Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Continuing Arc

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Jan said:
Tom Riker, if you want the greatest impact, watch Sleeping in Light directly after Objects at Rest. Objects in Motion, Objects at Rest and Sleeping in Light are almost as much a trilogy (emotionally) as Messages from Earth, Point of No Return and Severed Dreams were.

Trust us, there's no real story reason to watch it the way you posted and every reason emotionally to watch it this way.

Jan

Thanks Jan and Lindley for your suggestions. I will watch Sleeping In Light after Objects At Rest and before River Of Souls.

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
^^
That sounds great. Now that I think about it, didn't JMS say that he had another idea for a spin-off that was ultimately rejected before Crusade was given the greenlight? Maybe that had to do with the Telepath War.

From the beginning (as in, even before Season 1), JMS said that there was a side story that could potentially be used for a spinoff series, if the show proved popular enough to merit one. However, his description of what that side story would be changed somewhat over time. Around Season 3 / early Season 4 or so, JMS revealed that the side story would have something to do with the Rangers, and he also made comments that suggested that a number of the B5 cast could conceivably end up in the spinoff series, but that's about as far as he ever went with the details.

Then, during Season 5, TNT announced that they would go ahead with a spinoff series, and it would be Crusade. (Which, as we know, only includes 1 character from the B5 cast in a regular role, and isn't about the Rangers.) Then, years later, SFC does a pilot for *another* pilot which is about the Rangers, but also doesn't focus on the original cast. Exactly what was going on behind the scenes here is unclear, but the new script book includes this:

http://www.cafepress.com/thejoestore.106681004

Most startling of all, this volume contains a recently uncovered FULL LENGTH TREATMENT for the B5 sequel series JMS had proposed before Crusade, that was his first choice over what eventually became Crusade, a series that would have starred Sheridan, Delenn, G'Kar, Marcus, one of the Zathrii, and several others in a story set against the backdrop of the Alliance attempting to create interstellar peace.

It probably wasn't being saved for the movie, which had the working title Memory of the Shadows, IIRC. But, what do I know? I haven't even finished the series yet.

There are two different things here. Back in like 1997 or so, Warner Bros. asked JMS about what he'd do if given the chance to do a B5 feature film. That's what people suspect may be the Telepath War. Then, just a few years ago (like ~2004, if memory serves), an outside company offered to produce a B5 movie which Warner Bros. would not finance at all, just distribute. JMS wrote the script (with the title “The Memory of Shadows”), but then the funding eventually fell apart and it was never made. I don't think anyone ever provided any official confirmation as to what the plot of the movie was about. However, all of the unconfirmed, leaked information suggests that it was not about the Telepath War.

One theory as to why JMS would pass on the Telepath War if it's the story that he'd been saving for a movie is that this outside company would own the rights to producing this particular script as a movie, and if anything ever went wrong (as it ultimately did), JMS would never be able to use this particular script for a movie unless it was this particular company producing it. So maybe it's smarter to use this other story for the movie that may not end up happening. And if that movie does well, and there are calls to do another one once you've shown that it can work, use the Telepath War story for that one. At least, that's the best theory on it I've heard.

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"In The Kingdom Of The Blind"
I really liked the Centauri plot in this episode. For the first time this season, we're gaining momentum towards something bigger. Byron is just dumb in this episode, and Lyta is being reduced to window dressing in order to give him as much screen time to be dumb.

"A Tragedy Of Telepaths"
The Centauri plot continues, with a surprise visit from Na'Toth (great having some conclusion to her character that faded away so many episodes ago). It's the better storyline here. Byron still isn't making a whole lot of sense-- he seems to think holding himself up on a hunger strike will garner him more sympathy, but the telepaths don't seem to have any sympathy to begin with.

Which brings me to yet another problem with this story. The telepaths want a planet to live on all alone. Why is it such a problem for the Alliance? If they had just given the planet to Byron (and apparently, there are empty planets on their borders that no one wants) all these troubles would have gone away-- not to mention Byron's tedious monologues. I really don't think the actor portraying him is bad, it's just everything else that is-- his character's look (totally innaprorpriate), the writing (pretentious), and the music (trying to overcome the faults of the previous by pulling on our emotional strings, to no avail).

