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Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Continuing Arc

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Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Neroon said:
Hirogen Alpha said:
^^
It was needed tonight. My marathon actually ended with The River of Souls (SiL came before), so the kleenex were needed for another reason, but more on that tomorrow. It's late.
Oh THIS ought to be good! :lol:

"The River of Souls"

Oh, I don't think I'd use good and River of Souls in the same sentence. Crap, I just did, didn't I?

To be fair, it didn't start off bad. For the first 20 minutes or so, I was convinced that all the fan whining was just that. Ian Mcshane's character is interesting, and Corwin gets some funny stuff to do (the happy bat is probably one of the few bits of humor that doesn't fall completely flat in RoS).

Then things started to fall apart. For one, the holo-brothel story doesn't go anywhere, and isn't that funny (the best part is holo-Lochley out of uniform, and even that was done better, and funnier, on Deep Space Nine when Kira had Quark's head in the holodeck). It's just padding, which there's a lot of in this "movie." JMS may write books and teach courses about screenwriting, but the fact is there's not 90 minutes of story here. At the 45 minute mark, I started looking at the clock. It just goes on, and on, and on, stretching out a premise that isn't really treading new ground on season one's "Soul Hunter"

Martin Sheen isn't bad here, but he isn't good, either. I'm immediatly reminded of a story Nick Meyer tells about Star Trek II, where Ricardo Montalbon was overacting during his first day as Khan, and Meyer didn't know what to do. Timidly, he told Montalbon to take it down a notch. Montalbon thanked him, saying, "Thank you, I need direction" or something along those lines. I can't help but feel that Janet Greek was in a similar situation here, only with Martin Sheen, she was too much of a fan of his work to say anything. The DVD feature seems to support this, as everyone heaps praise on Sheen.

Now, I'm a big fan of him as an actor, but he's clearly operating without a director, leading some scenes (like his entrance) to be painfully over-the-top, and others to be well-acted. He certainly has more to do than Ian McShane, who after appearing in the first third of the movie, drops of the map and is a practical non-presence for the rest of the show. He doesn't even get to say goodbye, Garibaldi does that for him in the end.

Speaking of which, it is nice to see Garibaldi fitting into his role that he assume at the end of season five as head of Edgars industries. It's also nice to see Lochley starting to fit into her role as the sole commanding presence on Babylon 5. But, that doesn't fill 90 minutes.

And I have to wonder why Richard Biggs is even in this movie. I was hoping we'd get to see more of the good doctor, especially since Richard Biggs' passing means he won't appear again, outside of In The Beginning (which I'm saving for the end) and one episode of Crusade. :( All we get is pseudo-Franklin for one scene (with some very cheesy effects during Lochley's "death."

Grade: A very generous... C
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Well, I didn't mean that the movie itself was necessarily good... just your reaction to it. :D
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Yeah, that's what I gathered. :D Legend of the Rangers came in the mail today, so it should be another fun-filled evening of Babylon 5 soon. :p

The Psi Corp Trilogy is rockin' though. I really like the first book, which is surprising considering that Babylon 5 seems to usually fall apart for me when it moves away from our series regulars.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

In some ways, I really consider the Psi-Corps trilogy to be the best of the three. It really delves into a fascinating construction of the origins of the Corps, and all pretty much without any of the series regulars.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"The Legend of the Rangers: To Live and Die in Starlight"

Wow... this one gets so much flack around here that you'd think it was the worst movie ever made, but the fact of the matter is I found it far better than "The River of Souls," better than the original Babylon 5 pilot, "The Gathering," and even better than a good share of Babylon 5's fifth season. Now, does it have some problems? Yes--and I'll detail those in a moment--but overall, I couldn't help but feel a sense of fun and adventure that the Babylon 5 universe has been lacking.

First, the bad parts:

-The script. This has to be JMS' worst outing yet. The dialogue is terrible--even the very welcome Andreas Katsulas has some trouble spewing it out. And the portents of things that would have come (had it gone to series) retread over a number of things Babylon 5 has done at great lengths before. Most obvious, and the one I'm going to harp on, is "The Hand." The bastard/love-child of the Thirdspace aliens and the Shadows, they're not very original or impressive. And, although they're supposed to be more fearsome than the Shadows, they don't look it. David and his crew manage to take them out with conventional weapons (and quite a bit of ingenuity). I wonder, if this had gone to series, would they have connected these new aliens to the Thirdspace aliens (since both are an ancient enemy that arrived from another dimension). I guess we'll never know. And the plot point about Rangers never retreating is entirely illogical and against everything we've come to see before.

-The weapons system. Conceptually, it works, but in actuality, it's laughable. The weapons officer is physically exhausted after only a few minutes, and to replace her would seemingly mean powering down the weapons system during precious moments. Even she notes that she's beginning to feel like a gopher. They would have had to have changed this for series, because it looks laughable, and doesn't make sense. It's too hard to operate.

-The acting/directing. It's painful in the opening minutes. Thankfully, it gets far better, but during the pre-credits teaser it's bad, bad, b-a-d. Some of the worst stuff I've ever seen. I want to share this with my brother, but I know he's not going to get through the beginning. As it stands, the teaser (and a few other smaller moments) are unacceptably bad in their performance, probably stemming from the often awful dialogue.

