Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Continuing Arc

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
^^
I thought as much. It's cool little touches like that that will make this series one with a hell of a lot of re-watch value.

its one of the few shows that gets better every time you watch it. that makes it more like a great book than a great tv show.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I'll be starting Crusade soon, and I was wondering what order I should watch the shows in? There are two choices:

JMS ORDER
Racing the Night
The Needs of Earth
The Memory of War
The Long Road
Visitors from Down the Street
The Well of Forever
Each Night I Dream of Home
Patterns of the Soul
The Path of Sorrows
Ruling from the Tomb
The Rules of the Game
War Zone
Appearances and Other Deceits

CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER
War Zone
Racing the Night
The Memory of War
The Needs of Earth
Visitors from Down the Street
Each Night I Dream of Home
The Long Road
The Well of Forever
The Path of Sorrows
Patterns of the Soul
Ruling from the Tomb
The Rules of the Game
Appearances and Other Deceits

I'm leaning more towards the chronological order, but what do you experts recommend?

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
I haven't seen it, but from what I've heard, JMS' order makes more sense story-wise, but the chronological order presents a solution for the problem with a switch in uniforms half-way through. So, depends if you want visual or story continuity. I think I'm leaning towards the second, but tell me how your experience goes.

And with that, I'm headed out to spend the next 10 days or so with my aunt. I'll have my B5 DVDs in tow, so hopefully I'll catch up to SiL. I don't know if I'll watch it or wait until the live commentary (which is going to be cool). Time will tell. At least homework and new BSG/Dresden will hold me over the weekend.

 

[Lindley]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

There is no perfect order for Crusade, unfortunately. Any way you slice it, there will be continuity problems.

 

[Can]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Chronogical order is better. War Zone starts all story. But. you should watch "Call to Arms" first. That is pilot episode of Crusade.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Although I can understand the reasoning on chronological order, I much prefer JMS's order. In this case, I think the original vision for the series comes through more clearly that way. Yes, there will be some slight continuity trickiness, but imho they're easily dismissed.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Can said:
Chronogical order is better. War Zone starts all story. But. you should watch "Call to Arms" first. That is pilot episode of Crusade.

I'll be watching Legend Of The Rangers and A Call To Arms tonight. I'll be starting Crusade, in chronological order, sometime on the weekend. The reason I'm picking chronological order is because the episode War Zone is third last in JMS' order, yet isn't that the episode where they get the ship?

 

[Lindley]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Yes. JMS had originally intended to start the series in media res, but TNT demanded a more traditional introduction.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Well, they get the ship in "A Call to Arms".

Afer you've watched "Crusade" in the chronological order, try the JMS order and let us know which you like better

Incidentally, I'm reading throough Vol 10 of the JMS script books, which includes discussion on the negotiations with TNT for season 5 and Crusade. I'll fill you in.

 

[Lindley]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

It depends which "they" you're interested in---the ISA, or the Crusade crew.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

True that. If you're talking continuity with the series itself, then "War Zone".

Call me a stick-in-the-mud, but I jsut plain don't like the idea of being forced to have "War Zone" as the lead off when it seems so completely unnecessary. "Racing the Night" was a magnificent way to start it off: hot the ground running, so to speak.

Maybe that's why I tend to think of "A Call To Arms" as 'where they got the ship', because for me that is where the story begins. It's the version of "Crusade" that doesn't need 'War Zone'.

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I'm actually not sure where you got the "Chronological Order" from, as it doesn't match either JMS's order or the airdate order or the production order. That said, what you list as "Chronological Order" is actually a pretty good order. (Though there is no perfect order that maintains perfect continuity.) I'm definitely not a fan of JMS's order, nor am I a fan of the original broadcast order.

"Chronological Order", as you define it, is pretty close to the production order, but with "War Zone" moved up to the begining. That's a pretty good way to view it, although you might also consider moving up "Ruling From the Tomb" to some time before "Each Night I Dream of Home". That eliminates a continuity error with Lochley's character. In fact, doing it that way may very well eliminate every continuity error except for the unexplained uniform changes (which you just have to live with).

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

the whole thing is fucked up. no matter what order you watch Crusade, there are real problems. that said, i never liked the damn show before. but i just re-watched it last week, and i have to say, i'm really sad it didn't survive.

question: am i the only one who hates galen?????????

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

chrisspringob said:
I'm actually not sure where you got the "Chronological Order" from, as it doesn't match either JMS's order or the airdate order or the production order.

The Lurker's Guide

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Well, like I said, puttin "Ruling from the Tomb" that late creates continuity problems with Lochley. But otherwise, that order is pretty good.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

chrisspringob said:
Well, like I said, puttin "Ruling from the Tomb" that late creates continuity problems with Lochley. But otherwise, that order is pretty good.

I'd still rather go with the order in which the series creator originally conceived it. JMS is no god, but the show was his brainchild, so it only makes sense to view it in the way it was designed from the outset.

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Neroon said:

chrisspringob said:
Well, like I said, puttin "Ruling from the Tomb" that late creates continuity problems with Lochley. But otherwise, that order is pretty good.

I'd still rather go with the order in which the series creator originally conceived it. JMS is no god, but the show was his brainchild, so it only makes sense to view it in the way it was designed from the outset.

But the way JMS explained it at the time, it sounded like "the JMS order" is something he came up with on the fly during a phone conversation with SFC (when they were getting ready to broadcast the reruns). I don't think it's necessarily what he would have favored at the time he was making the series. If you want what JMS would likely have favored at the time he was actually making the series, you'd probably get closer by using the production order, but pulling "Racing the Night" up to the front of the line.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I'd be interested i reading that conversation. Is there a link anywhere?

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Here is the JMS post I was thinking of:

http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16139&query=crusade

So SFC asked me what the preferred author's order would be...and that's how they've structured it, costume change be damned. Yes, there will be some dialogue glitches now, because we looped a few things to try and do least violence to the chronology of previously shot shows...but from an overall story perspective, this is the preferred order (as best I could remember it when they called and asked).

That last parenthetical makes it sound like SFC called him up, and JMS came up with the order on the spot. This was two years after the show was produced. I'm not overly confident that the order is exactly what JMS would have intended back in 1999. And even in 2001, JMS may have prefered a different order if he had the chance to sit down and think about it--to rewatch all the episodes, and figure out what makes the most sense. But instead, apparently, this was what he came up with in the middle of a phone conversation.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Maybe.... but for some reason that phrasing doesn't make me think he made up on the fly. It sounds more to me like he was caught somewhat off-guard and just had to pull it from memory.