• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

NFL 2014-2015 Season Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Is this true? Did the NFL have the "elevator video" when they suspended him for 2 games?

I don't know. If they didn't, one wonders why it took so long for the video to surface, and how it escaped the notice of the NFL? If they did, Goodell should step down. Were the Ray Rice situation an isolated incident, I might feel differently. But when one considers this situation alongside the suspensions of Josh Gordon (which I agreed with) and Jim Irsay (which I thought was too light), one wonders if Goodell is capable of even wiping his ass after using the restroom, much less running the National Football League.

--Sran
 
Should he have struck her? Hell no.

But banishment for something where no charges brought up? Nothing filed, the now wife apologizing for starting it?

I don't think he should let the public feelings make policy.

I don't think there can be a reasonable one size fits all policy. I think he made a mistake creating one.

I also think he made a mistake by "judging" to soon. They all knew there was an elevator vid, they should have waited until they saw it.

I don't think it's as cut and dry as most seen to think it is.
 
Peter King actually reported that the NFL did have the tape when all this was going on months ago but has now backtracked.

Link
 
I thought charges were filed and then resolved (presumably because his wife declined to cooperate).
 
With any luck, it will force Goodell to resign. He's handled the whole situation so poorly. Even if he hadn't seen the video before, the two game suspension was a joke to begin with. Then there was that mockery of trying to save face by changing the rule after the fact (and being called out on it). It's been one blunder after another.

And this really isn't anything new for him. He's been so inconstant when it comes to enforcement and punishment of rules. This just happens to be the most egregious offence. They guy is basically the worst commish of any pro sport in my life time. Even as grievous as Selig's agenda could sometimes be (contraction?), he never reached this level of incompetence.
 
They're talking about "double jeopardy" concerning the NFL possibly adding to it's punishment of Rice. So they may not be able to do anything more, since a 2 game suspension was handed down.

Cutting him was a no brainer and criminal charges wouldn't be necessary if you use the "to the detriment of the game" idea.
 
They're talking about "double jeopardy" concerning the NFL possibly adding to it's punishment of Rice. So they may not be able to do anything more, since a 2 game suspension was handed down.

Cutting him was a no brainer and criminal charges wouldn't be necessary if you use the "to the detriment of the game" idea.

I would agree, but the only thing that has changed is we all saw the video.

It's not like he did it again.

This sounds like some lawyers are going to have somrthing to say about it all....
 
I don't think it's as cut and dry as most seen to think it is.

Yes. It absolutely is cut-and-dried. In response to his fiancee pushing him, Ray Rice punched her twice, knocking her unconscious (and coming very near killing her or causing serious head injury). He then dragged her unconscious carcass out of the elevator like a bag of trash.

That's all there is to it. Nothing more. None of this "she apologized for starting it" (victim-shaming, woohoo!) bullshit, no "there are more layers to this," no. Ray Rice beat the tar out of a defenseless woman. Fuck him, fuck Goodell and fuck the Ravens.

And this is not an isolated incident. Dudes don't suddenly decide out of the blue to beat the shit out of their partner. The only reason Rice even got his initial (disgusting) slap on the wrist was because he was stupid enough to snap in an Atlantic City casino, where everything is on tape.
 
Just because they're going through counseling doesn't mean he won't do it again.
Good on the team and NFL for doing what they did.

As for her staying with him and marring him, sadly thats the way it works sometimes , women become used to being treated like Shit, and can't get away from it..
 
Just because they're going through counseling doesn't mean he won't do it again.
Good on the team and NFL for doing what they did.

I'm not going to congratulate them for doing something they should have done months ago.
 
I'm not going to congratulate them for doing something they should have done months ago.

Nor am I. You're not a hero for putting out a fire that you helped start. That Roger Goodell was content to give Rice a slap on the wrist until the combination of public outcry and new (if it actually is new) video footage forced his hand is more than enough proof he has no business running the National Football League. And to think that most of this happened while he sat on his ass and waited to do anything about Jim Irsay!

