New StarGate series Prime Video.

[Christopher]

But there were many shows that looked as if they were done for but they gave them a chance. "On the bubble". TNG itself was a show that made it into season three with the smallest of margins.

Yes, but as I said, those were the exceptions, not the rule. For every show that was given that extra chance, there were plenty that weren't. And TNG was a syndicated series, so the situation wasn't the same as with network series. The stations that acquired syndicated shows were contractually obligated to show each season in its entirety, so shows had more opportunity to slowly build an audience, while a network show might get yanked into oblivion after just a few weeks.

Building a lead in for another show.

Another thing that's a non-issue with first-run syndication, since local stations could schedule a show whenever they wanted, and thus there was no consistent lead-in or lead-out. At most, a syndicated show might be paired in a package with another show, and the majority of syndicators would probably air them back-to-back, but there was no guarantee of that.

But my point was it was humans in the entertainment industry trying to read the data and just occasionally going on a hunch. Or nuance. Or a larger picture.

I don't think that's really the case now.

There are different factors in play now, but that doesn't make it any less of a fantasy to claim there was some ideal nostalgic past where shows were treated better. Some factors may have been better for shows than they are now, but others were worse. Especially for SF/fantasy shows; in the '70s-'80s, any genre show that aspired to intelligence or maturity would usually get pressured by executives to dumb itself down and aim for the lowest common denominator, which usually ended up getting it cancelled quickly. At least SF shows today are allowed to be as smart as their makers want them to be (maybe not entirely, but certainly more than back then), so if they fail, at least they fail on their own terms.

 

[oktay]

In my opinion, one reason this cancellation decision was made so easily is that the project did not have a powerful producer behind it. Yes, the name of Roland Emmerich was attached to the project, but the original film was produced independently and the ownership was sold to Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer. Because of U.S. legal arrangements regarding the rights, involvement came through an agreement with Amazon MGM Studios, and not in the role of a producer.

Amazon will release the Elle prequel in the coming months, with Reese Witherspoon serving as producer. Later this year, a miniseries adaptation of the Carrie, one of MGM's properties, is expected, with Mike Flanagan attached as producer. A Creed spin-off series is also in development with Michael B. Jordan as producer.

Perhaps the Stargate project was canceled so easily because there was no similarly influential producer attached. If a name such as Seth Rogen, who is also a producer of The Boys, or J. J. Abrams had been involved, the project might not have been canceled.

 

[bdub76]

The problem is this is what so many people say - and I'm not saying you're wrong - but then viewership says otherwise. People consistently flock to known IP. Paramount+ is making great hay right now out of "Yellowstone: Outsider Crapper" now or whatever spin off its doing. See Marvel and its universe. See people flocking to sequels. When you have a pre-built brand awareness it counts for so much.

Hence they also bolt Star Trek onto any tripe that crosses their desk these days.

IP lasts about 10ish years before they get worn out and folks abandon them. Then, they need time to rest before coming back again. We've pretty much seen this happen to Marvel. Doctor Who is pretty much canceled. Star Trek is coming to an end.

I would say that Stargate has had enough time to rest. But I don't have any idea as to the size of its fandom. And fans alone aren't enough to keep a series going. You need the casual viewers too.

The biggest problem with everybody streaming is that viewers are split across platforms. Folks rarely talk about shows in the office like they used to. And it's because not everyone is subscribed to the same services. It also doesn't help that the services have continued to raise their prices.

So what series will create new cult followings in this world of streaming? What has franchise possibilities? And what has merchandise possibilities? And why don't we have any Stargate video games?

 

[BillJ]

TNG itself was a show that made it into season three with the smallest of margins.

I don’t think this is true…

 

[DigificWriter]

Doctor Who is pretty much canceled

Nice fiction, bro.

 

[Mudd]

I don’t think this is true…

It's not.

 

[Rebel Scum]

That's too bad that new Stargate series was cancelled. It would have been interesting seeing what the show runners came up with. Such is show business.

 

[JD]

It feels like an unforced error to involve the fandom this early without a solid commitment, but Stargate is also in a sweet spot where it was even possible. Gateworld/Dial the Gate is pretty much the sole hub of Stargate fandom on-line. If you wanted to go direct to the fans to announce a new Star Trek or Star Wars project, I can think of a half-dozen sites you'd have to hit for Trek, and Star Wars is so big I don't think it's possible for there to be any central dedicated fan-run Star Wars news site (I'm not as into Star Wars, but I can't think of any equivalents to TrekCore, TrekMovie, or Trek Collective as the place to check to know what's going on). On the flip side, fandoms like Babylon 5, Firefly, and Farscape are so dormant that there are fan enclaves here and there, but, like, the main fandom news source for Babylon 5 is the series creator's social media, which isn't exactly a grassroots entity.

