Ok. What is the chance of a Picard spinoff?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by ELCHawk, Apr 23, 2023.

  1. drt

    drt Commodore Commodore

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    Berman-era Trek for the most part tried to distance itself from everything that came before (other than a couple of callback episodes here and there). TNG had its own identity separate from TOS, DS9 was separate from TNG, etc., it really wasn’t until Season 4 of ENT that we got a show about connecting the nostalgia dots.
     
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  2. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    To be fair, there was a lot less of TOS than the Berman Era. Three seasons, six movies, and that was it. Berman Trek had to create more because there wasn't a lot already there. (I didn't include TAS because they considered it non-canon).

    If the Berman Era was following 28 seasons and 13 movies, it would've handled things differently. How do I know this? Because DS9 and VOY were extensions of TNG, continuing things introduced there. ENT was essentially a series-long follow-up to FC, showing what happened a century after Vulcan made first contact with Earth. Their natural inclination was to build upon what was already there, not to completely start over from scratch. TNG was the outlier.

    It also didn't help that Gene Roddenberry wanted Rick Berman and company to quietly forget about TOS. A lot of it probably had to do with thinking he could make a better version of Star Trek than he did with TOS; and there had to be resentment that the TOS Movies were taken away from him. So he probably thought "fuck 'em", regarding TOS. He wasn't just in on TNG, he was all in. He wanted Star Trek to be built around TNG, going forward.

    And DS9 wasn't that separate from TNG. The Bajorans came from TNG. The Cardassians came from TNG. The Ferengi came from TNG. The Trill came from TNG. Once TNG ended, DS9 inherited the ongoing storylines with the Klingons and Romulans. Worf and O'Brien came from TNG. Sisko's backstory in the pilot was rooted in "The Best of Both Worlds".

    VOY is more separate from TNG than DS9 was, but the Maquis -- created for VOY -- were introduced in TNG and DS9. When Voyager is flung to the Delta Quadrant, and they're trying to get home, "home" isn't just "Earth", "home" is the Star Trek of TNG. Just ask Barclay and Troi.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2023
  3. cal888

    cal888 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Another thing too is just how rare there were direct references to other episodes in TOS. After Vulcan worldbuilding, the Klingons, Romulans, and to a far lesser extent the Andorians and Tellarites, that left the Galactic Barrier appearing in 3 episodes, Mudd returning, Pike getting name dropped in "Mirror, Mirror", repeating a method of time travel, and offhand callbacks, like to "A Taste of Armageddon" in "By Any Other Name".

    It would have been very cool for TNG to do some "100 years later" follow ups to TOS, but, even then, it's not like the average TNG episode would have a follow up or direct reference, just pivotal ones that established mythology worldbuilding (Klingon, Romulan, Borg, and yes later Cardassians and the Bajorans) or once a season (or less) recurring characters, like Q, Lore, or Lwaxana Troi. If "Sarek" had to be the one that made it, I'd take following up "Journey to Babel" with Mark Leonard's performance over something plot related that no doubt could be a topic for a TNG novel or comic.

    Contrast this with STARGATE SG-1, where over the span of 10 seasons, almost every single episode has some kind of continuity call back. Or even THE X-FILES, with their pure mythology, tangentially related mythology, and stand alone MOTW episodes.

    BTW, to Lord Garth, I hope your job search process is going well.
     
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  4. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks. I've got a long way to go. Looking for a job while you're still working is a task-and-a-half. I had to update my resume (hadn't done that in four years), I'm still in the middle of updating my demo (hadn't done that in six years!), I only just gathered together the last of what I needed this past weekend, and I've lined up a good list of leads and have had some referrals to start off with. And I have to buy a new suit, so I have to look into that. Getting a new job is a job in and of itself.
     
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  5. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

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    Voyager was widely derided as TNG-lite for its repetition of TNG tropes, and despite its premise managed to work in Ferengi, Klingons (beyond Torres), Romulans and multiple TNG characters, as well as plenty of wider references.
     
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  6. Uhura's Song

    Uhura's Song Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    IDK, in S1 of TNG, there were some pretty early, blatant TOS references.

    1. McCoy in "Encounter at Farpoint."
    2. Ep3 is "The Naked Now." A direct spin off of TOS S1's "The Naked Time."
    3. Ep 6 is "Where No One Has Gone Before" a direct riff on TOS's 2nd pilot "Where No Man Has Gone Before."

    Naked Now even tries the syrum from TOS, acknowledging the orevious incident, but it does not work.

    Where No One is slightly different. But crazy speeds, potentially stranded far away from home, and weird side effects are common in both. As is the title.

    Agree on the Roddenberry stuff. But there was some taking from TOS early on.
     
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  7. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    True.

    I think the reasoning behind this episode was: "We can have everyone talking about sex now!" After this episode, TNG Season 1 does revisit TOS concepts, but it's all changed into TNG packaging. Which brings me to...

    Outside of the title, I never thought about it like that until now.

