Neelix & Kes

[StardustSteph]

I can only imagine I am not the only person who finds this couple extremely annoying.

I've been re-watching VOY and I'm on season 2 now. What is the point of Neelix & Kes' relationship? They don't even seem like a couple at all, at least on Kes' part she seems to just bock Neelix out when ever he opens his mouth which I totally understand. Hearing Neelix call Kes "sweetie" is like nails on a chalk board to me. I cringe it just sounds so awkward. Is it just me or Neelix seems like Kes' cooky uncle or dad not anything like a boyfriend? It's just a very bizarre relationship that is totally irrelevant to everything at least from what I am seeing at this point I don't remember later episodes.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Her freejack dumped him and they both let it abide, or we never saw the actual dumping.

Besides, separate bedrooms.

A nonsexual relationship or more than one soiled mattress.

 

[Lynx]

I think that the relationship had some value to start with, at least in the first season and I can imagine why the two of them did have a relationship.

Neelix rescued Kes from the Kazon because he was in love with her. Of course, she saw him as some hero and that's the way the relationship started. Not that unrealistic. Things like that has happened before and I do guess that there was a great affection between both of them which is not that unrealistic either, due to the events that brought them together.

But in the long run it was doomed. It started to break down as soon as Voyager left Ocampa space. Both of them developed in different ways. Kes found it very easy to adapt to the life on Voyager. She got new friends, got an interest in medical studies and agriculture and in that way created a new life for herself on Voyager. Neelix wanted to be useful and important in all ways so he made himself a cook and Morale Officer. Kes and neelix simply drifted apart.

Besides that, they were very different in manners and ways of being and I guess that Neelix's jealousy and over-protection was the main reason for the breakup.

So I can see the relationship, why it started and why it finally broke up. Compared with some other relationships in Star Trek, this one at least had some reasons.

Te sad thing is that they couldn't come up with a decent break up. The one we saw in "Warlord" was simply stupid. The break-up should have taken place after "Parturition" in season 2, during 4-5 episodes and been more carefully explained.

 

[You_Guyz]

They should have broken up much earlier, the relationship as Lynx said did make some sense to begin with but they stayed together for too long.
As for the characters themselves, I like them both very much.

 

[DevilEyes]

I can only imagine I am not the only person who finds this couple extremely annoying.

I've been re-watching VOY and I'm on season 2 now. What is the point of Neelix & Kes' relationship? They don't even seem like a couple at all, at least on Kes' part she seems to just bock Neelix out when ever he opens his mouth which I totally understand. Hearing Neelix call Kes "sweetie" is like nails on a chalk board to me. I cringe it just sounds so awkward. Is it just me or Neelix seems like Kes' cooky uncle or dad not anything like a boyfriend? It's just a very bizarre relationship that is totally irrelevant to everything at least from what I am seeing at this point I don't remember later episodes.

You're certainly not the only one. The relationship was completely implausible - unless you presume that he had a crush on her and rescued her, and she was very young and inexperienced and looked up to him as a hero as a result. But it doesn't explain why they didn't break up much earlier. It didn't even seem like a real relationship, you are right that he seemed more like an uncle to her than a boyfriend. They had no chemistry, she seemed more interested in the Doctor, and it was difficult to see what she would see in Neelix especially since he was super-annoying around her - jealous, possessive, patronizing.

As for the character of Neelix in general, he got less annoying once she dumped him. But the main problem with him is that his role on Voyager just didn't make sense. At first he was supposed to be their guide to the Delta Quadrant, but his (already questionable) usefulness in that respect soon evaporated. He could have been OK as a recurring character, a goofy civilian they decided to take in and who cooked, organized parties, took care of the kids and such stuff. They could still have an occasional episode about his background that would reveal his dark past and pain behind the over-cheery facade (his centric episodes were good - "Jetrel", "Mortal Coil" etc.). But the way they had him go on missions, attend the important meetings with the senior officers, participate in decision making, and the way they shoved him into each damn storyline, just didn't make any sense, and it made Voyager - the ship and the show - hard to take seriously, with this useless kooky civilian treated as a crucial member of the crew.

 

[You_Guyz]

Haha I agree, it was completely laughable how he attended senior staff meetings in the later seasons.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The later seasons?

