Odd Things about Starfleet

[Drone]

...Although the episode leaves it open to argument whether the Intrepid was associated with Starfleet or not.
Timo Saloniemi

I don't know what you might be referring to that leaves some ambiguity on this point. The star base Enterprise was heading towards, orders them to look into the ship's disappearance, along with the system it was investigating. I don't think such a description would be used if the Intrepid was not a Starfleet vessel. Spock refers to the death of 400 crew members, a deliberate nod, I think to another Constitution-class ship. If it wasn't Starfleet, under whose aegis would it have been operating? If it was a Vulcan ship , why on earth would it be called the Intrepid? For what it's worth, MA states unequivocally that the ship, was unambiguously of Starfleet issue.

 

[fireproof78]

As for the Starfleet practice of "coming to attention", we see that one rarely enough. And it might be rare in-universe as well: when used in the ceremony on "Tholian Web", the command sends half the crew to more extreme versions of the sad stoop they previously held! Admittedly, they are all suffering from the effects of the interspace rift there, so their confusion might have other causes...

"The Cage" has interesting contradictions on the subject. Nobody comes to attention when Pike enters a room - but several people stand in very rigid attention on the bridge, with apparently nothing else to do than exhibit this parade stance. (In-universe, these blueshirts could be medics waiting for Pike to keel over from the stresses of the Rigel VII disaster, pretending not to be there by holding the pose...)

Timo Saloniemi

"Don't move. His eyesight is based on movement."

 

[J.T.B.]

I don't know what you might be referring to that leaves some ambiguity on this point. The star base Enterprise was heading towards, orders them to look into the ship's disappearance, along with the system it was investigating. I don't think such a description would be used if the Intrepid was not a Starfleet vessel. Spock refers to the death of 400 crew members, a deliberate nod, I think to another Constitution-class ship. If it wasn't Starfleet, under whose aegis would it have been operating? If it was a Vulcan ship , why on earth would it be called the Intrepid? For what it's worth, MA states unequivocally that the ship, was unambiguously of Starfleet issue.

Kirk puts "USS" before Intrepid's name, that's pretty much universally acknowledged as denoting a Starfleet vessel.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk puts "USS" before Intrepid's name, that's pretty much universally acknowledged as denoting a Starfleet vessel.

It also has a specific insignia patch associated with it in much of the reference materials that I have read, similar to other ships that have been seen.

 

[Captain Rob]

The name "Intrepid" was on the decal sheet of my old AMT "USS Enterprise" kit back in the early 70's. Can't get more canon than that.
As for:
"Don't move. His eyesight is based on movement."
I just used that phrase this past weekend.
I was trying to approach a rabbit hanging out in our front yard. I had some food for him.

 

[Timo]

I don't know what you might be referring to that leaves some ambiguity on this point.

JTB pointed out the USS thing, so I won't argue for non-Starfleet any more. But if I did, here's the lowdown:

The star base Enterprise was heading towards, orders them to look into the ship's disappearance, along with the system it was investigating. I don't think such a description would be used if the Intrepid was not a Starfleet vessel.

Why not? Kirk was often ordered to look after non-Starfleet vessels (Mudd's, Sevrin's, all sorts of unidentified vessels), and systems that were not military bases. SB6 was in "contact" with the Intrepid and with the Gamma VII system, and one of those was decidedly not a Starfleet asset!

Spock refers to the death of 400 crew members, a deliberate nod, I think to another Constitution-class ship.

Oh, agreed very much. But that does nothing to remove ambiguity on screen. Indeed, we see that Spock is the person who knows the Intrepid and her 400 Vulcans, with none of the other heroes indicating familiarity until Spock is done with the exposition. She might well be a rather random Vulcan vessel, then. Even if famous in the Vulcan circles.

If it wasn't Starfleet, under whose aegis would it have been operating?

Why should that matter? Vulcan Science Academy, perhaps. Or American Continent Institute, for all we care. Trek is rife with possibilities and precedent.

If it was a Vulcan ship , why on earth would it be called the Intrepid?

Why not? Vulcans aren't prone to trepidation, or at least won't admit to it.

For what it's worth, MA states unequivocally that the ship, was unambiguously of Starfleet issue.

Then it's time to edit Memory "Often Wrong" Alpha. Really, we're the masters of that resource, not vice versa.

Doesn't mean we should declare a matter settled if it is not. Fans creating Intrepid insignia and kit decals won't alter what MA should say, any more than fans "generally agreeing" that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet would make that claim worthy of repeating in MA.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nyotarules]

Spock being the 'Jackie Robinson' of Starfleet never made sense to me, unless Vulcan joined the Federation in the 23rd century.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Spock being the 'Jackie Robinson' of Starfleet never made sense to me, unless Vulcan joined the Federation in the 22nd century.

Even though I tend to disregard the idea of Spock being the first or only Vulcan in Starfleet even prior to ENT, it's possible that he may have been the only Vulcan aboard the Enterprise (and given the lack of other alien personnel seen onscreen on the ship, he may even have been the only non-Human aboard, but there could have been a few others among those 400+ other crewmembers we just never saw).

It may have been a case that--even with the Intrepid--it may have been rare for Vulcans to join Starfleet during TOS. Most Vulcans may have opted for the Vulcan Science Academy or some other Vulcan-based service, relegating Starfleet to that "mostly Human" organization, or maybe something more akin to an international (Federation) agency. In that regard, the loss of the Intrepid may have been quite a blow to Starfleet's recruitment efforts on Vulcan...or could even have motivated more Vulcans to join in honor of that ship, IMO.