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Movements Of Fire And Shadow
I don't know how JMS is managing this, but the last 4 episodes, while all excellent, have managed to get successively better with each episode. This episode thickens the plot some more with the revelation of there being Shadow technology on the Centauri vessels, rather than actual Centauri. I was beginning to suspect that was the case. The Regent is as weird and hilarious as ever, even though he's a lot darker than how he was in Season 4. Delenn and Lennier are stranded in hyperspace, I don't know how they'll manage to get out of that one. It all finishes with the Drazi and Narn beginning their attack on Centauri Prime. This episode is presently my favourite this season. But there's still 5 episodes left...

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Then you better hold on to your skull, because the next 5 - or is that "the last 5" - have the potential to break you down completely.

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
As for Lochley, I haven't made up my mind yet. I never really cared for Invonava, but it sure seems like it would have been better to have her part of this telepath storyline than Lochley. Oh, well. That's Hollywood.

I never really cared for Ivanova either (you and I must be the only two people on earth, though). Lochley, IMHO, has at least two things going for her: (1) she's hot, and (2) that really really sexy voice.

I for one liked her more than Ivanova (more than Talia too, for that matter).

Hirogen Alpha said:
And does anyone else hate this season's opening? The music just doesn't fit with the Babylon 5 world, and the sound mixing on all the dialogue in the beginning of it is WAY too low.

you're on your own on that one - season 5's opening is far and away my favorite of the show - or for any show for that matter.

Hirogen Alpha said:
And JMS' name on the back of the station? Tone down the ego methinks.

never really paid attention to it, so no comment, i guess.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

The Fall Of Centauri Prime
This is the best episode in all of Babylon 5. Wow. I was speechless after this episode was finished. I was actually tearing up while watching it. Londo Mollari is the quintessential Shakesperean tragedy. Because of the choices he made, starting with the episode Signs And Portents, he must now face the consequences. On one side, he's a villain: because of the choices he made, the Centauri are now under the control of the Drakh and are alone in the universe. But at the same time, he's a hero: because of his bravery to save billions of Centauri lives if he didn't obey the Drakh. To save his people, he must be alone. For someone like Londo, this is a terrible price to pay. In Season 1, he had lots of freedom, yet with a position of little importance in the Royal Court. Now he's gotten what he's always dreamed, the position of Emperor, but, ironically, he has no free will. It's interesting how closely this parallels the attack on the Narn homeworld in Season 2(?). In the Narns case, it was the Centauri who attacked Narn, killing many Narn innocents, and the Shadows occupied the planet afterward. Here it's the Narn who attacked the Centauri homeworld, killing many Centauri innocents, and the Shadows' minions are now in control behind the scenes. Londo's goodbyes to everyone were very sad, but especially G'Kar's. G'Kar has found it in himself to forgive Londo. To many in the Babylon 5 universe, Londo is a villain. But to us, the viewers at home, Londo is a hero, the greatest hero in all of Babylon 5.

The Wheel Of Fire
After the tour de force of the last episode, this one was destined to be a letdown, no matter how good it is. This episode is a letdown because of the previous episode, but it's still excellent. I love "evil Lyta". Lyta, now the head of a terrorist organization against the Psi Corps. That doesn't sound too evil, but she's willing to kill anyone to reach her goal. She sees everyone as "mundanes". Byron had quite the influence on her. G'Kar is still having trouble being a religious icon, and it's getting worse. He realizes that he cannot return to his planet, nor can he stay on the station, So he decides to explore the universe, and take Lyta with him. Garibaldi's drinking has also reached its head, with Sheridan suspending him from active duty. But with Lochley and Lise's help, he has managed to find the road to recovery. He's also decided that he and Lyta have the same goal, to destroy Psi Corps, so he allies himself with her. I guess you could say that both Garibaldi and G'Kar are harboring weapons of mass destruction. Lyta, the Vorlon Nuclear bomb. Many characters are beginning to go their separate ways, the end is near.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

She's a telepathic equivalent to a thermonucleer device. See?

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Objects In Motion
It's time for some goodbyes. Goodbye to Garibaldi. Garibaldi, I think, has been on B5 the longest. Right from the beginning in The Gathering until he leaves the station in this episode. Throughout his journey he's been shot in the back, dealt with Nightwatch, been programmed by Psi Corps, battled alcoholism, and he has dealt with the biggest problem of them all, hair loss. Garibaldi will be missed. Goodbye to Lyta. Lyta was forever changed after she first scanned Kosh back in The Gathering. Since then she was a valuable member of the B5 crew, willing to scan people without their permission, because of her disillusionment with Psi Corps. Even though she got a little disillusioned with mundanes in the last season, she still manages to have a little good left in her. Lyta will be missed. Goodbye to G'Kar. Next to Londo, G'Kar went through the biggest journey on Babylon 5. He started out as a villain, with a blood oath against the Centauri that could never be broken. He grew to have more compassion and more tolerance of other cultures. His turn as a religious icon has exemplified this change the most. The G'Kar from the first 2 seasons was not even close to the G'Kar of Season 5. Perhaps the greatest moment for G'Kar was his forgiveness for Londo. In the first couple of seasons, G'Kar would not have hesitated to kill Londo. Now he can't let Londo die, even becoming his bodyguard to prevent that from happening. G'Kar will be missed.

