Odd Things about Starfleet

[Timo]

FWIW, McCoy is introduced, production date and stardate wise, in "The Corbomite Maneuver" as an apparent longtime friend of Kirk's. He inexplicably replaces Piper...

...Bear with me, please. Yes, there's not much to explain there, but we could easily see things differently just for the heck of it. After the second pilot, which introduces Kirk, Spock and Piper, the ship would be at the outer edge of known space, having failed in her mission to penetrate the Galactic Barrier and having lost key officers. "Mudd's Women" shows the ship suffering from a fatal shortage of spares and crew resources, with Spock now pulling double duty as a Science Officer, Sulu at the helm, and Uhura in a department color we later learn is uncharacteristic for her. And in "The Corbomite Maneuver", the ship is operating in uncharted space still, that is, again doing explicit where-no-man-has-gone-before stuff. The situation does not markedly change in the following episodes...

We could see in all of this a slow crawl back to civilized space after the humiliating defeat at the Barrier, perhaps with Piper and everybody else halfway competent sent to meatier assignments while young Kirk is banished to do tedious star charting, now having to rely on his medical friend in need despite his many shortcomings, and of course on the stubborn Vulcan who refuses a career-preserving reassignment and sticks with the young loser. Internal reshuffling and stretching of resources keeps the ship going, until a chance adventure during another punitive assignment to the quiet Romulan Neutral Zone finally restores Kirk's reputation. And from that date on, Kirk can choose his company and retain even the abrasive and professionally lackluster McCoy.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nyotarules]

Another odd thing, considering the marriage rate among military officers is pretty high (the divorce rate might be as well..shrugs) none of the crew has a consistent 'significant other' for their whole career? Pretty sad and pathetic
Spock gets divorced and becomes a celibate monk - so what happened to his future Ponn Farrs?
McCoy already divorced, marries Natira out of desperation and then divorces her once he is cured? The Cad!
Kirk - well no comment about him - manwhore of the galaxy
Scotty - never gets the girl for too long
Sulu - secret wife, lover/secret daughter?
Chekov - well.....
Uhura - needs to get laid pronto, poor woman was a galactic nun!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Yeah that can work as well until someone took Starfleet too court for practicing 'Jim Crow' laws so by the time of the first ST movie all ships were desegregated.

The only problem with that is, in DS9 there is a Starfleet vessel (the T'Kumbra) with an all-Vulcan crew.

 

[Nyotarules]

The only problem with that is, in DS9 there is a Starfleet vessel (the T'Kumbra with an all-Vulcan crew.

Cos no one took up the aliens can apply posts?
The Vulcans needed a 'Ponn Farr can take place here without embarressment' ship?
The Dominion war increased the Vulcan intake overnight?
The non vulcan crew were getting their groove on elsewhere on DS9 after months of repressing their emotions?

 

[Timo]

none of the crew has a consistent 'significant other' for their whole career?

That I guess is purely an artifact of us not seeing their "whole career". We only saw the five-year deep space sortie which would have precluded these liaisons; beyond that, everybody probably did get married at least thrice, but why would they drag their spouses and kids to work?

Well, okay, perhaps Kirk himself stayed single. But we can't really tell. Perhaps that "never rains but pours" thing in ST2 was Bones gently elbowing Jim about the fact that the probability of adultery for the weekend was about 95%?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fireproof78]

That I guess is purely an artifact of us not seeing their "whole career". We only saw the five-year deep space sortie which would have precluded these liaisons; beyond that, everybody probably did get married at least thrice, but why would they drag their spouses and kids to work?

Well, okay, perhaps Kirk himself stayed single. But we can't really tell. Perhaps that "never rains but pours" thing in ST2 was Bones gently elbowing Jim about the fact that the probability of adultery for the weekend was about 95%?

Timo Saloniemi

Indeed. It's an odd assumption that because we never saw the crew in relationships that they never had relationships. Spock is a nonissue, since he dealt with his pon farr and continued on with his career. The rest is speculation, but think it is reasonable that at least some of the crew members enjoyed relationships to some degree or another. Just not on the missions we saw

 

[Nyotarules]

That I guess is purely an artifact of us not seeing their "whole career". We only saw the five-year deep space sortie which would have precluded these liaisons; beyond that, everybody probably did get married at least thrice, but why would they drag their spouses and kids to work?