But, all that being said, there's potential here. The haunted ship, a relic of the Earth-Minbari War and the Shadow War, is a great place to set a series. The production values are pretty good--certainly far better than anything I ever saw on Babylon 5. The cast isn't great--composed mostly of lightweights from other productions--but the lead, David, and his first officer, Dulan, have wonderful chemistry. It would have been interseting to see their friendship play out over the course of a series. The weapons officer is annoying as hell, though. The Drazi, like all the others of his species we've met, is entirely one note. The others aren't really explored, but have potential I suppose.

Still... I liked it.

Mainly, through all the cheesiness, LOTR succeeds because it isn't what so many of the other, poorer installments of Babylon 5 have been: self-important. There's a lot of room for fun, and humor, which I'm happy to see at this point.

Finally, though his make-up seems a little off somehow, G'Kar is there in performance and presence. Knowing that Katsulas has gone beyond the rim should make me feel sad, but I can't help but feel joy that in his last entry in the Babylon 5 universe, G'Kar went out with a smile and a few words of advice for the next generation. Plus, that last shot of Babylon 5 is a great way to end things.

So... fearing lynching...

Grade: B
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I rather liked Legend Of The Rangers it's the typical way JMS starts his storylines slow, vague and learning the characters but I do think that if it'd had gone to series it might've been a good one. And I would've like to have seen how he would've finished the Crusade storyline in Rangers as he talked about doing.

River Of Souls was pretty close to a two part Star Trek story but Tracy Scoggins looked good in it. :drool:
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
I don't think Star Trek would have made a two-parter that was so padded as The River of Souls with such a meaningless and boring subplot.

And how would Rangers have finished up Crusade's story? I thought Rangers took place in 2265, and Crusade doesn't start until 2267. So, it would have taken at least two season of LOTR by my count to even reach Crusade's position in the timeline. I suppose that could have worked. If only the sci-fi channel wasn't so stupid... You know, I'm getting awfully tired of saying that.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I don't think Star Trek would have made a two-parter that was so padded as The River of Souls with such a meaningless and boring subplot.

I thought Voyager's Flesh And Blood comes close, but I think I liked Flesh And Blood more than River Of Souls.

And how would Rangers have finished up Crusade's story? I thought Rangers took place in 2265, and Crusade doesn't start until 2267. So, it would have taken at least two season of LOTR by my count to even reach Crusade's position in the timeline. I suppose that could have worked. If only the sci-fi channel wasn't so stupid... You know, I'm getting awfully tired of saying that.

http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16179&query=Rangers%20Crusade

>Assuming that "Legend of the Rangers" leads to a new TV series,
>wouldn't the events you'll tell there meet or coincide whith those depicted
>in "Crusade" in the short term?

Logically speaking, yes.

>How are you going to manage that?

With incredible elegance.

jms

;)
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"Babylon 5: A Call To Arms"

This episode has a lot going for it, and really deserves the highest marks, if not for three things.

(1) The music. I'm not always the biggest fan of Christopher Franke's work on the show--some episodes have better scores than others. But, his work never took me out of the moment to the point where Evan Chen's music does. It feels like watching a movie without the music most of the time, since its so minimalist in design that it's almost like there isn't any music at all. Certainly the final moments aren't as powerful as Franke would have made them. In a moment that should be exciting, it's almost confusing because of the music.

(2) The posoning of the well. I hear this was tacked on by TNT (true?). It feels tacked on. The idea could work, but in script and on screen it just comes out of nowhere. Maybe a consistent musical score could have helped this work. Did I mention the music totally blows?

(3) Ramming speed. This was supposed to be an exciting twist, but I sure saw it a mile away. Actually, as soon as Tony Todd contacted his wife and daugter, it was pretty much sealed for me. I thought to myself, I think he's going to ram the Drakh and save the day in the end. And sure enough... A little more subtlety would have been nice on this, I guess.

That's about it, really. Everything else is right on. Zack gets a small, but nice appearance. Lochley is about as good as her character's going to get (which is to say, not great--I'm not a fan of the actress or the character to be honest). Sheridan gets some nice moments, and so does Garibaldi (better here than in River of... well, let's not go there). And the two newcomers are nice. I'll be curious to see how Crusade turns out with them. I'll be watching War Zone first, after that, it's anybody's guess.

Grade: A-
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Evan Chen's score definitely deviates from Franke's... which I do prefer, btw. Even so, I find that Chen's score has grown on me over the years. I bought the soundtrack back when it first fcame out. It's jarring to say the least, yet I give him credit for trying a different path. THere are some passages throughout the Crusade series itself which work VERY well. Others.... not so much.

BTW... you have seen Carrie Dobro (actress who played Dureena) in two B5 episodes. Do you rememebr which ones? ;)
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
(2) The posoning of the well. I hear this was tacked on by TNT (true?).

