New TOS - Should we?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by ChallengerHK, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. Ricky Spanish

    Ricky Spanish History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    I guess the difference is that I don't want anyone to mimic the original. The original is the original, there will never be another Star Trek like it.
     
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  2. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    I don't want either. Mimicry is impossible now, as we live in a different era, different production values, etc.

    That's my point. We can try to mimic the sets, the costumes, and be fully faithful in that effort. But, part of mimicry is that it becomes static. Because you can't dare move forward without altering the original.

    And, with due respect, that's not what Star Trek was about.
     
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  3. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    I wasn't asked BUT as someone who LOVES TOS and saw it first run on NBC - Yes I find the Kelvin films much more like TOS then either STC and NV. To me the latter try to infuse to much 'TNG-ness' into their take of TOS and for me TNG was a wholly different beast and over its 7 TV seasons and feature films retconned a lot of TOS. <--- I didn't care for that.
     
  4. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The TNG vibe is noticeable (more in STC than Phase II), although part of that is due to the limitations of fan films with limited location shoots.

    It's easy to forget that TOS was wildly inconsistent but I don't think that they would ever have promoted a cadet to captain or ensign to chief engineer. TOS had a better grasp of common sense naval protocol to make the ship feel real as opposed to a teenage fantasy romp.
     
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  5. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    He was technically a lieutenant, like Saavik ;)
     
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  6. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A newly promoted lieutenant whose lack of self control would have destroyed the ship if not for Spock reigning him in in the first half of the movie.

    Also a lieutenant whose grand scheme for saving the day was dependent on Nero not having a cloak, not putting any shields up to get past Earth's defences, and coming into the solar system at less than warp 4 from only one angle. In reality, the Enterprise should have arrived about a week after the Earth had already been destroyed. In fact, the fleet travelling at warp 8 would have arrived long before the Enterprise, after finishing their training and stopping off at Wrigley's Pleasure Planet for ice cream.
     
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  7. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Being assigned as Captain of a starship right after three years in the academy seemed more like getting your own jet in Top Gun, even though Pike told Kirk, "You could be an officer in four years. You could have your own ship in eight." And I thought that sounded like a fast track to command.

    Kor
     
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  8. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always think of that episode of the Simpsons where the Admiral promotes Homer to be in command of the submarine.
     
  9. Ricky Spanish

    Ricky Spanish History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Cadet to captain irked me a bit, but a small complaint in a very fun movie.
     
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  10. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think that's what frustrated me so much about it; with a handful of tiny tweaks it could still have been a fun roller-coaster-ride but a lot less dumb. For example finish with Pike giving Kirk a commendation and saying, "In eight years, the Enterprise could be yours to command."

    Post credit scene of Captain Kirk stepping onto the bridge for the first time, muttering smugly under his breath, "I'll do it in three."
     
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  11. Ricky Spanish

    Ricky Spanish History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    I think part of the issue was that there was a writers strike in the lead up and during filming. Which kept them from doing another draft or make adjustments on the fly.
     
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  12. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not saying its perfect. Just that he was an officer.

    ETA: I will add that I don't think it makes perfect sense, or that it somehow couldn't have been better. I think it absolutely could have been done a whole lot better, and that, in turn, could have impacted ST ID to being a slightly better film. But, for me, they are minor quibbles in an otherwise good film.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  13. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They felt they needed 'Captain Kirk' in as a soundbyte, I think and so went out of their way to ensure it. The TOS movies did the same, I guess, and they obviously took a lot of inspiration from those movies as opposed to TOS itself. In the same way, they went way out of their way to include Chekov years before he would have been a cadet let alone an officer and yet excluded Rand who never had a significant presence in the movies. I was a bit irked when they said they couldn't think of anything for Rand to do when Chekov has to run from the bridge to work a transporter, which was literally a job that Rand had canonically performed.