I think they really need to stop announcing projects that don't have a 100% commitment from the production company. It probably doesn't have a huge overall impact, but it just it really is getting annoying as a fan to get this big announcement that gets everyone excited and is all over the internet, just to cancel it a few months later. And I really don't understand what they get out of it, other than pissing off the fans.

Sadly, yes. Rinse and repeat. There are around 7 other reboot attempts of BSG in various forms (+/-) that I can recall, starting with Richard Hatch's "Second Coming" effort, and not including RDM's version - the only one that actually got made. Of the more well-known ones were the Desanto/Singer continuation/soft reboot series and the Glen Larson continuation film. I think there was also a "Battlestar Pegasus" project as well, that died a quick and quiet death.

I don't understand why Universal is so obssessed with rebooting Battlestar Galactica, because it's ever really been that popular. The Ron Moore series got a ton of acclaim, and had a devoted fan base, but I don't think it ever got that big of ratings, and the original barely lasted two seasons.

Maybe something related to Stargate will be made as a theatrical film in the future. If a movie is made (which would mean completely resetting the universe and rebooting it), real success would require a genuinely good film capable of attracting the interest of a general audience, much like Project Hail Mary. Otherwise, if no film is made, the universe might continue through low-budget animated projects, or the franchise could be shelved entirely.

If they didn't want to do a series, I can't image they'd do a theatrical film. A movie is going to take a lot more money, and need a much bigger audience than a TV series would. If they didn't want to take a chance on a series, there's probably very, very little chance of them doing a movie.

I expect very little happens because of fan campaigns. You might get another season if you're lucky. Jericho comes to mind.

And we did get a Veronica Mars film from a Kickstarter.

I do remember Netflix saving shows when it was still in its early years.

It's like protesting. At the end of the day, it gets TV coverage, but it never really changes anything.

What we actually need is new IP. I'd prefer new fandoms than rebooting or refreshing old ones. I can't really think of any over the last decade.

If we're talking about completley original IPs the two that jump to mind for me are Yellowstone, which has now had the original series, two prequels, 1883 and 1923, and two comtemporary direct spinoffs, Marshals and Dutton Ranch. The Madison also started off as a spin-off, but the producers changed their minds and it became it's own separate standalone thing.
The only other original one that really comes to mind for me is For All Mankind, which just got it's first spin-off, the Russia based Star City.
And on the adaptation front there's The Immortals Universe based on Anne Rice's books, with Interview With the Vampire, Mayfair Witches, and Talamasca: The Secret Order. There's also a The Vampire Lestat series that either just started or is about to start, but I'm not sure if that's considered a new series, or just the next season of Interview With The Vampire with a new title.

Everything I can find says that the fan campaign was a decisive factor there, but I'm sure it wasn't the only one. Probably the Syfy execs liked the show enough that they were willing to continue it in some form even if the expense and ratings had made cancellation necessary.

One possible contributing factor is that Farscape was always a loss leader for Henson Productions. They were willing to go into debt making it an elaborate production with complex effects because it served as an advertisement for what they were capable of, which brought them profitable work doing commercials and industrial films and made up for the losses they took on Farscape. So the usual profit-and-loss calculations didn't apply there, and maybe that's why Syfy was more willing to continue the show than they otherwise might have been.

I just checked the timeline on Wikipedia, and PK Wars aired around a year and half after the series finale, so I'm thinking they must have already known it was coming when the show ended.

They're figuring out that rebooting old cult fantasy shows is a bad business notion?

X-FIles, can't say. It was something like a mainstream hit. BTVS was big for a low-budget show on two weblets that pitched their content to demos underserved by the so-called "Big Three." B5 was...fuck, it was a first-run syndication show that didn't pull numbers anywhere near Xena or even DS9.

Have they cancelled the Xena reboot yet?

Yes, they cancelled that a while back.

The problem is this is what so many people say - and I'm not saying you're wrong - but then viewership says otherwise. People consistently flock to known IP. Paramount+ is making great hay right now out of "Yellowstone: Outsider Crapper" now or whatever spin off its doing.

The current Yellowstone spin-offs are Marshals, and Dutton Ranch, which each follow different members of the Dutton family after the original series ended.

Oh so many pilots never saw the light of day then then the success rate after commissioning was horrific.

But there were many shows that looked as if they were done for but they gave them a chance. "On the bubble". TNG itself was a show that made it into season three with the smallest of margins.

