NBA 2014-2015 Season Discussion

[Jedi_Master]

Five in a row for the Bulls, finishing off with 20 point win over the Los Angeles bodies of water.

Look out Eastern Conference. The Bulls are running again.

 

[gblews]

Me being a Kobe "hater" would be just like you being a Kobe "apologist". It makes no sense. My perspective just differs from yours, that's all...

BS. Most of what you've written specifically about Kobe (and the Lakers) has been inaccurate or just plain incorrect whether characterized as your opinion or not. I've pointed out some of your inaccuracies. I asked you the reason for, (and to explain), at least one of your opinions about Kobe, and you simply didn't respond, leading me to believe that you were just repeating something you read or heard somewhere.

So I'll accept the title of apologist, because I do defend Kobe against your (inaccurate) criticisms, and I'll assume you accept the designation as a hater.

Incidently, your only "accurate" criticism of Kobe this season, from what I have seen, is that he has been taking too many shots. But at this point in his career, this is like proclaiming that "the sun is hot". On lakersground.net, the meme for this is always, "Kobe shots too much". That's how much of a cliche it is. Then the discussion moves on to something more substantial, like the reasons his usage has risen or the like.

When I see this offered as a major criticism of Kobe, I always assume I'm dealing with someone who just isn't aware of what, and where the criticism should be directed. If you ever do figure it out, believe me, I'll be right there to discuss it and probably agree with you.

Swagalicious was Swaggy's own invention, just like the Driving Miss Daisy nonsense. Is he a hater too?

Did you not understand what I meant when I wrote, "passive/aggressive"?

 

[Borgminister]

Boogie!

Although my son and I nearly witnessed defeat being snatched from the jaws of victory...

 

[Captrek]

Great game last night with the Suns beating the Lakers despite the Lakers going 12-20 from downtown. Swaggy was 4-6, hitting threes with defenders draped all over him. He and Ronnie Price just couldn't miss in the first half as the Lakers built an eight-point lead.

As for Kobe: 10 pts, 4-10 FG, 8 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steals, 5 turnovers, and a -9. I guess it means you're pretty special if you flirt with a triple-double and it's considered a bad game by your standards.

 

[Borgminister]

What an idiot Vivek and company are... managed to take an improving Kings squad and completely demoralize them. That new venue might be downtown Sacto's cemetery...

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Big three team trade between Cleveland, Oklahoma City, and New York. Knicks get three guys they'll cut to help tank. Meanwhile, the Sixers beat the Cleveland Cavaliers (a decimated Cleveland team, of course) and moved ahead of them in the standings (making New York the bigger tankers).

But, leaving all that aside, Grantland does a good analysis that suggests this might be a win-win-win deal

You hear it now and then from team higher-ups: “Our village can raise one child.” Every team thinks its culture is the one strong enough to soothe a knucklehead player away from his bad habits and into a team-first approach.

The Cavaliers and Knicks gave up on three such problem children yesterday in hosting the NBA’s version of a key party with Oklahoma City — a three-way deal filled with high hair, insane shot selection, and players prone to audacious proclamations. Needless to say it broke Twitter — and not in the way anyone ever expected J.R. Smith to break Twitter.

And yet, get past the funky characters involved and you can see a three-way deal that makes some sense for each team. The Cavaliers get wing depth and a 3-and-D player without doing much further damage to their already damaged cap sheet; the Knicks get salary relief and rid themselves of two players they no longer wanted; and the Thunder enter uncharted tax territory by gambling on a wing talent with a season and a half left on his cost-controlled rookie deal. Win-win-win? Maybe. Let’s dig deeper.

 

[gblews]

Big three team trade between Cleveland, Oklahoma City, and New York. Knicks get three guys they'll cut to help tank. Meanwhile, the Sixers beat the Cleveland Cavaliers (a decimated Cleveland team, of course) and moved ahead of them in the standings (making New York the bigger tankers).

But, leaving all that aside, Grantland does a good analysis that suggests this might be a win-win-win deal

...and the Thunder enter uncharted tax territory by gambling on a wing talent with a season and a half left on his cost-controlled rookie deal. Win-win-win? Maybe. Let’s dig deeper.

The Thunder should have been willing to go into luxury tax territory a few seasons back, when James Harden was still on what was then, a potential champinship team. They made a dumb move letting him go and they are still trying to fix it. So ironic, now here they are finally realizing that it costs actual "money" in order to win an NBA championship. Ya live and learn.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Best assist ever?

 

[Borgminister]

Thunder are truly in a malaise if the Kings can cream them...

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I don't entire agree with this (at a minimum, I think it's too harsh), but I thought it was worth considering. There's no doubt that Kobe Bryant has made many enemies in his career and the attitude he sometimes has is part of it. But I feel many of the comparisons to Jordan are overstated.