If I'm the media, I'm shredding Goodell, the Ravens and the entire NFL for their absolutely atrocious handling of this mess.

--Sran
 
Is double jeopardy even applicable if it's a corporation? I honestly don't know.

It would depend on the collective bargaining agreement and what it allows.

In this video, they discuss double jeopardy being a part of the CBA.

What does it say?

Just because they're going through counseling doesn't mean he won't do it again.
Good on the team and NFL for doing what they did.

I'm not going to congratulate them for doing something they should have done months ago.

I will say a step in the right direction is a good thing. I'm sure it should have already been done, but I will hope that it's a one time thing and this helps keep it that way.
 
I don't think it's as cut and dry as most seen to think it is.

Yes. It absolutely is cut-and-dried. In response to his fiancee pushing him, Ray Rice punched her twice, knocking her unconscious (and coming very near killing her or causing serious head injury). He then dragged her unconscious carcass out of the elevator like a bag of trash.

That's all there is to it. Nothing more. None of this "she apologized for starting it" (victim-shaming, woohoo!) bullshit, no "there are more layers to this," no. Ray Rice beat the tar out of a defenseless woman. Fuck him, fuck Goodell and fuck the Ravens.

And this is not an isolated incident. Dudes don't suddenly decide out of the blue to beat the shit out of their partner. The only reason Rice even got his initial (disgusting) slap on the wrist was because he was stupid enough to snap in an Atlantic City casino, where everything is on tape.

Yes, and yes.

In some jurisdictions the DA will prosecute domestic violence whether the victim participates in the prosecution or not.

They certainly have enough evidence of a serious crime being committed. This should be a law enforcement issue, not just an NFL issue.
 
I don't think it's as cut and dry as most seen to think it is.

Yes. It absolutely is cut-and-dried. In response to his fiancee pushing him, Ray Rice punched her twice, knocking her unconscious (and coming very near killing her or causing serious head injury). He then dragged her unconscious carcass out of the elevator like a bag of trash.

That's all there is to it. Nothing more. None of this "she apologized for starting it" (victim-shaming, woohoo!) bullshit, no "there are more layers to this," no. Ray Rice beat the tar out of a defenseless woman. Fuck him, fuck Goodell and fuck the Ravens.

And this is not an isolated incident. Dudes don't suddenly decide out of the blue to beat the shit out of their partner. The only reason Rice even got his initial (disgusting) slap on the wrist was because he was stupid enough to snap in an Atlantic City casino, where everything is on tape.

Yes, and yes.

In some jurisdictions the DA will prosecute domestic violence whether the victim participates in the prosecution or not.

They certainly have enough evidence of a serious crime being committed. This should be a law enforcement issue, not just an NFL issue.

Law enforcement already had its crack at the apple -- Atlantic County offered him a pre-trial diversion program, which is essentially a year of mandatory counseling. If he keeps his nose clean until next June, the charges will be dismissed.

And they wouldn't even have needed Janay to cooperate or testify; this would have been a matter of the State v. Rice. Any half-competent prosecutor could show those two videos to a jury, immediately rest the case, and get a conviction for assault in the first degree.

Just another failure in a mess full of disgusting failures, in this particular aspect on the part of the prosecutor and the judge who signed off on the diversion.

(By the way, the NFL's claim that all security for New Jersey casinos is handled by the New Jersey State Police is a bald-faced lie, in case anyone didn't figure that out yet.)
 
Yes. It absolutely is cut-and-dried. In response to his fiancee pushing him, Ray Rice punched her twice, knocking her unconscious (and coming very near killing her or causing serious head injury). He then dragged her unconscious carcass out of the elevator like a bag of trash.

That's all there is to it. Nothing more. None of this "she apologized for starting it" (victim-shaming, woohoo!) bullshit, no "there are more layers to this," no. Ray Rice beat the tar out of a defenseless woman. Fuck him, fuck Goodell and fuck the Ravens.

