OMG! B&B have gone MAD!!! BORG!!!
- Thread starter Frontier
- Start date
- Status
Disagreed utterly.
The premise is just fine. In fact, this viewer was enthusiastically brought back precisely because of the premise.
I'd argue that one of the show's biggest problems is the apparent inability of the producers/writers to let go of the late 24th Century and actually let the show embrace its premise. Do that, and the show's likelihood of meeting its potential improves drastically.
Best,
Alex
G
Guest
Guest
^^^ Hear, Hear, good chap! That's exactly the Mother Flaw: the writers/producers/whoevers are trying to do mid-22nd century with a 24th century spin. Yeah, so we'd be missing some of the things from later Trek: food replicators, holoemmiters, shield systems, linear engines, etc. But it seems that even so, the w/p/w's still want to go back to that stuff!
Now, I'm not saying that we should go back to everything looking like it was done and produced in the 1960's. I realize that a prequel (Take that godawful Star Wars, for instance) will inevitably have major updates to look, style, and charachter in order to represent current trends. But why do we have to have w/p/w's that keep regurgitating the same old stories?
Why not have a super-badass Melkotian (yes, I know they're extremely reclusive, but that story would be much more credible than the Borgification scheme)? Or howabout a Tholian or Gorn, or Excalabian? Do you see my point? There's plent of canon races (if the w/p/w's are leary of actually being creative and taking some initiatives with species design) to arc major stories along. For example, why haven't we seen the "Silent Enemies"; now they were badass!
Okay, so now you all are like, "Okay, be quite!" And, I will. But just keep this in mind: while TPTB try to get a "new" show with a "new" fanbase by pulling stunts and bad writing, they're alienating their core base. Don't agree? Just look at NEM (yes, I know that they didn't write it, but it was still sloppily executed).
That's my two cents. I'd love to hear all-ya'll's thoughts on this.
Now, I'm not saying that we should go back to everything looking like it was done and produced in the 1960's. I realize that a prequel (Take that godawful Star Wars, for instance) will inevitably have major updates to look, style, and charachter in order to represent current trends. But why do we have to have w/p/w's that keep regurgitating the same old stories?
Why not have a super-badass Melkotian (yes, I know they're extremely reclusive, but that story would be much more credible than the Borgification scheme)? Or howabout a Tholian or Gorn, or Excalabian? Do you see my point? There's plent of canon races (if the w/p/w's are leary of actually being creative and taking some initiatives with species design) to arc major stories along. For example, why haven't we seen the "Silent Enemies"; now they were badass!
Okay, so now you all are like, "Okay, be quite!" And, I will. But just keep this in mind: while TPTB try to get a "new" show with a "new" fanbase by pulling stunts and bad writing, they're alienating their core base. Don't agree? Just look at NEM (yes, I know that they didn't write it, but it was still sloppily executed).
That's my two cents. I'd love to hear all-ya'll's thoughts on this.
The opening sequence of "Emissary" featured the Borg, the battle of Wolf359 to be exact. The rest of the episode in fact was all about Sisko dealing with the consequences of the Borg attack, specifically the fact that he couldn't let go of Jennifer's death there.
DS9's one episode on the Borg might just be the best borg episode ever produced.
Really?
[*]Busty female character
[*]Dominates the show.
[*]Wears ridiculous outfit.
[*]Is deeply disdainful of all the humans around her.
[*]Is often accused of having conflicting loyalties and must continually prove allegiance to her shipmates
[*]Unable to and/or afraid to connect to her more emotional human like qualities.
[*]The sexual tension she is associated with is heavily overused.
[*]Relationship with the Captain is overplayed
[*]Character arc is tied directly to her ability to come to accept humanity.
Yeah, I guess you're right. T'Pol and Seven are in fact very different.
Wierd thing is replace the word 'Human' with 'Federation'in the above, and it also gives a decent description of the character Kira Neryes from DS9
Posted by Noname Given:
Wierd thing is replace the word 'Human' with 'Federation'in the above, and it also gives a decent description of the character Kira Neryes from DS9
Well, I don't think Kyra's sexuality was ever as blatantly exploited or as often as either Seven or T'Pol. Even as "The Attendant" sexuality was used as a contrast for the Kyra character. When Kyra's feminity or sexuality did become subjects it was always to advance the character, the baby she carried, her relationship with Odo, etc. Whereas, with Seven and T'Pol, it's always exploitative.
And Kyra's suspicion of humanity was only central to her character for the first couple of seasons. After that she was pretty ok with Sisko et al. At lest IIRC IMHO.
Oh dear.
I was really hoping to never see this, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. The same way I'm not surprised at the predictable whining going on for 14 pages.
Some thoughts:
1. I never thought the Borg were over-used on Voyager. Voyager is in the Delta Quadrant. The Borg are in the Delta Quadrant. Do the math.
