new Shogun adaptation coming...

Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by arch101, Jan 31, 2021.

  1. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Yes, most likely. I've seen the original miniseries in both English and French. They kept the Japanese dialogue in both versions. Not using actual Portuguese and Spanish was a big help, since the French dialogue wasn't too complicated for me to follow. I don't know more than a few words of Japanese, so that part didn't make a difference.
     
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  2. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Finished the first two episodes of the new Shogun miniseries. Although normally leery of remakes, especially the past few years, I have to say that this new version exceeds the original in every respect. Much of what was 'told instead of shown' in the original is being integrated into the early episodes to give the viewer the backstory to understand the motivations of the Japanese characters. The casting is superb. In this day and age, I can't think of any Japanese actor other than Hiroyuki Sanada to succeed Toshiro Mifune in the role of Toronaga. Cosmo Jarvis, the actor picked to play Blackthorne, is nailing it. The character is based loosely on the first Englishman to reach Japan, William Adams, just as Toronaga is a fictional stand-in for the real-life Tokugawa Ieyasu. The book is being advertised during commercial breaks, which is fitting- all of Clavell's asian novels are top tier reading. Highly recommend this to either casual viewers or fellow Japanophiles like myself.
     
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  3. Starbrow

    Starbrow Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Didn't realised how tiny Toda Mariko ( Anna Sawai) was until they put her in to the same frame as Father Martin Alvito (Tommy Bastow). He looked like a giant.

    Interesting but very brutal show. Lots of beheading, assasinations and even cooked one sailor alive.

    Got me curios, the part where church controled Japan, is that fiction or true historical records? Did they really spread christian faith in order to gain control over other countries?
     
  4. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They started to, but once Tokugawa Ieyasu became Shogun he banished all westerners from Japan, and the practice of any branch of Christianity went underground for a few centuries. Japan was not re-opened to the west until the 19th Century and the Meiji Restoration.
     
  5. wayoung

    wayoung Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm enjoying it so far but it's like a speed run of the book.

    Which makes sense, because the book is like 1200 pages and the audiobook is 54 hours long.

    I've seen a lot of comments online about the brutality in it and all I can think is that they actually toned it down a ton from the book. Blackthornes desperation and knifes edge of life or brutal death was a big source of tension in the novel that is lacking a bit in this adaptation. It's their, but not to the same extent.

    I agree with the confusion regarding languages. I understand that since Blackthorne speaks Dutch, Portugese, and English that they're all being represented as English in the show but it's a little confusing over what is being spoken. Especially with the closes captioning on, saying "In English" when he's actually speaking Portuguese "in universe" and we're just hearing it in English, which happened in the scene where Blackthorne meets Toronaga. I'm wondering if they're gonna pull a 13th warrior and as he learns Japanese the Japanese will turn English as well.

    Yes, the CGI is obvious in places, especially landscapes, but it's still a TV show even with its massive budget. It's not gonna match blockbuster movie CGI.

    Looking forward to the rest of the series!
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2024
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  6. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Basically, after Columbus and the other explorers started finding parts of North and South America plus islands, Spain and Portugal divvied the world between themselves, agreeing on who got which half (or at least that was the plan). They didn't bother asking anyone else's opinion, least of all the people they wanted to convert and conquer.
     
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  7. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

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    I wasn't sure about this (I've never read the book or seen the original miniseries) but we decided to check it out. It's far more enjoyable than I expected. The acting and set/costume work are top notch. I've already learned a bunch of history I didn't know.
     
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  8. Roundabout

    Roundabout Commander Red Shirt

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    I was surprised how combative and foul mouthed Blackthorn was during opening scenes.

    Then he was urinated on. That, I remember happened in the first miniseries as well. It was quite a dramatic opening sequence of events.

    I am definitely going to watch the rest of the miniseries.
     
  9. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, IIRC, Omi-san peed on Blackthorne after the latter made an ill-mannered verbal remark akin to "I piss on you" or "I piss on your whole country" or something like that. It was handled better in the original miniseries than here. Richard Chamberlain did a great job of expressing Blackthorne's humiliation and rage, but it set the stage for how much he had changed when he later was gifted the geisha's contract and gifted it in turn to Omi-san, as he and the Geisha were in love.
     
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  10. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Admiral Admiral

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    I don’t think I saw the original but have enjoyed the first two episodes a lot. Almost shades of Game of Thrones (minus the fantasy) with the competing factions and the need to watch closely or be totally lost. The cast are very good, but I’m finding Cosmo Jarvis’ voice and/or accent to be very distracting; I’d only previously seen him in a very good film called Good With Horses, where he was so good as an Irish character that I assumed he was Irish. But in this, he sounds like he’s impersonating Tom Hardy - it’s taking a lot of getting used to. Still, I’m sure I will get used to it.

    The book is currently 99p to buy on kindle in the U.K., so I bought it today.
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Wiki says he was raised in England (Devon). I asume it's his natural accent.
     
  12. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Admiral Admiral

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    I’m not sure if it’s his accent or the way of speaking. It sounds too forced, like a put-on posh accent or diction. But, yeah, maybe that’s just how he talks, IDK.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I like Jarvis' voice. It reminds me of Michael Wincott, another actor with a distinctive, raspy voice.