Wolf on the Rock: The Ludicrous Glorious Doom of Kobe Bryant

Kobe never seemed as dominant as Jordan because, unlike Mike, he refused to recruit us into the construction of his dominance. He couldn’t trust us with it. He had to do it himself, the way he did everything. This made him fascinating, not that he cared. He was a narcissist, but a strangely impersonal narcissist, like a general whose army happens to be deployed inside himself. Over the years, his success, his vivid bitterness, and his adherence to his own impossible standards created this confounding paradox: He made misanthropy look like a key ingredient in a team sport. Or, to see it from the other side: He made a team game look like a viable path to a life of chosen solitude. This was true off the court, too; even his raw, late-night Facebook post after his Achilles tear in April 2013 was about regaining the will to conquer. He could post a video of himself playing the “Moonlight Sonata” and somehow seem more remote. He was America’s social hermit.

Which was fine, of course, as long as he was winning titles and burying heartless midrange daggers and being named MVP. But defiant artistic remove is a quality whose justification requires constant renewal, and athletes’ careers are short. Kobe is 36; the Lakers are terrible. What happens when the most dramatically isolated superstar in basketball starts to fall apart?

I want to make the case, though, that this season has also been a kind of gift. It’s thrown Kobe’s essential qualities into relief. It’s helped us understand him better. That look of hard, mad, small-eyed determination reads a little more starkly when everything is going to pieces than it does up 12 in the Finals. What were the odds, anyway, that Kobe would end up marooned in such a dramatically perfect situation? A tyrant, he’s facing large-scale rebellion; a loner, he’s surrounded by enemies, on his own team and in every arena he enters. The NBA’s most self-willed star, he’s discovering the limits of what his will can do.

 

[gblews]

I don't entire agree with this (at a minimum, I think it's too harsh), but I thought it was worth considering. There's no doubt that Kobe Bryant has made many enemies in his career and the attitude he sometimes has is part of it. But I feel many of the comparisons to Jordan are overstated.

Wolf on the Rock: The Ludicrous Glorious Doom of Kobe Bryant

Overall, I'de descrbe the article as nothing more than "click bait". But Kobe should take solice in the fact that at 37 years old and 19 seasons, he is still considered viable "click bait". I don't think any single player gets more national attention per capita than Mamba. Considering what he has accomplished, what he has meant to the league and it's flagship franchise, I'de say it's quite understandable.

Couple of things do stand out:

Kobe never seemed as dominant as Jordan because, unlike Mike, he refused to recruit us into the construction of his dominance. He couldn’t trust us with it.

Sounds great but what does it mean. Would love to ask the writer when and where Michael let us in on the "construction of his dominanace". Of the people who OBJECTIVELY feel MJ was the more dominant player, I wonder if any of them believe that MJ's letting us in on it's "construct" had anything to do with icreasing his dominance.

Over the years, his success, his vivid bitterness,

"His vicid bitterness"? I wonder what the writer is referring to here. I wish he had presented some examples.

...and his adherence to his own impossible standards

One of the reasons we love Kobe so much.

Or, to see it from the other side: He made a team game look like a viable path to a life of chosen solitude. This was true off the court, too; even his raw, late-night Facebook post after his Achilles tear in April 2013 was about regaining the will to conquer.

Yet more reasons we love Kobe. This guy truly does not understand Kobe at all.

Which was fine, of course, as long as he was winning titles and burying heartless midrange daggers and being named MVP. But defiant artistic remove is a quality whose justification requires constant renewal, and athletes’ careers are short. Kobe is 36; the Lakers are terrible. What happens when the most dramatically isolated superstar in basketball starts to fall apart?

So, in other words, now that he is nearing the end of his career and is no longer playing on teams with good players, he should stop being himslf?

I want to make the case, though, that this season has also been a kind of gift. It’s thrown Kobe’s essential qualities into relief. It’s helped us understand him better. That look of hard, mad, small-eyed determination reads a little more starkly when everything is going to pieces than it does up 12 in the Finals.

That "look of hard, mad, small-eyed determination" and the psyche behind it were the main reasons we were in the Finals and up by 12 in the fourth quarter. This is still a part of Kobe but, yeah, he is playing on a much lesser team now.

This part of the article was as misleading as it can be:

Even at his peak, Kobe Bryant made greatness look grueling. He had every gift, every natural blessing — but he made having them look hard. He could do whatever he wanted on a basketball court, but being in charge of that kind of skill was exhausting, and the strain showed. It was as if he had to keep the Amazon flowing with nothing but his own force of will.

With this paragraph, the writer reinforces his ignorancce of his subject. Kobe was a gifted athlete, but he got to where he is by working his ass off, not by merely utilizing his "gifts".

Perhaps the writer resents Kobe's dogged determination to outwork his opponents, in addition to being as gifted as he is. Maybe he sees it as gilding the lilly or something. Kobe's on court demeanor was partially dictated by the level of his personal physical sacrifice to prepare himself to play. Kobe had, and still has, an intolerance for those willing to accept the benefits without making the sacrifice to win. The writer appears to see this as a negative. Jordan also had this trait, but as it always seems, when it is Kobe, it is a negative.

This writer has no understanding of Kobe, or kobe's fans, at all.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I don't think it was clickbait. You can certainly disagree with it (and you do), but clickbait is usually something with a vague title like "YOU WON'T BELIEVE THIS" that requires you to click on the link to find out what it's about. This is clearly a criticism of Kobe Bryant that lays out its argument in more detail when you click. It may be wrong, but that doesn't make it clickbait.

