Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Continuing Arc

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Each Night I Dream Of Home
Because I'm watching Crusade in "chronological" order, this is the first episode with Lochley on Crusade. It was also very nice to see Franklin again. It's a shame that they didn't get a scene together, but what can you do. This is more of a plot based episode, then being about the characters, but I found it very good and interesting.

The Long Road
Peter Woodward acting with his dad. It was very fun to see them both acting opposite each other. I liked the concept of a medieval planet, although it's been done in Star Trek numerous times. Again, this is mostly a plot-based episode, rather than a character one.

The Well Of Forever
Excellent episode. My favourite episode of Crusade so far (with 5 episodes left). Unlike the previous two episodes, this episode was purely character. And where the B5 franchise excels, is with its character episodes, with the plot developing because of character. Matheson got a lot more layers in this episode. It was great seeing Psi Corps again, they're still just as evil as ever. Galen also had a very nice character plot about the titular Well of Forever. Lots of character questions for the future got asked at the end of this episode. It's killing me that I won't be able to see all these characters' arcs to their finish.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

When you're done with the show, you might want to read the Technomage Trilogy books by Jeanne Cavelos. That goes into more detail on some of these characters although not to the completion you want. Still, it's a bit more fulfillment

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Mal said:

Neroon said:
Okay, let's make it: Wednesday, March 28
at 9:00pm EDT. We can set that as the gathering time, with an eye towards starting the episode at 9:15pm

Wedneday March 28, 2007 at 9pm eastern time, 6 pacific.


count me in.

:thumbsup:

I'm with you, too. :thumbsup:

Can't wait.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

The Path Of Sorrows
The last episode, The Well Of Forever, I called the best Crusade episode, so far. Well, that wasn't on the top for long, as this episode, The Path Of Sorrows, is now my favourite episode of Crusade. We learn so much about the backstories of 3 characters: Gideon, Matheson, and Galen. All of them make sense from a character standpoint. We see how Gideon came into possession of the Apocalypse Box, and how he's connected to Galen. We see Matheson working for the Psi Corps, eventually becoming an accomplice to the Resistance. We see Galen and Isabelle, who we first heard of in the previous episode, and we learn a little bit more about their relationship. Excellent character episode.

Patterns Of The Soul
It's nice to see us Canadians have our own planet. I could clearly see Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and the St. Lawrence river . This is an interesting episode, especially for Dureena who finds out she isn't alone after all. But at the same time, the rest of her people are infected with the virus, and they only have one year to live. It was very interesting that the cybernetic implant humans were deliberately infected. Is Earth turning into the bad guy again, just like in B5?

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Interesting that you like "The Well of Forever" and "Pattersn of the Soul". Both of those were written by Fiona Avery.

 

[Jan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Tom Riker said:
The Path Of Sorrows
The last episode, The Well Of Forever, I called the best Crusade episode, so far. Well, that wasn't on the top for long, as this episode, The Path Of Sorrows, is now my favourite episode of Crusade.

The Path of Sorrows was one of the episodes JMS played at a convention before Crusade aired but after the news of the cancellation had come out. JMS said that TNT simply *hated* that episode. They told him that 'nobody's interested in all that backstory'. I'm glad he fought for it because I love this one.

Jan

 

[Can]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I think "The Path of Sorrows" is especially important because we see closure of Telepath Conflict once and for all. In fact Patricia Tallman would have a guest role in that episode ( during flashback of Matheson about his Psi-Corps time ) but it didn't happen.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Ruling From The Tomb
If there's one thing you can count on with Peter David, it's humour. I love his Star Trek books, and they're full of humour. Same with this episode. Despite the darkness and seriousness of the A-plot, there are many lines in hear that just make you laugh out loud. These final three episodes have all fearured Eilerson prominently, and in this episode particularly, I liked the new insights into his character. I really like his chemistry with Nafeel as well. Their dance was hysterical.

The Rules Of The Game
It sure is nice to see the station once again. Gideon and Lochley make a good pair. It's too bad I won't see this relationship develop further. For the second episode in a row, we get a whole lot of Eilerson back story. He's my favourite character from the very beginning, but the first few episodes were painting him as more of a pain. Now, he's still annoying, but he's also a good guy, and one you can sympathize with. I loved how he dealt with the loan shark problem. It's always nice to see a bully beaten.