What about the second or third episode when janeway sitting at the head of the table for her senior staff snarled at him "What are you doing here?" and the little hedghog insisted that as Moral Officer, that he was head of his department and not only a senior member of her crew but arguably the most important member of her...

 

[dauntless]

These two names mean only one thing to me.

Murder suicide pact.

 

[Lynx]

Without being rude to Neelix, in fact I really like him, my theory is that Neelix did have a problem, probably caused by the events surrounding the death of his family.

As we all know, Neelix's family was killed when the Haakonians used their metreon cascade against Rinax. Of course this terrible event affected Neelix deeply.

According to the book "Pathways", Neelix did have a drug problem after that for some time, constantly inhaling Rhuludian Crystals which probably made him feel better and forget the pain when he was high on that stuff. he was eventually cured from his addiction with the help of his friend Wixiban.

Instead he turned his energy on work, he did work as some sort of junk trader for a long time before he met Kes and the Voyager crew.

When he joined the Voyager crew, I guess that his urge to feel useful and important was his way to deal with the trauma caused by the death of his family and so was also his attempts to cheer up everyone. By making people smile and cheer them up, he could forget his own pain which was still there deep inside him. By using the talent he had for cooking, he could put down his soul in that work and by doing so, he was repressing possible attacks of depression and bad mood, not to mention that he found himself useful and important by being the one responsible for the welfare of the crew when it came to food.

Unfortunately Neelix's neuroses (if we can call them that) made him overdo a lot of things and over-react to a lot of things too. Just like his futile attempts to cheer up Tuvok, not wanting to realize that Tuvok, as a Vulcan, weren't able to cheer up and smile in the way that Neelix desperately wanted.

Instead, some of Neelix's actions had the opposite effect, like the romance with Kes. After falling in love with Kes, he became so anxious that he should loose her too that he became over-jealous and over-protective which led to him losing her too because of that over-protection and jealousy. His attempts to cheer up people sometimes made him annoying for some crewmembers as well.

I guess that the reason for Janeway accepting Neelix in his self-made role as cook and morale officer was because Janeway realized what was behind it all, that by keeping Neelix busy and make him feel important, it would be easier for Neelix to deal with whatever went on behind the surface and it would make Neelix feel a whole lot better too.

 

[Akiraprise]

Besides that, they were very different in manners and ways of being and I guess that Neelix's jealousy and over-protection was the main reason for the breakup.

This was very annoying in the early seasons.
Kes was cool, I always liked her. Neelix, not so much.

 

[Kai Winn]

Besides that, they were very different in manners and ways of being and I guess that Neelix's jealousy and over-protection was the main reason for the breakup.

This was very annoying in the early seasons.
Kes was cool, I always liked her. Neelix, not so much.

well, the relationship lasted for most of kes' life, certainly the equivalent of reaching our golden wedding. dunno what neelix saw in this dull person. watched caretaker earlier this week again, and quite liked neelix' introduction, while kes was bland from the begining.
anyway, lets be grateful neither ocampan nor talaxian cultures were explored in depth, that would have made boring episodes.

 

[Lynx]

^^
I don't find neither f them "dull", on the contrary, both were very interesting characters.

And I would have loved to see more of the Ocampa and the Talaxians.

In fact, the chapters about both Kes and neelix and their lives before Voyager are among the most interesting in the book "Pathways" written by Jeri Taylor.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But the spirit of any work usually runs away from the authorgiven enough or even any time, just like children scare the hell out of their parents when they start talking back and bringing home boys with piercings.

I doubt not that most of my supposition would horrify the actual production team behind Voyager, but if I was allowed to yell loud enough, I'm sure I could convince some of them that they were subconsciously unleashing a few monsters from their subconscious which where clearly obvious to anyone watching their show with a keen interest.

 

[exodus]

I can only imagine I am not the only person who finds this couple extremely annoying.

I've been re-watching VOY and I'm on season 2 now. What is the point of Neelix & Kes' relationship? They don't even seem like a couple at all, at least on Kes' part she seems to just bock Neelix out when ever he opens his mouth which I totally understand. Hearing Neelix call Kes "sweetie" is like nails on a chalk board to me. I cringe it just sounds so awkward. Is it just me or Neelix seems like Kes' cooky uncle or dad not anything like a boyfriend? It's just a very bizarre relationship that is totally irrelevant to everything at least from what I am seeing at this point I don't remember later episodes.