 

[Nyotarules]

Even though I tend to disregard the idea of Spock being the first or only Vulcan in Starfleet even prior to ENT, it's possible that he may have been the only Vulcan aboard the Enterprise (and given the lack of other alien personnel seen onscreen on the ship, he may even have been the only non-Human aboard, but there could have been a few others among those 400+ other crewmembers we just never saw).

It may have been a case that--even with the Intrepid--it may have been rare for Vulcans to join Starfleet during TOS. Most Vulcans may have opted for the Vulcan Science Academy or some other Vulcan-based service, relegating Starfleet to that "mostly Human" organization, or maybe something more akin to an international (Federation) agency. In that regard, the loss of the Intrepid may have been quite a blow to Starfleet's recruitment efforts on Vulcan...or could even have motivated more Vulcans to join in honor of that ship, IMO.

I can go with 'the only Vulcan on the Enterprise' since McCoy kept treating him like a novelty. The other alien crew were probably off screen, unless Starfleet had species only ships for cultural and physiological reasons and Spock was the exception to the rule. TAS showed other alien crew on the bridge, TOS must have had a tiny makeup budget but at least the movies and the spinoffs showed more diversity.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I can go with 'the only Vulcan on the Enterprise' since McCoy kept treating him like a novelty.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. In 79 episodes we never got even a passing reference to there being another alien crew member on board. You'd think it would've come up sometime.

 

[Nyotarules]

Yeah, I'd agree with that. In 79 episodes we never got even a passing reference to there being another alien crew member on board. You'd think it would've come up sometime.

True but with a crew of 400 how many did we see on a regular basis, apart from the unholy Trinity and the supporting cast? The 'specialist officer of the week' either was transferred off the ship or is still working somewhere on the Enterprise. (Apart from the one that left with Khan). Remember the pretty Lieutenant whose counterpart Kirk met in the Mirror world, its a shame we never saw her again since Kirk was very interested.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

True but with a crew of 400 how many did we see on a regular basis, apart from the unholy Trinity and the supporting cast? The 'specialist officer of the week' either was transferred off the ship or is still working somewhere on the Enterprise. (Apart from the one that left with Khan). Remember the pretty Lieutenant whose counterpart Kirk met in the Mirror world, its a shame we never saw her again since Kirk was very interested.

Yes, but an alien crewmember is much more unusual than seeing a pretty woman on the Enterprise.

 

[Nyotarules]

Yes, but an alien crewmember is much more unusual than seeing a pretty woman on the Enterprise.

They were all working in the back office or covering beta shift and night watch lol

 

[Tebok]

1. No saluting. Maybe not so odd, but interesting/notable that we never see Starfleet personnel ever engage in saluting. Ever!

In Encounter at Farpoint, in the opening sequence we see several crew members stopping and nodding as Captain Picard passed them. I think that was the only time they came close to acknowledging a senior ranks.

 

[The Wormhole]

Spock being the 'Jackie Robinson' of Starfleet never made sense to me, unless Vulcan joined the Federation in the 22nd century.

Vulcan did join the Federation in the 22nd century, which is also the same century the Federation was founded.

 

[Timo]

OTOH, the early assumption in TOS probably was that the Federation was founded in the same century when the adventures took place (which some writers took to be the 22nd century), and that Vulcans in the Federation were a phenomenon of that same century...

I can go with 'the only Vulcan on the Enterprise' since McCoy kept treating him like a novelty.

There could have been other Vulcans on that ship at those times when McCoy wasn't there, of course. Nothing wrong with, say, the Pike era novel Vulcan's Glory where Spock has several species-mates aboard, all at least as secretive as himself. It's McCoy specifically who's ignorant, not 2260s doctors or Enterprise doctors (because M'Benga).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nyotarules]

Vulcan did join the Federation in the 22nd century, which is also the same century the Federation was founded.

My error I meant the 23rd century!

 

[Nyotarules]

OTOH, the early assumption in TOS probably was that the Federation was founded in the same century when the adventures took place (which some writers took to be the 22nd century), and that Vulcans in the Federation were a phenomenon of that same century...

There could have been other Vulcans on that ship at those times when McCoy wasn't there, of course. Nothing wrong with, say, the Pike era novel Vulcan's Glory where Spock has several species-mates aboard, all at least as secretive as himself. It's McCoy specifically who's ignorant, not 2260s doctors or Enterprise doctors (because M'Benga).

Timo Saloniemi

That's right, even tho the novels (Vulcan's glory - one of my favs) are not canon they are free to explore and be a bit more 'realistic'. Watching the TV show the viewer has to pretend there are other aliens on board and that Starfleet Command is NOT 100% dominated by just Human male admirals etc even tho that is all we see as viewers.
I can go with the ignorant (and IMO borderline racist) McCoy. I do not believe that was the writers'/producers' intent with the character but if such an officer existed in 21st century armed forces USA, acting like he did in TOS to a fellow officer who is not white, how far would his career get?

 

[Longinus]

My pet theory is that in TOS era Starfleet was an umbrella organisation that comprised of space agencies of the member races (such as UESPA and Andorian Imperial Guard.) Enterprise was UESPA ship, and and thus manned mostly by humans.

 

[Nyotarules]

My pet theory is that in TOS era Starfleet was an umbrella organisation that comprised of space agencies of the member races (such as UESPA and Andorian Imperial Guard.) Enterprise was UESPA ship, and and thus manned mostly by humans.

Yeah that can work as well until someone took Starfleet too court for practicing 'Jim Crow' laws so by the time of the first ST movie all ships were desegregated. Spock protested not being the only token alien and left in a huff to pursue kolinahr lol