Not exactly, but sort of. This has to do with how the storyline for Crusade evolved over time, as gleaned from the script books and other sources. It's probably better not to get too much into this until after you've watched Crusade. Once you've done so, I can give you a more detailed explanation.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Here's a MIDI which claims to be the Call To Arms music. Personally, I have a hard time reconciling it with the movie, but it's in the same style and, I think, shows off how well the style can work....sometimes.

http://www.third-space.net/download/?duid=36
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Neroon said:
BTW... you have seen Carrie Dobro (actress who played Dureena) in two B5 episodes. Do you rememebr which ones? ;)

A quick trip to IMDB and... I still can't recognize her. In Racing Mars and Exogenesis? I guess I'll pick up on that on my third viewing, but I imagine it'll be at least 18 months before that adventure begins.

Oh, and I've already offered a few comments around these forums, but I finished:

"Babylon 5: The Psi Corp Trilogy: Dark Genesis: The Birth of the Psi Corp*"

*I believe the acronym for this book would be the easily remembered "B5PCTDGBPC." Seriously, what's with the long title that I may have exaggerated because of the long title.

I loved this book, which surprised me a great deal, since it doesn't deal with any of our regular characters, and Bester only appears as a baby in a few scenes. Most of the characters are just so well defined (the Senator doesn't last 200 pages, yet he's incredibly memorable). I enjoyed the tie-ins to the future, with Bester (a nod to how he got the name of a sci-fi author) and Lyta (foreshadowing of her Vorlon alterations). Could have used without the Ironeheart and the Winter characters though, and the other names that I undoubtedly missed. The Psi Corp should be a pretty large organization, shouldn't it? Plus, there was a whole chapter devoted to locations in my homestate (the author lives in the northwest), so that gets it extra points. A great read.

Grade: A

I just wish the second book would come in the mail. I ordered the whole lot of (canon, in print) books from Deep Discount, and they've all arrived except for that one. Shipping problems of some sort. Out of curiosity, what period does it cover (I know the third book takes place after the series)? Is it as good as the first, since it will likely use more established characters?
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Lindley said:
Here's a MIDI which claims to be the Call To Arms music. Personally, I have a hard time reconciling it with the movie, but it's in the same style and, I think, shows off how well the style can work....sometimes.

http://www.third-space.net/download/?duid=36

Oh, I should have clarified that there are a few times that the music works wonderfully (a few scenes with the thief on Babylon 5 come to mind). But other times, like the final battle, and the motif used with the Excalibur, were totally inappropriate, IMO.

I suppose it was a good idea to go in a different direction than Franke, but this isn't it (IMO).
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
Out of curiosity, what period does it cover (I know the third book takes place after the series)? Is it as good as the first, since it will likely use more established characters?

I don't have the books close by so I can't give you the dates but it deals with Bester growing up in the Corps. It's a compelling read and look into the formation of that character.

Jan
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

The second book is all about the life of Bester, and it goes from his childhood right up until just before the timeframe of the start of the series. I enjoyed both of the first two Psi Corps books a great deal. The third one I didn't think was nearly as good. It deals with Garibaldi's pursuit of Bester (in order to get revenge on him for his brainwashing in Season 4) many years later. I was hoping for something a little more dramatic in the wrapup of this storyline, but it didn't unfold in a terribly surprising or dramatic way. No big surprises. (But then, I had the same feeling about the end of the Centauri Trilogy, and IIRC, you liked that a good deal more than I did.)
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

chrisspringob said:I was hoping for something a little more dramatic in the wrapup of this storyline, but it didn't unfold in a terribly surprising or dramatic way. No big surprises.

The big surprise for me was that by the end of the story, I was actually rooting for Bester to escape.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Well, onto Crusade...

"War Zone"

I've heard a lot of bad things about this pilot, which was forced onto JMS by TNT. I didn't think it was that bad. Sure, the CGI stinks, but that's not unusual. Babylon 5 has always pioneered technology before it was truly ready, I think. As for the characters, Gideon is interesting enough to hold my attention, as is his first officer (played nicely by Daniel Dae Kim). The thief is and Galen are about the same as they were in the previous movie, but that's not a bad thing. I did like Galen and Gideon's meeting at the end of this episode, and the history between them. I assume that incident will be further featured in the Techno-Mage books? Ah, who else... The doctor doesn't have much of a character yet, but I'll give her time. And Max, the archeologist, is certainly a pain in the ass. But in a good way.

And the stock footage blew. Stupid TNT. Reminded me of Space on the X-Files. In a bad way. Still, this episode was a nice introduction to everything, and even the oft-ridiculed fist fight in the opening makes sense in the context of things. If there's one problem, it's that so much exposition has to be let out that it's impossible for much else to happen. Would have worked better as a two hour episode. Oh well.

Grade: B+
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
I did like Galen and Gideon's meeting at the end of this episode, and the history between them. I assume that incident will be further featured in the Techno-Mage books?

Their previous meeting will definitely be addressed again. Can't really say anything more than that at this time.

"War Zone" is either my least favorite Crusade episode, or it's tied for least favorite with "The Rules of the Game". So if you like it, then I think you'll almost certainly like the series as a whole.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"The Rules of the Game" does have one redeeming quality: it stars the late Tim Choate (Zathras). :D
 
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