And sometimes it was fan noise. Sometimes it was seeing something in a certain demographic. Or a certain potential in ratings. Or a certain synergy in the topic. Building a lead in for another show.

But my point was it was humans in the entertainment industry trying to read the data and just occasionally going on a hunch. Or nuance. Or a larger picture.

I don't think that's really the case now.

I know I've heard stories about one or two series with iffy rating being saved because an executive's spouse was a big fan.

 

[bdub76]

Nice fiction, bro.

Let me know when a new showrunner and Doctor are announced.

 

[bdub76]

If we're talking about completley original IPs the two that jump to mind for me are Yellowstone, which has now had the original series, two prequels, 1883 and 1923, and two comtemporary direct spinoffs, Marshals and Dutton Ranch. The Madison also started off as a spin-off, but the producers changed their minds and it became it's own separate standalone thing.
The only other original one that really comes to mind for me is For All Mankind, which just got it's first spin-off, the Russia based Star City.
And on the adaptation front there's The Immortals Universe based on Anne Rice's books, with Interview With the Vampire, Mayfair Witches, and Talamasca: The Secret Order. There's also a The Vampire Lestat series that either just started or is about to start, but I'm not sure if that's considered a new series, or just the next season of Interview With The Vampire with a new title.

If the Yellowstone series and its spin-offs end, is this the type of IP that you foresee being rebooted in the future? How about conventions? How about merchandise?

What I'm talking about is the next Star Wars, where you can make a lot of money with licensed merchandise and keep bringing it back for more, not another CSI or NCIS. There are also long running soaps like Coronation Street. Soap-wise, I'd consider Dark Shadows an exception as it has a cult following, and a reboot was attempted. But then you still have the convention and merchandise aspect. What's a recent IP that has really repeated what we saw with both Star Wars and Star Trek?

If you've read the books, Vampire Lestat is the second book in the series. These books came out a long time ago. The TV series is very well done. The author has long sine passed away. I don't consider these a new IP.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I think they really need to stop announcing projects that don't have a 100% commitment from the production company.

What does this even mean? Do you remember/have you heard of the 2011 Wonder Woman pilot starring Palicki? Shot and swept under the rug (though leaked and apparently archived). I'm certain there are other examples that posters can provide. Then there's the series that's canceled mid-first season, without airing all completed episodes or completing episodes on which production had already begun. Posters can fill in their own examples, here, too. Westworld on HBO had four seasons, but now it's been purged from the platform. Did they even stream any of its fourth season? Support exists, until it doesn’t.

 

[fireproof78]

It's a lot of money to just alley oop and Hope.

 

[JD]

OK, that's a fair point.

If the Yellowstone series and its spin-offs end, is this the type of IP that you foresee being rebooted in the future? How about conventions? How about merchandise?

What I'm talking about is the next Star Wars, where you can make a lot of money with licensed merchandise and keep bringing it back for more, not another CSI or NCIS. There are also long running soaps like Coronation Street. Soap-wise, I'd consider Dark Shadows an exception as it has a cult following, and a reboot was attempted. But then you still have the convention and merchandise aspect. What's a recent IP that has really repeated what we saw with both Star Wars and Star Trek?

I'm not sure about conventions, but there is a ton of Yellowstone merchandise, pretty much every cowboy/girl, rancher type I see on social media has a Yellowstone or Dutton Ranch (the ranch the original show focused on, not the spinoff) hat or shirt, there's a whole line of Yellowstone frozen meals, and I'm pretty sure I've seen the Yellowstone or Dutton Ranch logo on other stuff on Amazon, and at Wal-Mart, Target.

If you've read the books, Vampire Lestat is the second book in the series. These books came out a long time ago. The TV series is very well done. The author has long sine passed away. I don't consider these a new IP.

Yeah, I know that, which is why I'm not sure if the Lestat adaptation is a new Season 1 or just Season 3 of Interview with The Vampire. I think I Wikipedia has it down as Season 3 of IwTV, but I'm not sure what the official stance is.

 

[bdub76]

What does this even mean? Do you remember/have you heard of the 2011 Wonder Woman pilot starring Palicki? Shot and swept under the rug (though leaked and apparently archived). I'm certain there are other examples that posters can provide. Then there's the series that's canceled mid-first season, without airing all completed episodes or completing episodes on which production had already begun. Posters can fill in their own examples, here, too. Westworld on HBO had four seasons, but now it's been purged from the platform. Did they even stream any of its fourth season? Support exists, until it doesn’t.

Remember the US pilot of Red Dwarf?

 

[bdub76]

OK, that's a fair point.

