In fairness, the same is true with the collar rank insignia used in real-world militaries today.
Odd Things about Starfleet
- Thread starter David.Blue
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In fairness, the same is true with the collar rank insignia used in real-world militaries today.
...It's a highly desirable feature in combat. And Starfleet folks don't all stay aboard their ships, but expose themselves to combat situations where it would pay not to advertise one's rank or position.
Case in point, "Arena", where the Gorn apparently wanted to capture top starship officers and were able to snipe down a worthless redshirt escort to the officer contingent. Shirt color alone wasn't much of an indication of anything in the first season, so the lack of sleeve braid (and presence thereof on the others) probably condemned poor O'Herlihy.
Timo Saloniemi
Case in point, "Arena", where the Gorn apparently wanted to capture top starship officers and were able to snipe down a worthless redshirt escort to the officer contingent. Shirt color alone wasn't much of an indication of anything in the first season, so the lack of sleeve braid (and presence thereof on the others) probably condemned poor O'Herlihy.
Timo Saloniemi
On combat uniforms, yes, for the above mentioned tactical reasons that you don't want to make it too easy to target senior officers. Likewise, there's no saluting in combat areas. On standard duty uniforms, the epaulet insignia is usually easy to see from a distance.
Small rank insignia aboard ship is not that big a deal, because everyone knows everyone in their own department and further interactions are quickly sorted out. In WW2 the standard US Navy enlisted shipboard uniform in the Pacific was blue dungarees, which didn't show any rate at all, though CPOs could be told by their cap. And on smaller ships officers often didn't bother with their collar pins, either.
But ultimately insignia for every rank did exist, even if only worn on service and dress uniforms, and today everybody wears rank on the collar. Whereas in TOS and TNG it seems that everyone below a certain level wears the same insignia, that is, none. O'Brien later became an exception, but was anyone else ever spotted with non-officer insignia?
But ultimately insignia for every rank did exist, even if only worn on service and dress uniforms, and today everybody wears rank on the collar. Whereas in TOS and TNG it seems that everyone below a certain level wears the same insignia, that is, none. O'Brien later became an exception, but was anyone else ever spotted with non-officer insignia?
Sort of - the same dark pip that O'Brien wore in early TNG and early DS9 was spotted on at least one other E-D crew member, a teacher or Kindergarten manager IIRC. (Apart from that, there are noncom pins in the TOS movies, of course.)
It is sort of logical that a single dark pip would be the minimum for Chiefs to wear. O'Brien's eventual collar plate has three chevrons and two pips, suggesting that his first pip would have been the equivalent to a Petty Officer in today's USN earning his rocker and becoming part of the Chief Petty Officer clan. So if O'Brien won't wear his full chevrons-plus-pip(s) thing aboard the E-D, he may still wear this one as a "see, I've got a rocker (even though Starfleet doesn't believe in those)!" statement.
Timo Saloniemi
It is sort of logical that a single dark pip would be the minimum for Chiefs to wear. O'Brien's eventual collar plate has three chevrons and two pips, suggesting that his first pip would have been the equivalent to a Petty Officer in today's USN earning his rocker and becoming part of the Chief Petty Officer clan. So if O'Brien won't wear his full chevrons-plus-pip(s) thing aboard the E-D, he may still wear this one as a "see, I've got a rocker (even though Starfleet doesn't believe in those)!" statement.
Timo Saloniemi
It was nice that enlisted got some rank insignia, but I really didn't like that chevron. It looked really out of place next to the simple officer rank pips. And did anyone else ever wear such thing?
They could have extrapolated on that hollow pip idea instead. One hollow pip for Chief, two for Senior Chief and three for Master Chief.
Which may well be how it worked all along - the chevrons would usually be implicit, but the black pips would work the same be they directly on the collar, or on a plate with the chevrons.
The big mistake IMHO was removing one pip from O'Brien's collar when he finally "became" a Chief Petty Officer for "Realm of Fear". Just let him keep those two "Where Silence Has Lease" pips, but make them black at that point, pretending they "always" were black both, and you'd have a very logical Senior CPO indicator right there.
Or then give him another black pip in "Emissary", to support the notion that he got promoted.
Timo Saloniemi
The big mistake IMHO was removing one pip from O'Brien's collar when he finally "became" a Chief Petty Officer for "Realm of Fear". Just let him keep those two "Where Silence Has Lease" pips, but make them black at that point, pretending they "always" were black both, and you'd have a very logical Senior CPO indicator right there.
Or then give him another black pip in "Emissary", to support the notion that he got promoted.
Timo Saloniemi
Gillespie from Night Terrors wore a single dark pip, though their picture of him doesn't give a good look at his collar. Here's a better look. Memory Alpha claims he was a CPO, though I'm not sure if that was actual intent or they're just retconning him as one. Wouldn't surprise me if it was just a costuming error at the time and he was meant to be an ensign or something.
Cadet/Acting Chief Collins in DS9's Valiant wore the same pin.
That wasn't really indicated by the Gorn's offensive action against the landing party. Spock or Kirk could have easily been killed by the disruptor fire that was being laid down and Spock just missed being smoked by his tricorder. Also, the conversation between the two of them back aboard ship afterwards was seriously tilted towards the Gorn's wanting to eliminate Starfleet's only ship in the area, even if Spock's agreement required some vociferous urging from Kirk. Even the Gorn combatant towards the end of the combat, clearly stated that Cestus III and representatives of Starfleet otherwise were viewed as invaders to be destroyed, not that any were to be taken in hand for study, torture, ransom, or any other purpose. I just don't think such a supposition is really supported by any evidence. The fact that Lang and O'Herlihy were the casualties, simply illustrated the absolute danger all of the party were subject to, but that they were preferred targets, again, I think doesn't bear scrutiny.
That the entire landing party didn't die the very second they beamed down already establishes that the Gorn wanted discriminate rather than indiscriminate death. Killing the whole bunch at once would have been trivially easy - just use one big bomb, or snipe at all of the people in quick succession when they are way too far from nearest cover. Kirk, Spock and the no-names stood no chance of survival against an attempt to kill them. But they did stand a slim chance against an attempt to capture them!
Conversely, if O'Herlihy weren't specifically targeted for what he was, the Gorn sniper would simply have missed him. There's no way for the shot to connect if the shooter isn't capable of making pretty detailed target analysis on the side.
...A goal in no way in conflict with capturing her top officers.
Really, if this was an ambush to kill the heroes, it was the worst in the history of ambushing since Grok the Big-Clubbed decided to trap Mog the Big-Fisted and his clan by dropping a cobweb on them.
Timo Saloniemi
The only time I saw a salute in Star Trek was TOS 'Mirror,Mirror' in the Mirrorverse.
Assuming you mean Starfleet officers saluting (as TNG did feature Romulans saluting) then you should also include Enterprise MU episodes, which do feature Mirror Starfleet saluting as well.
Kirk salutes the admiral in Final Frontier though it may have been some sort of joke between friends. Also there was a dropped scene from Balance of Terror, I think there is a screencap of it upthread. So maybe the tradition still exists but is rarely used?
Well, it really wasn't just female uniforms. Scotty wore a kilt sometimes on TOS, other males wore skants on TNG, and males in catsuits abounded in TMP!
I always assumed Scotty's kilt was one of those exceptions Starfleet allows for cultural purposes, like Worf's baldric, not an official part of the Starfleet uniform.
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