Appearances And Other Deceits
Crusade goes out with a great episode! It is fun seeing Mr. Welles again, now, seemingly, on the "good" side. There are lots of great action sequences and great character moments too. I really missed seeing Galen in these last 3 episodes, but what can you do? Then there's the uniforms. What's the deal here? Which uniforms were really the new uniforms for the series? The grey ones or the black ones? If the grey ones actually came first, which makes sense from a character standpoint, did JMS already know while filming this episode that those first 5 episodes with the grey uniforms would be airing out of order?

I liked Crusade a lot, and am very sad that there were only 13 episodes produced. I believe that if it was allowed to finish its entire 5-year arc, I would have liked it more than Babylon 5. Granted, I'm a sucker for station-based shows, considering I love DS9 and now B5, but this arc was very intriguing and I've always had a love for shows dealing with exploration of space. For example, if Voyager had the character development and arc format that DS9 had, it would easily be my favourite television show of all time. I still like Voyager as it is now, but it could have been so much more. Crusade felt like that kind of show. Although Crusade did have a number of standalone episodes within these 13 episodes, there was always something that moved the whole arc forward. It was very similar to B5's Season 1, which also had a lot of standalones, yet later on in the series' run, the true importance of lots of those first episodes were revealed. I liked every single main character on Crusade. All of them had interesting backstories and intriguing mysteries that needed to be solved. I really hope that Babylon 5: The Lost Tales gives us another Crusade adventure, to tie everything up on this side. I really want to see these characters again. (I know that Galen's in the first Lost Tales, but I want to see everyone back again. Including the Excalibur.)

My favourite characters
1) Max Eilerson
2) Galen
3) Matthew Gideon
4) John Matheson

But really, I like every one of them.

So this ends the Babylon 5 saga for me, until July. Despite seeing another series come to an end, and feeling sad about that, I'm also looking forward to the continuing of the story. I can't wait to discuss Voices In The Dark with all of you. And this time, we'll all be watching it for the first time .

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

In "Ruling From the Tomb", when Dureena bemoans the fact that she's "downing in an ocean of testosterone", ya gotta love it when Max comes back with "That's okay, you're equipped with flotation devices". (sic)

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Tom Riker said:
Then there's the uniforms. What's the deal here? Which uniforms were really the new uniforms for the series? The grey ones or the black ones? If the grey ones actually came first, which makes sense from a character standpoint, did JMS already know while filming this episode that those first 5 episodes with the grey uniforms would be airing out of order?

The order you watched the episodes in is pretty close to the production order. "Racing the Night", "The Memory of War", "The Needs of Earth", "Visitors From Down the Street", and "Each Night I Dream of Home" (the "gray uniform episodes") were the first five episodes produced. After those five episodes were filmed, TNT started interfering with the production a lot more. They mandated a bunch of changes, with the one change that a lot of fans liked being the changing of the uniforms to black. TNT didn't like the gray uniform episodes, but since they'd already been filmed, they were stuck with them. So they mandated that there would be a bunch of black uniform episodes aired first, then they air the gray uniform episodes, then they'd switch back to black. So "Appearances and Other Deceits" was given this subplot to explain the switch from gray to black. Then episode #14 (which was never filmed, as the show was cancelled) was to include a "laundry accident" that would explain the shift back to black episodes.

Incidentally, you mention how you're sorry that this is all you'll ever get to see of the Crusade story. Well, there were three episodes that were written (two by JMS; one by Fiona Avery) but never produced because the show was cancelled. All three scripts were available online a few years ago, and the two JMS scripts advanced the storyline tremendously and threw it into an unexpected direction. The scripts are no longer available by legal means, but JMS will probably come out with a Crusade script book some time within the next year or two, so you'll be able to buy them.

 

[Can]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Tom Riker said:
Ruling From The Tomb
If there's one thing you can count on with Peter David, it's humour. I love his Star Trek books, and they're full of humour. Same with this episode. Despite the darkness and seriousness of the A-plot, there are many lines in hear that just make you laugh out loud. These final three episodes have all fearured Eilerson prominently, and in this episode particularly, I liked the new insights into his character. I really like his chemistry with Nafeel as well. Their dance was hysterical.

The Rules Of The Game
It sure is nice to see the station once again. Gideon and Lochley make a good pair. It's too bad I won't see this relationship develop further. For the second episode in a row, we get a whole lot of Eilerson back story. He's my favourite character from the very beginning, but the first few episodes were painting him as more of a pain. Now, he's still annoying, but he's also a good guy, and one you can sympathize with. I loved how he dealt with the loan shark problem. It's always nice to see a bully beaten.