I'm not sure about conventions, but there is a ton of Yellowstone merchandise, pretty much every cowboy/girl, rancher type I see on social media has a Yellowstone or Dutton Ranch (the ranch the original show focused on, not the spinoff) hat or shirt, there's a whole line of Yellowstone frozen meals, and I'm pretty sure I've seen the Yellowstone or Dutton Ranch logo on other stuff on Amazon, and at Wal-Mart, Target.

The closest I've found is Longmire Days for the Longmire character. I've also seen some clothing collaborations with the show Heartland when I was visiting Jackson Hole.

Longmire Days 2026

From July 16-19, 2026 in Buffalo, WY

www.longmiredays.com

Yeah, I know that, which is why I'm not sure if the Lestat adaptation is a new Season 1 or just Season 3 of Interview with The Vampire. I think I Wikipedia has it down as Season 3 of IwTV, but I'm not sure what the official stance is.

Pretty sure it's an adaptation of the second book. They're pulling in stuff from the later books in earlier. It's basically the first book from Lestat's POV. I like the book much more than Interview. But I really like what they did with Interview. It's much better than the first book. I hope they split it into two seasons as well.

 

[DigificWriter]

Let me know when a new showrunner and Doctor are announced.

Your assertion is Fiction because the BBC and Bad Wolf have explicitly, consistently, and repeatedly stated,and reaffirmed that Doctor Who will continue to be produced, and RTD himself just recently stated that specific news about the programme is coming within the next two to three weeks.

 

[bdub76]

Your assertion is Fiction because the BBC and Bad Wolf have explicitly, consistently, and repeatedly stated,and reaffirmed that Doctor Who will continue, and RTD himself just recently stated that specific news about the programme is coming within the next two to three weeks.

And Amazon is doing a new James Bond too.

I'll believe it when it gets an air date, which Land Between since hasn't gotten on Disney+.

 

[AntonyF]

I don’t think this is true…

In AI style... "You're absolutely right..."

I meant between seasons one and two, not two and three.

 

[BillJ]

In AI style... "You're absolutely right..."

I meant between seasons one and two, not two and three.

It was renewed in November of 1987 for season two. Roughly five weeks after “Encounter at Farpoint” premiered in the US.

TNG was a phenomenon here, right out of the gate and was never in danger of not being renewed.

 

[Christopher]

I think they really need to stop announcing projects that don't have a 100% commitment from the production company.

I don't think there's any way to do that. For us in the audience, this is just entertainment, but for many people in the industry, news about projects in development at the studios would constitute business news, something they might need to know about for their work, e.g. if they want to apply for a job on the production or if they want to know what their competitors are doing, or whatever. So that's probably a lot of what drives advance news about projects in development, and if something's reported to industry insiders, it's bound to get out to the general public too. I don't see any way to keep it secret from the public.

As I said, the burden is on us to read the news with healthy skepticism and not mistake development news for some kind of pinky-swear promise that can't be broken. That's like assuming a weather forecast or an election forecast can never be wrong.

I don't understand why Universal is so obssessed with rebooting Battlestar Galactica, because it's ever really been that popular. The Ron Moore series got a ton of acclaim, and had a devoted fan base, but I don't think it ever got that big of ratings, and the original barely lasted two seasons.

The original lasted only one season and was cancelled due to its high cost and plummeting ratings. ABC then demanded that they make a cheaper sequel series to amortize the cost of the original show's FX, costumes, and props and add more episodes to the syndication package to help them recoup their losses later. That sequel series lasted less than half a season, a mere 10 episodes, because it went way over budget itself, and because nobody involved with it actually wanted to make it and it was therefore terrible.

Modern BSG fans have this myth that the original show had some huge fan following rivaling Star Trek, but it was a flop that got little attention in its afterlife. Media magazines like Starlog rarely covered it after it was gone, even though they routinely did articles about older shows and movies and interviews with their casts. Many of its episodes got syndicated as TV movies and got shown in weekday-afternoon time slots now and then, along with other short-lived shows like the live-action Spider-Man or The Gemini Man, but that wasn't exactly high-profile.

I think it was probably Richard Hatch's attempts to pitch a revival over the years that helped build interest in the project, but it took decades.

I just checked the timeline on Wikipedia, and PK Wars aired around a year and half after the series finale, so I'm thinking they must have already known it was coming when the show ended.

Actually, no: https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/revisiting-farscape-the-peacekeeper-wars/

They knew they were cancelled before the finale aired, so they could've chosen to edit out the cliffhanger and end the series on a positive note, but they decided to leave in the cliffhanger regardless, and that decision, along with the fan campaign, was one of the factors that went into the later decision to make the miniseries.