Well, okay, perhaps Kirk himself stayed single. But we can't really tell. Perhaps that "never rains but pours" thing in ST2 was Bones gently elbowing Jim about the fact that the probability of adultery for the weekend was about 95%?

Timo Saloniemi

Or K/S/M were a threesome and Su/Uh/Ch/Scotty were a foursome!
(fanfiction wet dream)

 

[Nyotarules]

Indeed. It's an odd assumption that because we never saw the crew in relationships that they never had relationships. Spock is a nonissue, since he dealt with his pon farr and continued on with his career. The rest is speculation, but think it is reasonable that at least some of the crew members enjoyed relationships to some degree or another. Just not on the missions we saw

Spock is not a non issue he should be dead, unless he was a fluke Vulcan that only had one Ponn Farr, or spent the rest of his Ponn Farrs beating the hell out of Klingons, Nausicans or anyone else who got in his way? Or he had an account at an Orion brothel that he visited every 7 years. Or he married the Kirstie Allen version of Saavik after all.

 

[fireproof78]

Spock is not a non issue he should be dead, unless he was a fluke Vulcan that only had one Ponn Farr, or spent the rest of his Ponn Farrs beating the hell out of Klingons, Nausicans or anyone else who got in his way? Or he had an account at an Orion brothel that he visited every 7 years. Or he married the Kirstie Allen version of Saavik after all.

Only logical...I think?

 

[T'Girl]

Sulu's daughter would have been conceived in what year approximately?

It could have been a one night stand, or a surogate mother sure, or the daughter could have been the issue of a long standing relationship with someone Sulu was in a committed relationship with.

+

 

[Nyotarules]

Sulu's daughter would have been conceived in what year approximately?

It could have been a one night stand, or a surogate mother sure, or the daughter could have been the issue of a long standing relationship with someone Sulu was in a committed relationship with.
+

Refresh my memory did Kirk et al even know Sulu had a daughter? Were they surprised to know she existed in Generations or just surprised she was a grown adult?

 

[1001001]

They referred to it being "12 years" since Kirk saw her, so he was aware of her.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Cos no one took up the aliens can apply posts?
The Vulcans needed a 'Ponn Farr can take place here without embarressment' ship?
The Dominion war increased the Vulcan intake overnight?
The non vulcan crew were getting their groove on elsewhere on DS9 after months of repressing their emotions?

The reason the T'Kumbra had an all-Vulcan crew seems obvious: The captain (Solok) is prejudiced against humans and doesn't want them on his ship.

It's readily apparent, every time Solok is onscreen, that he hates humans and openly gloats about how superior Vulcans supposedly are. If you were a human Starfleet officer, would you want to serve with someone like that?

 

[Longinus]

The reason the T'Kumbra had an all-Vulcan crew seems obvious: The captain (Solok) is prejudiced against humans and doesn't want them on his ship.

It's readily apparent, every time Solok is onscreen, that he hates humans and openly gloats about how superior Vulcans supposedly are. If you were a human Starfleet officer, would you want to serve with someone like that?

Well, I'm sure someone would. And I don't think captain could get away with such discrimination. It was Nebula-class ship, it has a huge crew. Them all being Vulcan is indeed pretty strange.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Sulu's daughter would have been conceived in what year approximately?

It could have been a one night stand, or a surogate mother sure, or the daughter could have been the issue of a long standing relationship with someone Sulu was in a committed relationship with.

Peter David's The Captain's Daughter novel has Demora being conceived during the gap between TOS and TMP, so around 2271. This would jibe with Demora being in her early 20s by the time of GEN.

 

[Captain Rob]

Uhura - needs to get laid pronto, poor woman was a galactic nun!

I think her famous "Sorry, Neither!" line handily disproved that idea.