    They also threw Nurse Chapel in as a soundbyte even though, technically she would have been neither part of Starfleet nor an officer nor a nurse at this point. She would have been a young biology research assistant to exo-archaeologist Roger Korby and therefore far more interesting (possibly even a woman to join them on their anthropological mission in Into Darkness?). She could have been recruited as a nurse on the fly by McCoy in the crisis to secure the soundbyte but they didn't really treat her character with much respect at all because again, she didn't really have much of a presence in the TOS movies.
     
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  14. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, I have plenty of ideas of how to improve it. I appreciate yours!
     
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  15. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Pondering this, in addition to leaving out Chekov until the sequel and including the ladies, I would probably have:

    - Used a 'subspace shockwave' instead of a supernova (which can only travel at the speed of light). Sloppy use of real physics offended the 8 year old I went to see it with.
    - Featured Number One transferring to command one of the other ships, giving Lt Spock the chance to become first officer.
    - Not made Nero's ship ludicrously invincible but use gravitational waves to damage the fleet and a cloaking device to escape. TWok was way more interesting with more evenly matched opponents.
    - Added a line of dialogue, probably from T'pau, about a plan to help the survivors before Enterprise abandons Vulcan.
    - Had Nero destroy the local subspace network so Spock's plan was to get within range of a relay to contact someone who can contact the fleet rather than flying all the way there at low warp.
    - Had demure Rand be the one to catch Kirk off guard and take him down on the bridge instead of Cupcake as an homage to her mistreatment in Enemy Within.
    - Had Spock beaming Kirk to the brig on Delta Vega accompanied by Yeoman Rand as security escort. Spock Prime onsite assisting Scotty to develop a transporter capable of getting past gravitational distortion and a method of penetrating Romulan cloaks. Spock shows Scotty how to do transwarp beaming (much shorter range) but Kirk and Rand have to brave snow monsters to modify the emitters.
    - Had Enterprise bait a trap in the solar system to penetrate the cloak, and a security team plus Kirk and Spock to beam on board. No snogging on duty during a crisis, just a bit of suggestive finger rubbing.
    - Avoided summary execution of Nero. He tries to torpedo Kirk and gravity pulls them back to destroy his own ship. Symbolism.
    - Not had them jetison the warp core, the ship would just be re-caught in the gravity well seconds later due to drastically reduced power output. Full power should be used to create a slingshot.

    What the Kelvin movies did well was maintain an exciting pace with some ongoing themes and character development. I think new TOS would struggle to stay relevant without ongoing plot elements. Self-contained episodic TV doesn't work as well these days although CSI fans may disagree.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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  16. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

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    I could add my own thoughts to this but I really like all of it. Your idea around Number 1 is similar to my idea of how to get Scotty on board instead on Delta Vega with the transwarp beaming. I had thought that the Enterprise warps in and is able to beam aboard survivors of the other ships, or surviving Starfleet personnel from Vulcan, in addition to Vulcan survivors.

    Like I said, lots of fun that I could do with the Kelvin films, so I love seeing these ideas!
     
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  17. Maurice

    Maurice Admiral Premium Member

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    Why? The timeline changed. She wouldn't have necessarily followed the same path, nor Roger Korby.
     
  18. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can't say I felt a TNG vibe in STC! :wtf:
    JB
     
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  19. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In short, because Nurse Chapel is boring and doomed to be in McCoy's shadow. Exobiologist/Exoarchaeologist/Alien tech expert Chapel is potentially interesting and can carry a scene.
     
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  20. Spock Riding

    Spock Riding Commodore Premium Member

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    There's a good chance that due to the time change, Corby didn't go to Exo 3, and married Chapel. Roger and Christine Corby lived happily ever after. :luvlove: Other scenario: Roger and Christine Corby went to Exo 3 together, died, and there are now Roger and Christine androids running about. Sadly, the Christine-bot would probably not let the Roger-bot build the Andrea-bot. :weep:
     
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