2. The story in and of itself is not a problem and in fact a good idea. It makes perfect sense. I'd rather not see the Borg anywhere near Enterprise, but I like the idea of following up on First Contact.
3. Now, while I've been proven wrong in the past, part of me thinks this is a hoax. Like in the way this unconfirmed synopsis surfaces right after Enterprise is enjoying a string of excellent episodes and infectious high fan enthusiasm for the first time since the start of the season. Now look how this has predictably sabotaged this whole forum. If this were the case, then it's incredibly selfish and petty: things I would not put past an embittered fan. Or how about the way there isn't any mention in the NX-01 playing any kind of part into this story.
But if it happens, it happens. No big deal.
I was really hoping to never see this, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. The same way I'm not surprised at the predictable whining going on for 14 pages.
Some thoughts:
1. I never thought the Borg were over-used on Voyager. Voyager is in the Delta Quadrant. The Borg are in the Delta Quadrant. Do the math.
2. The story in and of itself is not a problem and in fact a good idea. It makes perfect sense. I'd rather not see the Borg anywhere near Enterprise, but I like the idea of following up on First Contact.
3. Now, while I've been proven wrong in the past, part of me thinks this is a hoax. Like in the way this unconfirmed synopsis surfaces right after Enterprise is enjoying a string of excellent episodes and infectious high fan enthusiasm for the first time since the start of the season. Now look how this has predictably sabotaged this whole forum.
If this were the case, then it's incredibly selfish and petty: things I would not put past an embittered fan. Or how about the way there isn't any mention in the NX-01 playing any kind of part into this story.But if it happens, it happens. No big deal.
^^ Clearly it's a big deal to everybody else, hence 14 pages of ranting.
And if it IS real, then it's not an embittered fan, but utter blind stupidity on the parts of B&B. WHat kind of idiots would sabotage themselves like this. You have to wonder... The implications are, it IS a big deal, if those bozos remain in charge if this is real.
And if it IS real, then it's not an embittered fan, but utter blind stupidity on the parts of B&B. WHat kind of idiots would sabotage themselves like this. You have to wonder... The implications are, it IS a big deal, if those bozos remain in charge if this is real.
I personally can't stand the idea of introducing the Borg to ENT. That's not to say that I'm saying the episode will be horrible, just that it is completely unnecissary. Many have said that this proposed episode would clear a lot of loose ends. I on the otherhand do not thin the ends were so loose after Star Trek: First Contact. Like several people here I find it silly to assume that Picard and company would travel back in time to make sure the timeline is not tampered with and yet leave material that would alter that timeline. If they went to the extent of covering their own warp core signature, wouldn't it also be likely that they would cover up evidence of a battle, that implemented vastly superior technology and might have left debris made of highly developed never before seen alloys? To suggest that any Star Fleet captain would leave such physical evidence laying around to be discovered by a technologically inferior people is ridiculous. This would not only be a violation of the Prime Directive but also defeats the purpose of trying to preserve the timeline. This proposed story implies a level of incompetence, on the part of Captain Picard, totally unheard of in Star Trek. Although I don't believe that the episode will violate continuity, I do believe that premise is flawed to say the least. 
I would also add that I think it's hardly likely that a borg drone would survive a hundred years without the use of a regeneration alcove. In First Contact they were functioning in the vacuum of space, so being frozen in a hunk of ice just isn't a viable explanation to me.
I would also add that I think it's hardly likely that a borg drone would survive a hundred years without the use of a regeneration alcove. In First Contact they were functioning in the vacuum of space, so being frozen in a hunk of ice just isn't a viable explanation to me.Posted by where'sSaavik?:
Really?
[*]Busty female character
[*]Dominates the show.
[*]Wears ridiculous outfit.
[*]Is deeply disdainful of all the humans around her.
[*]Is often accused of having conflicting loyalties and must continually prove allegiance to her shipmates
[*]Unable to and/or afraid to connect to her more emotional human like qualities.
[*]The sexual tension she is associated with is heavily overused.
[*]Relationship with the Captain is overplayed
[*]Character arc is tied directly to her ability to come to accept humanity.
Yeah, I guess you're right. T'Pol and Seven are in fact very different.
Well, replace "show" with "TrekBBS" and "crew" with "posters" and you're describing T'Bonz.
Oh I agree. I know people are tired of the Borg. I, however, am not. People need to separate why an episode is done and the quality of the episode itself. I don't think Q Who? will ever be robbed of its dark power, but they don't seem to realize that any subsequent installment that changes that will further anger fans who do take it seriously. That's why I was questioning why this info came out just two days after their most well received episode of the season. That's why I'm thinking it's basher retribution.
And there are times I just see the execs telling B&B what to do:Exec: "The ratings are slipping. Bring in the Borg."
B&B: "The fans will hate us!"
Exec: "The fans will love it. Do it or you're fired."
B&B: "Okay."
