NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

[archeryguy1701]

I agree with what you're saying, Scout, but I can also see sympathize with where Brady is coming from. He gave up a huge chunk of his pay this offseason in the hopes that TPTB would surround him with the best possible weapons for his waning years. And instead of trying to get him to another Super Bowl, the team appears to have taken a build for the future position. If I were Brady, I think I would probably be a little pissy too.

 

[Scout101]

But if he stops trying to be such a perfectionist for a few minutes and babies the young receivers along, he may find himself surrounded by a youthful, taller, more talented WR corp than he's had. And he can build them from the ground up himself.

Going to take some work, and ease into the playbook, but would he rather have veterans at the end of their careers instead? He's burned through those even faster the past few years. He's just gotta back off a little and not crush these kids while they get up to speed. the talent is there, they just need the experience. Being a dick won't get them on the same page...

 

[Alidar Jarok]

At least officially, even Brady agrees with you. That being said, they've had success with veterans at the end of their career and Brady isn't getting any younger, so I would think his interests are not in developing a new core of receivers.

 

[tighr]

Last night just provides further evidence that Brady is a system quarterback, who's success has always relied on the talent around him. Brady just made some overall bad decisions last night.

 

[Scout101]

That seems like taking it a bit too far. In any event, what IS a system QB? Short of some retarded robot that just listens in the earpiece and executes the play called in, in pretty much every instance the QB IS the system. And Brady was making the THROWS just fine, so whatever was going on was working fine. When you hit the WR in the hands, and they don't catch it, what is it you're trying to hold against the QB? What's the 'further proof' of a "system QB" you're talking about? Seems like a dumb claim, but curious as to your thinking...

And as far as 'talent around him', you'd have a tough time making that argument, outside maybe 2007 (where they busted just about every record and looked like they were playing in GodMode most of the time). Peyton, you could TRY and make that argument back in the day, when he had Harrison and Wayne grabbing anything that left Manning's hand. And I'm not making that argument, just pointing out Brady wasn't surrounded by all-pros.

Who are these super-talented players Brady has been surrounded with? Welker and Moss at one point, Gronk recently, but how about when they were winning? Do Branch and Givens really count as the superstar WRs you want to hang your hat on? Good, but come on. Corey Dillon was pretty good in 2004, but Brady's never really had the RB stud, either. In 2006, they almost went all the way with NO ONE on offense. I think I was like 3rd on the WR depth chart that year, and they got one bad drop away from a Superbowl there (caldwell). Or if Faulk gets another 6" on that 4th and 2...

Brady's a HoF first ballot, top 3 or so all time, but he's just lost a little. no shame in that. he's a little more set in his ways, and has more trouble adapting to people not doing things his way. A little bit of a Diva (on field, he's fine off the field) in those situations, and he needs to get over it. Young Brady was a little more flexible, and it seemed to work out ok for him...

 

[archeryguy1701]

But if he stops trying to be such a perfectionist for a few minutes and babies the young receivers along, he may find himself surrounded by a youthful, taller, more talented WR corp than he's had. And he can build them from the ground up himself.

Going to take some work, and ease into the playbook, but would he rather have veterans at the end of their careers instead? He's burned through those even faster the past few years. He's just gotta back off a little and not crush these kids while they get up to speed. the talent is there, they just need the experience. Being a dick won't get them on the same page...

There's nothing wrong with bringing in youth and developing them..... but it's dumb to do a full-blown youth movement in a position as important as WR, especially when you're in win-now mode. You certainly don't go out and replace a vast majority of your corps with rookies. Some older vets may not be the flashiest or most impressive, but they've been around the block and they'll make the catches they need to make and will get the job done. And like I said above, If you were in Brady's position and was running out of years, would you rather have to try and develop a whole bunch rookies and hope they can get up to speed quickly enough to help you win a championship, or would you like at least a couple reliable vets that you can lean on if the young pups ain't getting it done?

 

[Scout101]

I agree, but a couple factors at work there:

-Are we talking about this if Amendola and Gronk are on the field, and we're just counting on them to be the 4th or 5th option? Even having Vereen back would take more pressure off. it looks worse because they all are out at the same time, so it's pretty much just the rookies holding the bag

-Same idea, but they committed to this BEFORE Hernandez got arrested for murder. Having him back there, even with all the injuries being what they are, this looks better.

Just lots of stuff went wrong together, so it's left them a little exposed. Gronk should be back in a week or two, hopefully the same for Amendola, and the pressure should subside a little. Plus, that was Dobson's first game, and Thompkins' second. Give them a couple to let the game slow down and gain some confidence, it may start to turn around. And with some veterans around them, they won't be in the all or nothing mode.

I'm sure Brady would rather have reliable guys, but they weren't really around for the taking. They probably goofed by not offering enough for emmanuel sanders and letting the Steelers get him back, but they thought he was a nice to have, not the emergency they have now. Could have probably gotten Bolden from the ravens, given what he ended up going for, that would have been nice.