He called her "Sweeting", not "Sweetie".
Weird, I know but I guess that was supposed to be something alien.

However, their relationship was supposed to resemble "Beauty & the Beast". So I guess their relationship was supposed to be odd & one sided. Neelix was the brutish oaf, with no friends or family. So he lacked social graces but in her he found solace. His jealousy was to represent how he kept Beauty locked away in his personal tower, too love and keep all to himself. Too him, Kes was family and a link to the humanity within him.

Kes was beauty, the educated beautiful girl trapped in a world of bordom seeking escape and adventure. Neelix was not only her capture but her savior as well. She was meant to use her compassion & wisdom to make him a better man. If you watch closely when Kes does speak to Neelix, she does so slowly as not to bruise his ego, while teaching him something in return.

After Kes leaves, you'll notice Neelix beings to pick up her better qualities, allowing him in return to be a type of ships councelor by becoming a sounding board for Janeway, Torres, Paris & sometimes Tuvok. Another part of Neelix' maturity is when he feels he's capable of caring for Niomi as her Godfather.

Neelix attended senior officer staff meetings because he was the ships embassidor and in-charge of trade negotiations. Eps. like "Living Witness", "Hope & Fear" & "Raven" showed us that natives of the Delta Quad. were afraid and mistrusting of Voyager. They wanted nothing to do with them. However, Neelix being a native species of the quad. himself, he was less likely to stir up suspicion and his friendly demeanor put others at ease. So it was better for trade negotiations to put him in his ship and send him off to get supplies, than having Starfleet officers in uniforms beam down and raise a panic. Neelix is also in charge of the ships inventory, freeing up other crewman to stay focused on their jobs. So this is what makes Neelix a valuable member of the crew & important to have at staff meetings.

 

[DevilEyes]

Neelix attended senior officer staff meetings because he was the ships embassidor and in-charge of trade negotiations. Eps. like "Living Witness", "Hope & Fear" & "Raven" showed us that natives of the Delta Quad. were afraid and mistrusting of Voyager. They wanted nothing to do with them. However, Neelix being a native species of the quad. himself, he was less likely to stir up suspicion and his friendly demeanor put others at ease.

Just like, I presume, if a ship of a Delta Quadrant species came to Alpha Quadrant and along the way picked up some random civilian from one of the many native species, he'd be likely to be trusted and accepted by Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, the Breen, the Ferengi, the Tholians, the Tzenkethi and who knows who else, just for being a native of the Quadrant.

 

[Lynx]

Don't forget that Neelix was the only one on the ship who did have any knowledge and experience about the different species in the Delta Quadrant. Kes had lived in an isolated community and the crew on Voyager, including the Maquis, were newcomers to that part of space.

Even if Neelix's knowledge were sometimes limited and even if he wasn't exactly trusted by all the inhabitants of the Delta Quadrant, he still was their only source of information.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Seska did fine with out him.

Built an empire.

However?

You'd think that if Neelix was so amazing that she would have inducted the lad into her conspiracy, hells bells, all she had to do was off him the freedom and liberty of his enslaved homeworld at the merely the cost of a good laugh from decimating the kazon by throwing them against the Hakonian scrimmage lines.

It's practicaly the same deal Dukat made with the Dominion.

 

[Anwar]

Would the Kazon have been able to pull it off?

 

[Guy Gardener]

With Seska's singlemindedness, Neelix's inside track and stolen Voyager technology if not stolen Voyager itself...

The war was won with the meteron cascade, which turned out to be a clapped out transporter with out focus or an endgame, but with Voyagers transporters which no one had thought of to make any defence against, they could kidnap the entire ruling-class/government, and then move their own people into the gaping power vacuum.

 

[Anwar]

They'd have to fight their way to Talax first through the Haakonian defenses, and then get through whatever planetary defenses there'd be as well.

I'd wonder if Neelix would go through with letting the Kazon have VOY's tech in the first place. It's like the lesser of two evils.