Again, I really have no wish to see them on Enterprise, but it doesn't stretch credibility to put them there either IMHO. I just get miffed at people getting their noses out of joint believing that "first contact" between cultures is so cut and dry like in history books.
*coughvikingscough*
^^ I've made the impassioned first contact speech before, Vikings/America/Chinese/America, everybody but Columbus/America etc.
You're right.
The timing IS curious. I sincerely hope it is a fan hoax, like you say. ENT has actually been on a roll of late, and it's good to see.
But the other possibility is ghastly - that B&B are so out of touch, they actually rushed this leak out on the wave of positivity thinking it might further boost buzz? (shudders) I hope that's not the case, but I fear it is.
You're right.
The timing IS curious. I sincerely hope it is a fan hoax, like you say. ENT has actually been on a roll of late, and it's good to see.
But the other possibility is ghastly - that B&B are so out of touch, they actually rushed this leak out on the wave of positivity thinking it might further boost buzz? (shudders) I hope that's not the case, but I fear it is.
Better hope she's not still reading this thread, else not even I will be able to protect you.
G
Guest
Guest
They HAVE gone mad. I can't believe what they're doing to Enterprise. That's why this site was born:
http://trekfansunited.bravepages.com
http://trekfansunited.bravepages.com
Posted by where'sSaavik?:
Better hope she's not still reading this thread, else not even I will be able to protect you.
Actually, it was so far off the mark, that I decided after thinking about it for about 10 seconds...that it wasn't worth the effort of whipping his ass and making a retort to the lame post.
Here's the thing:
I have started to collect all of Star Trek, the complete canon, on DVD.
I imagine by the time I've collected all of them, I'll have kids. And since I was raised on and got my morals from Star Trek, I will raise my kids on Star Trek. One episode a week. I'll start them off with Enterprise (they can watch the history of the Federation evolve in chronological order). And along will come this episode. They won't know about the Borg, I doubt the word Borg will even be mentioned in the episode. There will be frightening cybernetic humanoids, on Earth. Where did these guys come from? Who are they?
Watch all of Enterprise. Watch the three original seasons of Star Trek. Watch the first six movies. Watching Next Generation.....holy shit! Here they are again! They're called the Borg! Wow! What were they doing on Earth?
Watch the entire canon of TNG. Watch Generations (Kirk's dead? No way!). Watch First Contact......oh my God! I figured it out! That's where they came from! It only took 500 weeks of watching and 200 years of simulated history to work it out.
Come on, that's pretty cool.
d
I have started to collect all of Star Trek, the complete canon, on DVD.
I imagine by the time I've collected all of them, I'll have kids. And since I was raised on and got my morals from Star Trek, I will raise my kids on Star Trek. One episode a week. I'll start them off with Enterprise (they can watch the history of the Federation evolve in chronological order). And along will come this episode. They won't know about the Borg, I doubt the word Borg will even be mentioned in the episode. There will be frightening cybernetic humanoids, on Earth. Where did these guys come from? Who are they?
Watch all of Enterprise. Watch the three original seasons of Star Trek. Watch the first six movies. Watching Next Generation.....holy shit! Here they are again! They're called the Borg! Wow! What were they doing on Earth?
Watch the entire canon of TNG. Watch Generations (Kirk's dead? No way!). Watch First Contact......oh my God! I figured it out! That's where they came from! It only took 500 weeks of watching and 200 years of simulated history to work it out.
Come on, that's pretty cool.
d
Okay, so now they've drawn their line in the sand and are daring us to step over it.
Well, move aside, boys, because these boots were made for walkin:
1. I was giving ENT a chance and now will not.
Instead I will switch to ABC to catch "My Wife and Kids" which is far more funnier and far better written.
2. I will buy no products associated with ENT. No action figures, trading cards, props, etc.
3. I will videotape ENT and see who are their sponsors and will not buy their products.
4. I will not watch a Paramount produced TV show or movie or buy products associated with the company or the products of the sponsors of those shows.
I don't have to tell my friends not to watch ENT because all (12) of them don't already and don't consider the show Star Trek.
I will continue these practices until Mr. Berman and Mr. Braga are removed from control over ALL aspects of Star Trek.
I regret to take these steps but circumstances have left me little choice.
- Anji
Well, move aside, boys, because these boots were made for walkin:
1. I was giving ENT a chance and now will not.
Instead I will switch to ABC to catch "My Wife and Kids" which is far more funnier and far better written.
2. I will buy no products associated with ENT. No action figures, trading cards, props, etc.
3. I will videotape ENT and see who are their sponsors and will not buy their products.
4. I will not watch a Paramount produced TV show or movie or buy products associated with the company or the products of the sponsors of those shows.
I don't have to tell my friends not to watch ENT because all (12) of them don't already and don't consider the show Star Trek.
I will continue these practices until Mr. Berman and Mr. Braga are removed from control over ALL aspects of Star Trek.
I regret to take these steps but circumstances have left me little choice.
- Anji
- Status
Similar threads