Appearances And Other Deceits
Crusade goes out with a great episode! It is fun seeing Mr. Welles again, now, seemingly, on the "good" side. There are lots of great action sequences and great character moments too. I really missed seeing Galen in these last 3 episodes, but what can you do? Then there's the uniforms. What's the deal here? Which uniforms were really the new uniforms for the series? The grey ones or the black ones? If the grey ones actually came first, which makes sense from a character standpoint, did JMS already know while filming this episode that those first 5 episodes with the grey uniforms would be airing out of order?

I liked Crusade a lot, and am very sad that there were only 13 episodes produced. I believe that if it was allowed to finish its entire 5-year arc, I would have liked it more than Babylon 5. Granted, I'm a sucker for station-based shows, considering I love DS9 and now B5, but this arc was very intriguing and I've always had a love for shows dealing with exploration of space. For example, if Voyager had the character development and arc format that DS9 had, it would easily be my favourite television show of all time. I still like Voyager as it is now, but it could have been so much more. Crusade felt like that kind of show. Although Crusade did have a number of standalone episodes within these 13 episodes, there was always something that moved the whole arc forward. It was very similar to B5's Season 1, which also had a lot of standalones, yet later on in the series' run, the true importance of lots of those first episodes were revealed. I liked every single main character on Crusade. All of them had interesting backstories and intriguing mysteries that needed to be solved. I really hope that Babylon 5: The Lost Tales gives us another Crusade adventure, to tie everything up on this side. I really want to see these characters again. (I know that Galen's in the first Lost Tales, but I want to see everyone back again. Including the Excalibur.)

My favourite characters
1) Max Eilerson
2) Galen
3) Matthew Gideon
4) John Matheson

But really, I like every one of them.

So this ends the Babylon 5 saga for me, until July. Despite seeing another series come to an end, and feeling sad about that, I'm also looking forward to the continuing of the story. I can't wait to discuss Voices In The Dark with all of you. And this time, we'll all be watching it for the first time .

Tom , how do you summerize and review Babylon 5 saga and universe ? What do you think about writing of JMS , events occued in story , characters , their development. What is your opinion about them in general ?

 

[MyCylon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I haven't been around the board for a while (visiting CeBIT) so I'm just hopping right in here with a brief comment on The River of Souls which, after three or four separate viewing sessions I finally finished tonight.

Boy, did that suck.

Honestly, I really didn't find anything redeeming in this at all. You could build an interesting story around the concept of a mistake the size of the one the Soul Hunters make here but it's just not pulled off in this case IMHO.

The storytelling just seemed all over the place with no proper pacing, acting seemed weak throughout (which is a shame with someone like Martin Sheen around) and don't even get me started with the attempts at humour here. Also, you really could tell that characters such as Londo and G'Kar were missing plus you had others who just seemed to be hanging around most of the time such as Garibaldi.
In the end, I can only say I'm glad I've put this B5 movie behind me. It really didn't have any of the things I enjoy about B5 which is a real shame. I'll be watching A Call to Arms next, and I'm hopeful that will be quite a bit more entertaining.

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Sucks to hear about River of Souls, considering its one of the few things I have left of Babylon 5 to watch. I guess that's what I get for watching all the good stuff first.

Everyone still on for the live commentary on Sleeping in Light next week? Rounded up anyone from the other forums so we can have a B5 bash?

And I'm watching everything from the beginning next week, starting with The Gathering. I'll have my second round reviews plus the response of another first time Babylon Five viewer who I'm watching it all with when that starts happening.

 

[Lindley]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Random bit of continuity: Thirdspace marks the reappearance of the small-time crook first seen in season 1's "Grail".

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"River of Souls" was like "Thirdspace" in that it was a neat, different idea that just didn't come off as planned.

 

[Can]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I like "Thirdspace". It had some nice bits of continuty in main storyline. But I agree about "River of Souls". It was mediocre at best...

 

[DWF]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Lindley said:
Random bit of continuity: Thirdspace marks the reappearance of the small-time crook first seen in season 1's "Grail".

Yeah I'm still wondering what happened to his brothers Darryl though.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I think they work at a golf course in New England....

 

[DWF]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Anything for a buck an a half.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"Sleeping In Light" running commentary:

Wedneday March 28, 2007 at 9pm eastern time, 6 pacific.


Just a reminder and invitation to everyone, to meet here in this thread at that date & time.