    I was thinking more along the lines of:
    • "Code of Honor" & "Amok Time": Yar & Yareena fight to the "death", just like Kirk & Spock, but but no one dies.
    • "The Last Outpost" & "Arena": The T'Kon fill the Metrons' role and are even impressed by Humanity at the end.
    • "Hide & Q" & "The Squire of Gothos": Q is even more Trelane than Trelane in this one. Right down to dressing like a general at one point and Q being summoned by Q Continuum at the end, like Trelane was summoned by his parents.
    • "Hide & Q" (pulling double-duty here!) & "Where No Man Has Gone Before": Riker gains Godlike powers just like Mitchell did, except this is an inversion because Riker resists the temptation.
    • "Haven" & "Amok Time": Troi is part of a pre-arranged marriage, just like Spock, and both marriages end up dissolved)
    • "The Big Goodbye" & "A Piece of the Action" (self-explanatory)
    • "Datalore" & "The Enemy Within": Data has an evil look-alike brother, Kirk has an evil transporter duplicate. Lore has a twitch he tries to hide, Evil Kirk has scratches.
    • "Coming of Age" & "Journey to Babel": Worf's backstory revealed and it sounds a lot like Spock. Worf, being raised by Human foster-parents, was considered too "Human" among other Klingons and too "Klingon" among Humans, so he joined Starfleet.
    • "The Neutral Zone" & "Balance of Terror": The Romulans return for the first time in X years, and outposts are destroyed along the Neutral Zone. The only difference is this time the outposts were destroyed by a third party, who we later find out to be the Borg.
    • "The Neutral Zone" (pulling double-duty too!) & "Tomorrow Is Yesterday": The Enterprise has to deal with Humans from more-or-less Present Day.
    Then there are the examples you gave, and I'll also add Q putting the Picard on trial just like Trelane put Kirk on trial.

    Like I said, Gene re-did a lot of the ideas he wanted to re-do. That was probably his justification. And it came across to a lot of fans in the '80s as TNG ripping off TOS. Or, to quote what my godbrother said about 25 years ago, "50% of the first season was ripped off from the original series, 40% blew chunks, and the remaining 10% was actually good." His words, not mine.

    My take on TNG Season 1 is that it wasn't good or bad so much as it was just all over the place.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2023
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  8. ichab

    ichab Commodore Commodore

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    A show featuring the newest Enterprise in the prime timeline is what I've been waiting for. So the ending of Picard with Seven as the captain had me excited and seemed like a sequal set up. If it doesn't happen it will be because of
    1.) the cost cutting measures that are happening in the streaming landscape
    2.) there is already a Trek show featuring an Enterprise exploring strange new worlds. A second might seem redundant.
     
  9. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If they ever make Star Trek: Legacy, they should just have the TNG cast use those training pods from Lower Decks to literally re-enact their TNG episodes:lol:
     
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  10. El Maestro

    El Maestro Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I know that there were some intentional decisions made to let TNG stand on its own (and they made sense at the time, given that TOS movies were still happening in 1987), but I never got the vibe they were trying to "forget" TOS. TNG is definitely a "descendant" of TOS, even in-universe. While you didn't need to see TOS to understand/enjoy TNG, having seen TOS definitely made TNG a better and richer experience. Concepts, vibes, story, and world-building all had nods/references to TOS, to say nothing of the characters that appeared.

    I think Legacy could be very well done, and not even that complicated of a concept...just have a show where the Enterprise explores strange new worlds, seeks out new life etc. with characters that are connected to others in the franchise in some way. Boom, done. You are wide open for a huge variety of stories, settings, characters, etc., and you can have as much or as little baggage from the rest of the franchise was you want. I know some fans are clamoring for something "different" but the original Trek concept as outlined in the TOS and TNG intro is still quite sound and offers nearly unlimited creative potential. SNW kind of proves this.
     
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  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It does, which ignores exactly what Legacy would be based upon what Matalas states (which of course could change multiple times over, given that Picard went from "No uniforms" to "Hey, reunion!"). Matalas wants to bring in Alexander, and the LaForges, and Jack Crusher of course, and other characters that are deliberately following up on previous stories. At this point in time (emphasis here) I does not appeal in the way SNW does. SNW gives us familiar characters, and the exploration and does something very different. It has a total tonal difference from the other shows.
     
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  12. HotRod

    HotRod Commodore Commodore

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    You just described Strange New Worlds.

    They've never had two shows running at the same time that share the exact same premise.

    DS9 was very different from TNG, and Voyager was very different from DS9.

    I don't think they'll flood their own market, anymore the they already did, with TWO shows set onboard the Starship Enterprise, on a mission of exploration.

    If they were to go this route with the supposed "Legacy" series, it hopefully won't be until SNW has a long and healthy run.
     
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  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    “Where are they now?” Doesn’t excite me as a Star Trek premise.
     
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  14. El Maestro

    El Maestro Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I suppose that is true, and I would be happy for SNW to have a long and healthy run!

    Really the only thing I feel a strong desire for is to see Seven in command. Wife and I are picking at VOY here and there and her long term evolution is very interesting and fun to see. If I had to choose at this moment, though, it would be SNW….
     
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  15. El Maestro

    El Maestro Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Me either, but it’s all in the execution…I wasn’t excited for a space station based show either and look how that turned out….
     
  16. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

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    Three seasons, four at the most (Disco was a test case with five seasons).

    The days of shows going for twenty-plus seasons like NCIS are over. It's no longer necessary (the syndication market dried up in the mid-2000's).
     
  17. HotRod

    HotRod Commodore Commodore

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    5 is my current bet.
     
  18. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

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    Five is pushing it.

    They're not going to go there (Not when they've got other stuff in the pipeline -- Starfleet Academy, the Section 31 movie).

    On Netflix, it's a miracle if something lasts three seasons.
     
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    One more than I expected.
     
  20. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    They'll do five. It's SNW.

    SFA will do four. Four years at the Academy.
     
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