I do agree with you that this guy isn't a Kobe fan and is unwilling to credit Kobe for the things that give him his fans. But it's also undeniable there a lot of people who strongly dislike Kobe Bryant and this article explains a lot of those reasons. I think there were far more fans of Michael Jordan who didn't like the Bulls than there are of Kobe Bryant who don't like the Lakers. And I think there are differences in personality between the two that help explain that (I also think it was more in how their personality appeared than what it actually was, but I digress).

My problems with Kobe all have to do with team bias. His comment that he was going to rip out the heart of Philly is hard to get over when it is the only NBA Championship the team has gone to in my lifetime. On the other hand, I like that he has a Philly connection, I like that he hates the Cowboys, I like that he speaks Italian. I hope I've made clear my likes or dislikes of him are unrelated to the article. But I do see where this is coming from.

 

[gblews]

I don't think it was clickbait. You can certainly disagree with it (and you do), but clickbait is usually something with a vague title like "YOU WON'T BELIEVE THIS" that requires you to click on the link to find out what it's about. This is clearly a criticism of Kobe Bryant that lays out its argument in more detail when you click. It may be wrong, but that doesn't make it clickbait.

It's click bait for Kobephiles be they lovers or haters. The article contains nothing substantive and is simply a rehash of recent events and the writer's negative spin and philosophizing on the real meaning of each incident. It is a very typical article for a writer looking to maximize his hits. Articles about Kobe are good for that particularly when they are negative.

I do agree with you that this guy isn't a Kobe fan and is unwilling to credit Kobe for the things that give him his fans. But it's also undeniable there a lot of people who strongly dislike Kobe Bryant and this article explains a lot of those reasons. I think there were far more fans of Michael Jordan who didn't like the Bulls than there are of Kobe Bryant who don't like the Lakers. And I think there are differences in personality between the two that help explain that (I also think it was more in how their personality appeared than what it actually was, but I digress).

That Kobe is polarizing is true without question. I think it started when he came into the league with more confidence than any athlete I had ever seen. Even as a rookie Kobe thought he wasn't far from greatness, and it showed. People resented that. Players and some coaches did as well. But, truth be told, Kobe was right, he wasn't all that far away and proved it in a few years.

But the thing that first got my admiration was his willingness to work, which is an admission that you aren't "all that". Kobe was also willing to learn from the best, Jordan, Peyton, sought several players for advise. But if you wanted, you could put a negative spin on that too.

I'm honestly not prepared to say this writer doesn't like Kobe. It may be that he simply knows how to get page views.

My problems with Kobe all have to do with team bias. His comment that he was going to rip out the heart of Philly is hard to get over when it is the only NBA Championship the team has gone to in my lifetime.

Okay, but why? As I recall, it was at the end of game 1 and Kobe and AI were talking smack to each other. As an aside, I don't know if you know this, but Kobe and AI are really cool with each other now.

I hope I've made clear my likes or dislikes of him are unrelated to the article.

Acknowledged. It is possible to dislike a player yet remain objective about that player. This is in direct opposition to "haters" who are unable to to separate their dislike for a player from their evaluation of that player's game or actions in general.

 

[Borgminister]

What a difference a Kawhi makes...

 

[Lexx Shrapnel]

What a difference a Kawhi makes...

Can he see properly by now?

 

[gblews]

Kevin Ding is reporting over at Bleacherreport that an MRI has shown Kobe has a torn right rotator cuff. He could possibly come back from this injury before the regular season is over, but the question is, should he. Ding also speculating that if he is out for the season it could be a deterrant to landing good free agents this off season.

For me, the news has a silver lining; it further ensures we will hold onto our 1st round pick this year. As of last night, I believe, it was announced during the Pelicans' game, that we had the 4th worst record in the league.

Does the Atlanta Hawks' 13 game win streak, or whatever it is now, mean they are a serious championship contender? No. But because they play in the east, it really might mean they are a serious contender for the conference finals.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

The 2015 All Star Game starters have been announced:

West:

F-Anthony Davis
F-Blake Griffin
C-Marc Gasol
G-Stephen Curry
G-Kobe Bryant

East:

F-LeBron James
F-Carmelo Anthony
C-Pau Gasol
G-Kyle Lowry
G-John Wall

The fans got it wrong in a couple of places; Kobe shouldn't be starting (and won't be because of his rotator cuff), and Carmelo shouldn't be either. I'd probably rather see Aldridge starting than Griffin, but he'll likely be selected as a reserve, so it's not that big a deal.

--Sran

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Obviously, whether a team is successful is less of a factor. Carmelo is still a fun player. Kobe's injuries make it unlikely that he would play, but he's still one of the greatest ever, so I can see why he would make an All-Star game as long as he hasn't retired.

Obviously, there's a lot of room for debate, but I don't think this is all that bad.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^It's definitely an improvement over past seasons; at least fans seem to be recognizing impact players on small-market teams, which wasn't happening before. That said, either James Harden or Klay Thompson deserves to start over Kobe (and likely will).

--Sran

 

[Borgminister]

All-Star selections are ultimately meaningless.