 

[Drone]

FWIW, McCoy is introduced, production date and stardate wise, in "The Corbomite Maneuver" as an apparent longtime friend of Kirk's. He inexplicably replaces Piper...

...Bear with me, please. Yes, there's not much to explain there, but we could easily see things differently just for the heck of it. After the second pilot, which introduces Kirk, Spock and Piper, the ship would be at the outer edge of known space, having failed in her mission to penetrate the Galactic Barrier and having lost key officers. "Mudd's Women" shows the ship suffering from a fatal shortage of spares and crew resources, with Spock now pulling double duty as a Science Officer, Sulu at the helm, and Uhura in a department color we later learn is uncharacteristic for her. And in "The Corbomite Maneuver", the ship is operating in uncharted space still, that is, again doing explicit where-no-man-has-gone-before stuff. The situation does not markedly change in the following episodes...

We could see in all of this a slow crawl back to civilized space after the humiliating defeat at the Barrier, perhaps with Piper and everybody else halfway competent sent to meatier assignments while young Kirk is banished to do tedious star charting, now having to rely on his medical friend in need despite his many shortcomings, and of course on the stubborn Vulcan who refuses a career-preserving reassignment and sticks with the young loser. Internal reshuffling and stretching of resources keeps the ship going, until a chance adventure during another punitive assignment to the quiet Romulan Neutral Zone finally restores Kirk's reputation. And from that date on, Kirk can choose his company and retain even the abrasive and professionally lackluster McCoy.

Timo Saloniemi

I rather like this idea. It has a neat symmetry to it as events played out, and not coincidentally, ties into, at least to some degree, my oft stated proposition that Kirk took actions like a foolhardy rookie in WNMHGB that resulted in the warrantless death of a number of the crew, including Mitchell, for whom at some point in the future, he should have had an episode that at least included a difficult period of reflection on the consequences of those actions, a la Janeway in Night.

 

[Timo]

I'm not sure much more was expected of Kirk. He was rather often tasked with "at all costs" missions where failure certainly was an option. The Barrier mission could be another of those, and Dr Dehner would be specifically assigned to witness the expected failure and see whether Kirk, the known disbeliever in defeat, would cope with this no-win scenario better now that he carried commissioned rank.

Perhaps that's why "starship" captains are a special breed - they are the designated losers who get all the worst assignments, flying outdated and substandard ships that Starfleet can afford to lose. If and when they fail, Starfleet sends in the big guns, but not before. Essentially, Kirk is a Borg Drone taking hits for the home team, and optionally surviving.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

Peter David's The Captain's Daughter novel has Demora being conceived during the gap between TOS and TMP, so around 2271. This would jibe with Demora being in her early 20s by the time of GEN.

I wonder, with TUC occurring in the early 2290's, and the actress playing the daughter being 26 years, I figured the character would have been conceived in the mid-2260's. Of course the character and the actoress don't have to be the same age.

my oft stated proposition that Kirk took actions like a foolhardy rookie in WNMHGB that resulted in the warrantless death of a number of the crew

Where did Kirk make any decisions as if a rookee? He was order to explore outside the edge of the galaxy, which he attempted to do.

The recorder marker contained no information as to what the cause of the problem aboard the previous ship was, nothing that would indicated that his (probably) more powerful engines and shields wouldn't be able to succeed where the earlier starship failed.

Consistent with his orders, what exactly would you have expected Kirk to do?
+

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I wonder, with TUC occurring in the early 2290's, and the actress playing the daughter being 26 years, I figured the character would have been conceived in the mid-2260's. Of course the character and the actoress don't have to be the same age.

If I had to guess, I think that had to do with trying to make Sulu a responsible father. It's not too responsible to get someone pregnant and then immediately leave the planet for five years.

Spoiler

In the novel, Sulu doesn't discover that he's a father until the newly-orphaned Demora is about 10. After he discovers that he's a father, Sulu passes up being first officer to Morgan Bateson on the Bozeman and takes an Earthbound position at Starfleet Academy in order to raise Demora.

Plus, Demora being 22 and on her first assignment jibes with Chekov's age on his first assignment on the Enterprise.