And this is not an isolated incident. Dudes don't suddenly decide out of the blue to beat the shit out of their partner. The only reason Rice even got his initial (disgusting) slap on the wrist was because he was stupid enough to snap in an Atlantic City casino, where everything is on tape.

Yes, and yes.

In some jurisdictions the DA will prosecute domestic violence whether the victim participates in the prosecution or not.

They certainly have enough evidence of a serious crime being committed. This should be a law enforcement issue, not just an NFL issue.

Law enforcement already had its crack at the apple -- Atlantic County offered him a pre-trial diversion program, which is essentially a year of mandatory counseling. If he keeps his nose clean until next June, the charges will be dismissed.

And they wouldn't even have needed Janay to cooperate or testify; this would have been a matter of the State v. Rice. Any half-competent prosecutor could show those two videos to a jury, immediately rest the case, and get a conviction for assault in the first degree.

Just another failure in a mess full of disgusting failures, in this particular aspect on the part of the prosecutor and the judge who signed off on the diversion.

(By the way, the NFL's claim that all security for New Jersey casinos is handled by the New Jersey State Police is a bald-faced lie, in case anyone didn't figure that out yet.)

Right, sorry I wasn't clear there. Early morning...

I think they should not have allowed him the diversion program (he actually entered a "not guilty" plea!!).

You made a great point earlier: there is no way that was the first and only time he did something like that. Look how unconcerned he was dragging her out of the elevator.

NPR had a story this morning that said the Ravens and the NFL both claim they did not see the second video until now. But, there is some dispute over that. Meanwhile, DV advocates ask: why wait until the second video? Wasn't the first one enough?

The whole thing is just sad.
 
I was talking with a prosecutor today who prosecutes juvenile and domestic relations cases primarily. His belief was most first offense domestic assault and battery cases would have been deferred in contemplation of dismissing the case for good behavior and mandatory counseling. Most A&B cases don't involve the victim getting knocked out cold, though, but it wasn't otherwise special treatment. Domestic Violence cases are strange cases because both parties have often reconciled. In those situations, counseling is far more important and the deferral is the carrot to incentivize that things change. Our deferral is for two years as opposed to six months, though.

The prosecutor agreed with me that, with that second video, they could have proved the case with or without the victim. I don't think they could have proved it with just the first video, though, unless the victim was cooperating. So I disagree with those who said the first was enough since we didn't know exactly what happened in that elevator (we could guess, certainly, and our guess turned out to basically be true, but we didn't know).

Regarding guilty pleas vs. not guilty pleas, my understanding is this was with the agreement of the prosecution, which means it wasn't a not guilty plea. If it was a not guilty plea, there would have been a trial. I'd point out, here, you're technically eligible even if you had gone to trial because it's otherwise punishing you for exercising your constitutional right to a trial, but Judges here don't agree to it unless you plea.
 
I hope the media takes them to task for this.

The "media" bears responsibility also. After all, they help transform flawed people into heroic figures they feel are worthy of our adulation.
Exactly how does the "media" force anyone to worship those who have been placed on these pedestals? I'de say that the ones who fall for the trick are the ones who should bear some responsibility.

I'm not going to congratulate them for doing something they should have done months ago.

Nor am I. You're not a hero for putting out a fire that you helped start. That Roger Goodell was content to give Rice a slap on the wrist until the combination of public outcry and new (if it actually is new) video footage forced his hand is more than enough proof he has no business running the National Football League. And to think that most of this happened while he sat on his ass and waited to do anything about Jim Irsay!

If I'm the media, I'm shredding Goodell, the Ravens and the entire NFL for their absolutely atrocious handling of this mess.

--Sran
If Rice had punched a dog, I think Goodell and the league would have known exactly what to do, and they wouldn't have needed any video. :rolleyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top