Objects At Rest
Goodbye to Lochley. Despite being present in just one season, she had me sympathizing and growing to like her character. Although I still wished for Ivanova from time to time, I now wish we could have had both Lochley and Ivanova on the show at the same time, because I cannot imagine Babylon 5 without Lochley. Lochley will be missed (although she's in Crusade, so she won't be missed for long). Goodbye to Corwin. Despite being mostly in the background for the entire series, you are the one constant of Babylon 5. Whether it was dealing with your crush for Ivanova, or making sure the docking procedures run smoothly. Corwin will be missed. Goodbye to Zack Allen. He started as a bit player, but he morphed into a main character with a character arc all his own. Despite some missteps, like joining the Nightwatch, Allen has always been the nice guy. Zack will be missed. Goodbye to Lennier. The loyal aide to Delenn got almost too close to her in this episode by leaving Sheridan to die, but before this incident, Lennier had always tried to do the right thing for Delenn. Lennier will be missed. Goodbye to Vir. Vir began as a shy, bubbly Centauri and has turned into a calm, serious, wise, and still bubbly Ambassador. Vir will be missed. Goodbye to Franklin. Franklin has gone through father/son issues and battles with addiction, but he still found time to have some fun, like his time with Number One. Franklin will be missed. Goodbye to Delenn. Like Garibaldi, she's been on the station since the beginning, The Gathering. Her physical appearance has transformed, not only once, but twice. Although it was never explained where her pointy chin went after The Gathering . I'm willing to overlook that, because she was much better looking afterward. She started as a member of the Grey Council, and ended as First lady of the Interstellar Alliance. Not too shabby. Delenn will be missed. Goodbye to Sheridan. Despite coming onto the series in Season 2, replacing the main character in the process, he created a character all his own. Very different than Sinclair, but still possessing the very same values and morals. Sheridan was an easy character to like. Sheridan even died in Season 3, but continued living to defeat the Shadows and the corrupt Earth government. Sheridan will be missed.

Goodbye to Babylon 5: The Series is next .

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
I've still got half a season+ to go, and yet reading your post, I can't help but share your sadness. It's amazing-- a year ago, when I saw The Gathering for the first time, I found myself laughing at Babylon 5. Now, as it reaches a close, I find myself wanting more. Thank goodness for the Lost Tales in July.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
Thank goodness for the Lost Tales in July.

Yes, thank goodness there's still more Babylon 5 on the way! Hopefully we'll get a Garibaldi or Londo story eventually.

 

[Jan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Assuming that sales are as expected, the Garibaldi segment originally planned for the first disk should be in the second once it's greenlighted.

So...when are you going to watch Sleeping in Light?

Jan

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Jan said:
So...when are you going to watch Sleeping in Light?

I was about to ask the same thing. I want to buy stock in Kleenex and Puffs.

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Anyone want to do a live commentary of the episode?

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Jan said:
Assuming that sales are as expected, the Garibaldi segment originally planned for the first disk should be in the second once it's greenlighted.

So...when are you going to watch Sleeping in Light?

Jan

Tonight

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
^^
Anyone want to do a live commentary of the episode?

That would be cool. When are you planning to watch it?

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I was about to suggest earlier that we do a live commentary, but I don't know in what timeframe you will be viewing it

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
That's true. I probably won't be seeing it for a couple of weeks, sad to say, since I've got Spring Break and before that midterms. But it would be great if everyone could wait until a specific date and hour, and then watch the episode together.

What do you all think?

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

I'm flexible with whatever works out for everyone. However, PKTrekGirl is the boss, so she needs to give the official :thumbsup:

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
^^
That's true. I probably won't be seeing it for a couple of weeks, sad to say, since I've got Spring Break and before that midterms. But it would be great if everyone could wait until a specific date and hour, and then watch the episode together.

What do you all think?

I'll be watching it tonight, but I'll watch it again for the live commentary. What timezones are you in? I'm in EST (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada)