new Shogun adaptation coming...

Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by arch101, Jan 31, 2021.

  1. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    Location:
    Mannheim, Germany
    I don't know japanese at all, the words i know you can count on one hand. In one of the behind the scenes videos i saw they talked about all the specialists they hired to make the show as authentic as possible including a language specialist, who advised them on the speech patterns of ancient japanese. Maybe that's what you picked up because apparently they don't speak modern contemporary japanese in the show.

    It's been decades since i read the book so i don't remember much but i love how the show is written. I was so caught up in the scene in the Tea House when Mariko "spoke" to John with Kiku's words - that was so beautiful on so many levels. Also the way John and Mariko prayed together even if they were separated by a wall.

    The show continues to amaze me and as much as i love the 80s show this one far surpasses it in writing and acting ( i'm not counting the production value as that is just money and the capabilities of modern effects technology). The action is awesome in the show but it really shines when it's about the characters, their motivations and actions.
     
    Ridcully, 1987SpaceGuy and Jedi Marso like this.
  2. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Location:
    Idaho
    I hadn't heard that. That's interesting if that is what they are doing. For us, maybe the equivalent of a show using Old English instead of contemporary English, I guess.

    I found that a warm moment between them. He demonstrates a form of Christianity solidarity to her, even though their respective sects are separated by a serious and violent schism. The Lord's Prayer is the same in every Christian denomination.

    The root difference I find between this and the original, is that the original miniseries was clearly made for western audiences, and the story centers on Blackthorne and is told through his eyes. This version focuses on the broader historical arc of what was happening in Japan at the time. Blackthorne's story and his influence on events are central to the story without being the sole focus. Chamberlain almost carried the original production on his back in certain ways, while this telling feels like much more an ensemble effort. If anything, Toranaga is the central character here.
     
    1987SpaceGuy likes this.
  3. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    Those were beautiful scenes in a beautiful episode.

    Also, I love how Toranaga respects Mariko for her intelligence and insights. Plus, Lady Ochiba seems to be a little bit crazy, but smart as hell.
     
    Jedi Marso and 1987SpaceGuy like this.
  4. 1987SpaceGuy

    1987SpaceGuy Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2019
    @Jedi Marso - please spoil me :cool: in spoiler tags, doesn't matter if it's just bullet points or in depth.

    WHAT A BRILLIANT "Woman of Shogun" centric episode.

    top notch characters and acting talent, intriguing arcs, all mixed with a look into Japan's history and culture and top notch writing and production value, a few SFX mishaps aside earlier on.

    the "tea house" talk was beautiful and extremely sad at the same time.
    Brilliant how they captured Mariko and Blackthorne's feelings. (at least that's what I read into it)

    the plot thickens... Is it next week yet...

    so Mariko and Lady Ochiba were (arranged) friends,
    then Mariko's dad (and/or Toranaga) played the long revenge/power game with Mariko and married her away to safety.

    Did Toranaga not know Mariko didn't know her "true" story or did he hold it back? hmm
    Wonder what makes Lady Ochiba hate Toranaga so much? (I mean she blames him/them for her dad's death - but why would the writers hold that back that reveal, after implying it? Is there more to it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2024
    Commander Troi likes this.
  5. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Location:
    Idaho
    @1987SpaceGuy I don't want to spoil Mariko's storyline for you, and you'll understand why when we get there.

    I don't know if Lady Ochiba hates Toranaga as much as she considers him a threat to her son. (The Taiko's heir). She gives it away to Ichido when she says 'His secret heart is no secret to me." She believes that despite his protestations, he is angling to be Shogun. Anyone who attains that title would, as a matter of course, kill off her son as a threat to his personal power.
     
    Commander Troi and 1987SpaceGuy like this.
  6. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Location:
    Idaho
    Lady Ochiba is someone who has already been through too much, and being the mother of the heir in a country where every Daimyo is vying for power, it will never end for her and she knows it. As Roy said in Bladerunner, 'it's a terrible thing to live in fear.' Her son will always be beset by enemies, all of whom are more experienced and have more resources. It also sounds like she went through extreme measures of some sort in order to be able to conceive the Taiko's heir. This is all unique to this production- IIRC none of it was ever in the book.

    It's like Mariko told Toranaga: Men go to war for any number of reasons; women are always at war. True in all respects for Lady Ochiba.
     
    Commander Troi likes this.
  7. 1987SpaceGuy

    1987SpaceGuy Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2019
    what a memorable "tea house" negotiation that was indeed... for viewers and the production crew
     
    Jedi Marso and Commander Troi like this.
  8. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    Location:
    Mannheim, Germany
    What an unbelievably suspenseful episode - i was so glued to the screen that i did not dare to look away.

    For an episode that is 95% pure dialogue in scenes it gripped me more than an episode full of action - all the scheming and wheeling done by the characters all with their own agendas and problems was just awesome to see. A big shoutout to the writers and the actors for bringing this to the screen in this way.

    I'll hold off on specifics until you all had the chance to watch it but i can only say it is one of the best shows in recent memory i've seen and i know that i repeat myself ;)
     
  9. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Location:
    Idaho
    I probably won't get to see this one until late tomorrow night but I'm already starting to gnash and froth in anticipation.
     
  10. Ridcully

    Ridcully Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Even more tension.....haha it is sugoi indeed!
     
  11. 1987SpaceGuy

    1987SpaceGuy Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2019
    tense-character and plot juggling-episode.
    Even if it's just 3 episodes left, I hate waiting a week for the continuation.

    Cannons + Blackthorne, "his" ship and the big enemy wood ship close by... Seriously I'm going to be super disappointed if we don't have more cannon blasts, on water and elsewhere.

    Mariko still being ice cold indifferent/emotionless towards her husband :hugegrin: - still holding out hope she's gonna end him - one way (physical) or another (psychical).

    Ha, the Tea House lady owner has the smarts, she's on the successful path with her "business idea" if my Japan trip memory from prior Covid is right...
    Doubt it, but it would be nice if these brilliant ladies will play a part in the show's conclusion as either a hidden or sudden emerging power/ally/rival.
    I can't really believe either Toranaga has not one more ace up his sleeve somehow.

    lol Toranaga's son - I haven't laughed so hard at a character death since Justified's 21 foot rule
    tragic, but funny AF :guffaw:

     
  12. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    Location:
    Mannheim, Germany
    So hard to comment on your posting without spoiling major upcoming plot points :lol:

    I have forgotten most of the book details but remember the 80s show well and i am constantly surprised how different the new one is. The basic plot points are still there but the characters are so much more fleshed out or have much more screen time than in the old show and i love it.
     
    John Clark likes this.
  13. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Location:
    Idaho
    Snuck in this latest episode sooner than I thought I'd be able.

    Not much to say about this one. AFAIK, there was very little in this episode that was actually in the story. I'm well into my re-read but a long way to go before I get back around to this point.
     
  14. the G-man

    the G-man Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Location:
    to your immediate right
    I much prefer shows that don't dump all their episodes at once. It makes it much easier to avoid spoilers from people who binge something over a single day while still allowing the option to discuss the show as its watched. It's kind of a return to "watercooler" TV.
     
  15. 1987SpaceGuy

    1987SpaceGuy Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2019
    It can be "watercooler" TV-like without the binge and without having to wait a week...
    a new episode every night aka event week(s).

    Unfortunately it's a seldom used format vs the other two.
    Business wise the weekly format makes more sense for the streamers though.
     
  16. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Location:
    Idaho
    I'm kind of torn. If I want to binge, I want MOAR NOW!

    But there is something to what you say about the week-by-week discussions. It adds a social aspect of it to have that slow burn of conversations about individual episodes versus a 'well, that sucked/was awesome!' one and done kind of post.
     
  17. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    You found it funny? It devastated me. I felt so sorry for him. Such a stupid way to go.
     
  18. the G-man

    the G-man Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Location:
    to your immediate right
    I can understand that sometimes but at this point in my life, I can't necessary watch TV every night.
     
    1987SpaceGuy likes this.
  19. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    Location:
    Mannheim, Germany
    Yeah that came sudden and stupid but sometimes deaths do come like this, especially the Darwin Award candidates.

    I feel sorry for the poor guy. He has a brilliant father, who can be extremely ruthless and very vocal about his opinion. He must have felt immense pressure to prove himself to his father but his eagerness blinded him and made him choose the wrong course of action believing it would win him glory and his father's respect. If he had only been quiet, observed everything he can and learned he might have been still alive.
     
    1987SpaceGuy and Commander Troi like this.
  20. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    The sounds they had him making... stuff of nightmares over the calming water.