We could go down a list, but who was the last veteran they brought in that worked out with Brady? He's not very patient, and once you lose his trust, he never looks your way again. OchoCinco, Joey Porter, Lloyd (although ok success), all the guys this year that never sniffed the roster, we can go back quite a ways. Best success they had was bringing back Branch, and he's basically washed up at this point. At that point, you're just debating whether it's better to be able to get open but drop passes, or able to catch passes but can't get enough seperation to be able to be thrown to in the first place...

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have 3 2007 Randy Mosses on the field, Pats would win 200 to 0 every week, but they haven't had much luck finding them. WR and CB seem to be spots the Pats suck at identifying.

Thompkins and Dobson both had some really good flashes in practice and preseason (worth very little, obviously), let's give them some time and see if that can't grow into something. The skillset appears to be there, they're just playing fast/scared.

Imagine it'll take pressure off of them once the adults come back, so should be ok in the end. And since the AFC East sucks balls, they're very likely going to win the division anyway, so there's no crisis here; there's time to see where it goes. More worried Eddleman gets hurt before the reinforcements come back, and then they're down to Brady just throwing it high in the air and seeing if he can catch it downfield himself

 

[1001001]

Last night just provides further evidence that Brady is a system quarterback, who's success has always relied on the talent around him.

That's true of almost every successful quarterback.

The ones who are good with mediocre talent and/or coaching around them don't win Super Bowls (I'm looking at you, Dan Fouts).

Joe Montana was a "system" quarterback. Who wouldn't want to throw to Jerry Rice and John Taylor?

Tom Brady, as much as I hate him, is a Great QB. A certain first round Hall of Famer.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, pretty much. Besides, a QB with weapons isn't a "system QB," he's just a QB with help. On the other hand, a QB without weapons is pretty much nothing. A good QB can do more with less and a bad QB can do less with more, but that's just the fact that the QB doesn't play alone on the field.

 

[Spider]

Is it selfish of me to see the Patsies degraded this season as a good thing? That only leaves Denver in the way of the Texans. Well, besides the Texans themselves that is.

 

[Green Shirt]

Kind of feel bad for Brady.

Me too. He has such a miserable, sucky life.

 

[tighr]

Thanks, KBAK. Manning Bowl III is on this afternoon, nearly every station in the country is choosing to air it, we are not in a DMA required to air a local team, and you STILL choose to air the Jags/Raiders snoozefest. Goddamn Raiders fans. I guess I'll be seeking out "alternate" methods of watching this game.

http://506sports.com/nfl.php?yr=2013&wk=2

 

[gblews]

Thanks, KBAK. Manning Bowl III is on this afternoon, nearly every station in the country is choosing to air it, we are not in a DMA required to air a local team, and you STILL choose to air the Jags/Raiders snoozefest. Goddamn Raiders fans.

You're welcome. Enjoy your nap.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Not sure if the Bears really are better on offense, or just lucky so far.

I feel like they're worse on defense than last year. Lots of problems tackling.

 

[feek61]

I'm not that excited. To start with; our team's uniforms have been voted the worst in the history of the NFL . . . this season is not starting off so good! Normally the uniform look has been the best thing about out team; now we have nothing!!

It was just as I suspected: we suck!! We played the worst team in the league from last year (by way of the draft criteria) The Chiefs; and they smoked us. We looked so bad that not only do we have the worst uniforms in the history of the NFL; we may have played the worst game ever in the history of the NFL . . . oh yeah, our quarterback got hurt too and is out, lol.

Continuing on with our losing tradition; we got smoked by the Raiders today (and lost our starting running back). Even the cable company's description of our team was pretty funny!!

 

[chrisspringob]

As I type this, we're in the 2nd quarter of SNF with 5:06 left in the half, and Kaepernick has a quarterback rating of 15.3, while Wilson has a rating of 3.7. Yikes!

 

[chrisspringob]

First half is over, and the *combined* output of the two quarterbacks is 8 complete passes (on 24 attempts), and 94 total passing yards. Good grief.

 

[archeryguy1701]

Another smackdown laid on by the Broncos. If they can keep it up, this should be a big season.

Most surprising/ exciting thing for me is Knowshon Moreno running 13 times for 93 yards. I've been as down on him as anybody throughout his career, but he put on a show. And it wasn't just the Giants sucking- Ball and Hillman didn't exactly do much with their touches. Moreno ran like a guy who was running out of time on his contract and knows that the young guns behind him were here with the express purpose of making him obsolete. I hope he can keep it up because a run game will be huge for Denver.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

And the Seahawks kicked San Francisco's butt! Even with a very bad thunderstorm, we still won.
But darn it, that was quite the storm!

 

[tomalak301]

Well, congrats to Seattle and their fans. It was a beat down of epic proportions tonight, and the 49ers were humbled. Hopefully they learn composure this week because I think the worst thing about this game was A) all the penalties and B) all the stupidity that went on from this team. Not only that, but when you don't have a running game and the Seahawks just shut down the passing game, nothing good will come out of it.