobody should be forced to do anything they're not comfortable with and for Crusher that obviously means she doesn't want to date women. She shouldn't be condemned for this.

    This episode would not happen today. If it did Beverly would happily roll with the changes no matter what Odan turned into and that's just not realistic. People can be evolved but give me a break. We all have preferences. Another reason this episode would be different today is because the Trill race were entirely retconned by DS9. Odan remained the same person just in a different body but in DS9 the host and the symbiote are merged into a different entity with the host being dominant. A much more appealing prospect than having your body completely taken over and essentially dying.
     
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  18. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    So...two weeks later we're still debating what a character who's never appeared on this show said/did on another show 30 years ago? Seems like there might be a forum for beating that dead horse.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I read the transcript.

    2 things about after Bev rejects Odan...

    Beverly says that she will always love odan.

    Hmmm.

    Odan, in her new body, kisses Bev on the hand, as she is leaving the Enterprise.

    IS THIS THE FIRST ####ING LESBIAN KISS ON STAR TREK???
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    One would certainly hope, yes.