    So far I'm loving this miniseries. I read the book a few years ago (also loved it) but I never did get around to watching the '80s miniseries, so I can't compare the two. But judging it strictly on its own merits, I'm really pleased with what I've seen so far.
     
  14. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    God damn what a brilliant 3rd episode ( as expected).

    Just not to spoil anything for those who haven't seen the 1980 show or read the book

    I just love the wheeling and dealing going on in this episode as everyone is making their moves and are immediately countered.

    Toranaga escapes with luck and some big help from Blackthorne only to be ambushed - cue in major asshole but true badass Samurai Buntaro. Killing a half dozen guys on the pier and then resigning to his fate while receiving one of the highest honors - his lord bowing to him out of respect and admiration.

    Cut to the political storyline and Hiromatsu delivering one of the coolest Fuck You's to his enemies in diplomatic speech - the stage is set for war and Toranaga is already preparing.

    I just love the final scene of Blackthorne showing Toranaga how to dive into water and they finally dive together ( we'll ignore the one small cloud in the sky that is the bad back projection special effect that really takes you out for a short while. Location shooting is expensive i know and i can only guess they had to cut corners somewhere.
     
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  15. 1987SpaceGuy

    1987SpaceGuy Captain Captain

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    badassery all around.

    what a fun and entertaining episodes with little twists and backstabbing at every tree/corner....

    the
    "you need 5 to vote, but are only 4"
    is probably the most badass, epic, trolling, cool FU I've ever seen in any kind of media. :rofl: :cool:
    I stopped the episode and re-watched it about 5 times, before continuing.

    I think I forget/oversee a couple of plot lines and schemes, but at this time I don't want to look up the family trees and character descriptions - at least for the initial viewing out of fear of spoilering myself lots of details.

    the characters (and acting talent) as well as most visuals (clothes, weapons, actual sets, lightning etc.) are done so well, full of cool details, that I gladly give them a pass on the VFX of the aerial cities and nature shots - when it's noticeable at times.
    Doesn't hinder the enjoyment from this show to me though.

    some questions
    • the poor lady who got the 2 boxes of remains - did we see her husband die? - was it the sword self impaling warrior?
    • Was she instructed to pick up the Samurai Katanas? for a vengeance kill order down the road?
    • Toranaga's old man Hiromatsu? who delivered the epic FU - is in what role/relation to him again? and in what relation to the 2 box lady (father, uncle)?
    • Was the kid of Mariko - and the shitty, but brave and now likely death husband/father warrior - left behind at Kyoto Osaka temple castle where the 4 other vying for control "board of lords"?
    • and what about the old lady who switched places with Toranaga?
    • are those "Toranago hostages" now free to leave?
     
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  16. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Moderator

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    I'm really liking this show. I wasn't originally even sure about watching, but my Hubby and I both love all things Japanese, so we thought we'd give it a shot.

    Wonderful twists and turns this episode! Toranaga has obviously survived so long by being smarter than everyone else. Blackthorne certainly has chutzpa! Also, I love the insults he and Rodrigues were spewing back and forth.
     
  17. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    some questions
    • the poor lady who got the 2 boxes of remains - did we see her husband die? - was it the sword self impaling warrior? - Yes, that was him and his son was killed too.
    • Was she instructed to pick up the Samurai Katanas? for a vengeance kill order down the road? I don't remember something about the Katanas but there is no vengeance killing unless your lord approves and i don't remember Toranaga giving such an approval
    • Toranaga's old man Hiromatsu? who delivered the epic FU - is in what role/relation to him again? and in what relation to the 2 box lady (father, uncle)? Hiromatsu is his chief advisor and general to Toranaga. Fujiko ( 2 box lady) is Hiromatsu's granddaughter.
    • Was the kid of Mariko - and the shitty, but brave and now likely death husband/father warrior - left behind at Kyoto Osaka temple castle where the 4 other vying for control "board of lords"? Yes they were. They are now hostages and at least Hiromatsu, being privy to Toranaga's plan to escape, knew the implications but they are Samurai and willing to die at a moment's notice in service to their lord.
    • and what about the old lady who switched places with Toranaga? She remained to for the same reason i mentioned above.
    • are those "Toranago hostages" now free to leave? For sure not. Ishido will be furious and it'll take great restraint from him to not order them to their death but keep them as pawns to move against Toranaga. Then again Toranaga is as ruthless as they come and if he has no other option he will sacrifice them. Such is the way of ancientJ apan during the Samurai era.
     
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  18. wayoung

    wayoung Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I haven't seen it yet, a friend without Disney wants to watch it so she was supposed to come yesterday to catch up and then new today. But she had to cancel last night so it may not be until next week. I may have to watch it without her....

    Fomo is strong everytime I see a notification for this thread
     
  19. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    John Rhys-Davies played Rodriguez in the 80's version and was an absolute scene-stealer with the role. Larger than life in every way, and his bluster made it believable that he could survive around the ever-so-touchy samurai caste.
     
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  20. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Finally saw the third ep. Interesting the small changes in this version that parallel the 1980 version. IIRC, Rodriguez saves Blackthorne not by yielding the right of way from another ship, but feigning outrage and throwing him overboard, where he could swim back to Toranaga and his allies and be free of the Captain General.

    I also felt the 1980 Blackthorn's acting of mental lunacy was far more realistic than this version, in which he feigns umbrage and actually lays hands on a samurai. IRL that probably would have gotten him cut in two rather suddenly.